Halloween

edited December 1969 in Coptic Orthodox Church
I would like to knOw what the church's view on coptic children celebrating Halloween is?

Should they be allowed to?

I'm assuming that Halloween is non Christian.
«13

Comments

  • + Irini nem ehmot,

    I can just hear the sound of a can of worms opening as we speak.
  • + Irini nem ehmot,

    It was only a matter of time. And the can opens further.
  • lol i vote to keep it closed. Lock topic before its too late hahah!
  • please let's keep it close. let's just say, as i do to my friends "i just don't do halloween"...bass keda.
  • The Church has spoken on the matter - just as St. John the Short watered the piece of wood and obedience, let us do the same. Even if you aren't convinced of the reasoning behind the decision, for the sake of obedience and love, do not celebrate Halloween. Simple as that.
  • Hi everyone, thank you very much for all your comments. I don't know what the problem is but I think everyone agrees everyone else.

    Thank you also for the link you sent. This is exactly what I was looking for.

    I think it is up to everyone of us here to distribute this link to our friends on Facebook.

    Indeed, we should not be celebrating any satanistic event. 
  • Phew! Another angry Tasbeha.org forum debate diverted!
  • + Irini nem ehmot,

    With all respect to His Grace, the article presents a great deal of misinformation and is very poorly referenced (i.e. not referenced at all). The Wikipedia articles on Samhain and Halloween are at least fairly well researched and referenced.

    If you are secure enough in your faith to know that there is nothing 'satanic' about Halloween, then take your kids trick or treating. If you aren't secure enough in your faith, don't. If you prefer attending the events at Church, feel free. If you don't prefer attending, then don't.

    FYI: Just because a bunch of neopagans in this modern day run around dressing up in black and listening to stupid emo music honour Halloween as some major 'feast' does not make it a satanic holiday. Educate yourselves on the history of certain feasts instead of listening to people 'cry wolf' as it were. A lot of people think Harry Potter is evil too. Those tend to be people who haven't pick up a book in their life.

    In the end, St. Paul says it best:
    [quote=Romans 14]The Law of Liberty
    1 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. 2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. 3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. 4 Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
    5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written:


          “ As I live, says the LORD,
          Every knee shall bow to Me,
          And every tongue shall confess to God.”

    12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.
    The Law of Love
     
    14 I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 15 Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil; 17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18 For he who serves Christ in these things is acceptable to God and approved by men.
    19 Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense. 21 It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak. 22 Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.
  • sigh I knew I spoke too soon  :(
  • [quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=12513.msg146830#msg146830 date=1319999271]
    + Irini nem ehmot,

    With all respect to His Grace, the article presents a great deal of misinformation and is very poorly referenced (i.e. not referenced at all). The Wikipedia articles on Samhain and Halloween are at least fairly well researched and referenced.

    If you are secure enough in your faith to know that there is nothing 'satanic' about Halloween, then take your kids trick or treating. If you aren't secure enough in your faith, don't. If you prefer attending the events at Church, feel free. If you don't prefer attending, then don't.

    FYI: Just because a bunch of neopagans in this modern day run around dressing up in black and listening to stupid emo music honour Halloween as some major 'feast' does not make it a satanic holiday. Educate yourselves on the history of certain feasts instead of listening to people 'cry wolf' as it were. A lot of people think Harry Potter is evil too. Those tend to be people who haven't pick up a book in their life.

    In the end, St. Paul says it best:
    ...


    Kyphas,

    Do you disagree that we should listen to HG simply out of obedience?
  • [quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=12513.msg146830#msg146830 date=1319999271]
    + Irini nem ehmot,

    With all respect to His Grace, the article presents a great deal of misinformation and is very poorly referenced (i.e. not referenced at all). The Wikipedia articles on Samhain and Halloween are at least fairly well researched and referenced.

    If you are secure enough in your faith to know that there is nothing 'satanic' about Halloween, then take your kids trick or treating. If you aren't secure enough in your faith, don't. If you prefer attending the events at Church, feel free. If you don't prefer attending, then don't.

    FYI: Just because a bunch of neopagans in this modern day run around dressing up in black and listening to stupid emo music honour Halloween as some major 'feast' does not make it a satanic holiday. Educate yourselves on the history of certain feasts instead of listening to people 'cry wolf' as it were. A lot of people think Harry Potter is evil too. Those tend to be people who haven't pick up a book in their life.



    You have already been desensitized to the point of numbness. Halloween has nothing 'satanic' about it?! People running around dressed as goblins and ghosts saying that there is nothing satanic about the day is in itself disturbing. But this how the devil works to deceive the world. A day is put aside to make light of evil and what we don't realize is it that this attitude is not confined to Oct. 31st but spills over into the rest of the year.

    I mean it is utter nonsense and outright foolishness to participate in this day! Who in their right mind dresses up and asks for candy of people on any other day? Why is Oct. 31st any different? Because everyone is doing it?

    But I echo the words of Michael, shouldn't we listen to H.G. out of obedience? This certainly is a fundamental virtue on which the church was founded. Maybe H.G.'s article was not up to your high caliber?

    Check these out: AUDIO & ARTICLE
  • [quote author=Andrew link=topic=12513.msg146848#msg146848 date=1320021058]


    Check these out: AUDIO & ARTICLE



    i read the article. AMAZING.  i completely agree with this priest. if we say to the modern-day "pagans" that we don't celebrate halloween because we're "not from this world"..they'll laugh because on the 364 other days, we act as people of the world. i pray that I, and all Christians, could see how much we've all conformed to the world; that our eyes would be opened to the devil's subtle tricks. Thanks for sharing!!
  • [quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=12513.msg146830#msg146830 date=1319999271]
    + Irini nem ehmot,

    With all respect to His Grace, the article presents a great deal of misinformation and is very poorly referenced (i.e. not referenced at all). The Wikipedia articles on Samhain and Halloween are at least fairly well researched and referenced.

    If you are secure enough in your faith to know that there is nothing 'satanic' about Halloween, then take your kids trick or treating. If you aren't secure enough in your faith, don't. If you prefer attending the events at Church, feel free. If you don't prefer attending, then don't.

    FYI: Just because a bunch of neopagans in this modern day run around dressing up in black and listening to stupid emo music honour Halloween as some major 'feast' does not make it a satanic holiday. Educate yourselves on the history of certain feasts instead of listening to people 'cry wolf' as it were. A lot of people think Harry Potter is evil too. Those tend to be people who haven't pick up a book in their life.

    In the end, St. Paul says it best:
    [quote=Romans 14]The Law of Liberty
    1 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. 2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. 3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. 4 Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
    5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written:


          “ As I live, says the LORD,
          Every knee shall bow to Me,
          And every tongue shall confess to God.”

    12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.
    The Law of Love
     
    14 I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 15 Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil; 17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18 For he who serves Christ in these things is acceptable to God and approved by men.
    19 Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense. 21 It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak. 22 Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.


    Cephas,

    To be perfectly honest with you, I really disagree with your opinion on this. The celebration of Halloween is nothing short of celebrating Satanism.

    This was a pagan festival. Why are we celebrating pagan festivals? The Catholic Pope tried his best to replace it with ALL SAINTS DAY, and yet people still are going around asking for trick or treats??

    What is this?

    This is quite disturbing indeed. The Catholic Church should be thanked for this - they have tried so hard to offer an alternative to this pagan feast (in every way possible). In France, for example, they have an outdoor party called Holy Wins - (to sound like Halloween) so the youth can come and listen to at least Christian music. The Church is open for those who wish to come inside and light a candle.

  • Thoxsasi,

    I think the church should teach was it right, and leave everyone to do as they wish. But I don't agree with having an alternative (all saint's day) for the Satanic feast.

    We've been the same for over 2000 years; I personally don't think it's right to adjust Orthodoxy whenever the culture around us invents new ways to worship Satan.

    And as HGBY stated, there is no "all saint's day" in the Coptic Church, and "any participating with this day is sharing with their feast" (when referring to eating candy or dressing up in costumes). 
  • [quote author=TITL link=topic=12513.msg146873#msg146873 date=1320079601]
    Thoxsasi,

    I think the church should teach was it right, and leave everyone to do as they wish. But I don't agree with having an alternative (all saint's day) for the Satanic feast.

    We've been the same for over 2000 years; I personally don't think it's right to adjust Orthodoxy whenever the culture around us invents new ways to worship Satan.

    And as HGBY stated, there is no "all saint's day" in the Coptic Church, and "any participating with this day is sharing with their feast" (when referring to eating candy or dressing up in costumes).


    There is no All Saints day in the Coptic Church. That's true.

    But I don't understand your point, TITL? I agree and even second what Anba Youssef has written. I was merely saying that the RC tried hard to replace Halloween with All Saints Day.

    What's wrong with having an alternative to Halloween??
  • [quote author=TITL link=topic=12513.msg146873#msg146873 date=1320079601]
    Thoxsasi,

    I think the church should teach was it right, and leave everyone to do as they wish. But I don't agree with having an alternative (all saint's day) for the Satanic feast.

    We've been the same for over 2000 years; I personally don't think it's right to adjust Orthodoxy whenever the culture around us invents new ways to worship Satan.

    And as HGBY stated, there is no "all saint's day" in the Coptic Church, and "any participating with this day is sharing with their feast" (when referring to eating candy or dressing up in costumes).
    (emphasis mine)

    How is offering alternative celebrations adjusting Orthodoxy? The faith and dogma remain the same regardless. . .

    I hope you are aware that for a period (not sure how long) the Church did not celebrate the Nativity but only the Epiphany. Celebrating the Nativity was introduced to combat the celebration of "'the birthday of the unconquered,' the day of the winter solstice and at the same time, in Rome, the last day of the Saturnalia, which had long since degenerated into a week of unbridled carnival."    (Werner Keller, The Bible as History, pg. 331).

    Others claim that it was to replace the feast of the Son of Isis (Goddess of Nature), which was a time of party hard and drinking and basically merriment 

    The Church did not know what day Christ was actually born. . .
  • In my opinion, this is a misconception. I wrote about this in the date of Christmas thread a few months back. Christmas was dated in December because it is 9 months after the Annunciation. The Annunciation, according to popular belief in late antiquity occurred on the Spring vernal equinox or the Ides of March. (No relation to the movie or Shakespeare's play). The Spring equinox was considered the day of creation. That is also why both the Annunciation and the Resurrection feasts are commemorated on Baramahat 29 (which in the Julian Calendar was the spring equinox). I don't think it had anything to do with pagan festivities. This maybe the Roman Catholic reason for Christmas' date, not the Orthodox. Regardless, dating a feast to fight off a pagan holiday is a very weak argument. What does it say about the Church? The Church is insecure in its followers that we need to distract them with Church feasts. This is foolish. Do we need to create a holiday to fight off Ramadan and Eid al fitr? Do we need to create a holiday to fight off holloween? Doesn't the Church date all of our holiest days on what the Bible and tradition tells us?

    This was Remnkemi's response in the Thanksgiving thread.
  • Find me any biblical proof or writings from the father that prove the date of the Annunciation and I will concede.
  • BTW, I am not saying that the Church is creating feasts to combat secular celebrations. I am saying that these feasts exist: It is a fact that Christ was born. When it happened is unclear. It might be the case that you kill two birds with one stone by placing it near a pagan feast. You bring people to celebrate Christ's birth and Incarnation while at the same time drawing people away from participation in foolish and worldly feasts.

  • I haven't done my homework and researched it well enough to know what the church fathers say about this.

    I guess you can ask Remnkemi... he's more educated than I am. ;)
  • [quote author=Andrew link=topic=12513.msg146880#msg146880 date=1320084548]
    Find me any biblical proof or writings from the father that prove the date of the Annunciation and I will concede.

    It's simply 9 month before the Nativity that is always on 29 of Kiahk. I think the Annunciation is 29th baramhat-- it always comes during lent.
  • Its great to see that you are all very Orthodox.

    I cannot say that I understand totally the spiritual context of All Saints Day. As you all correctly point out, its not an orthodox feast (as far as I know).

    I still respect the idea of the Catholic Church at least trying to replace Halloween anyway with an alternative.
  • [quote author=Andrew link=topic=12513.msg146880#msg146880 date=1320084548]
    Find me any biblical proof or writings from the father that prove the date of the Annunciation and I will concede.


    I was going to get to this on my talk about polygamy but I got side-tracked by other things. Sometimes there is no smoking gun proof or reference to a certain belief or act that time has concluded as being "Orthodox" or "un-Orthodox". Yet, it seems that the Fathers were not so "black and white" about the burden of proof for certain actions. Polygamy is one such example. Polygamy is forbidden in St Basil's Canon 80 in His Letter 218 "To Amphilochius, the Canons.". St Basil was aware that there was no biblical or patristic solid proof against polygamy. He writes, "On polygamy the Fathers are silent, as being brutish and altogether inhuman.  The sin seems to me worse than fornication.  It is therefore reasonable that such sinners should be subject to the canons; namely a year’s weeping, three years kneeling and then reception." For something that doesn't have any biblical or patristic support, a 4 year punishment on polygamy seems excessive. The words "it seems to ME" gives us his personal opinion that polygamy is worse than fornication. From this personal opinion, not ground in patristic evidence, the rest of the Christian world agreed and confirmed its stand against polygamy. I believe that the general consensus among the bishops of the 4th century and the Orthodox Church was that polygamy is sinful, even if it was practiced and condoned in the Old Testament.

    The same is probably true for the dating of Nativity and Annunciation and Resurrection. The general consensus among the bishops and the rest of the world is that creation started on the spring equinox and Jesus' conception in the St Mary's womb occurred on March 15 (or Baramhat 29 in the Coptic calendar). 9 months later is Kiahk 29. As supporting evidence, we look at the dating of the Resurrection feast. As a movable feast date, St Demetrius created the Epoch to make sure the Resurrection happened on the Sunday after the first moon after the Jewish Passover. But as a fixed commemoration date, it falls on Baramhat 29 for the same reason. The new creation (as St Paul described it in 1 Corinthians 15) began at the Resurrection and we remember it on Baramhat 29, the same spring equinox. Again there is no smoking gun proof from the Bible or the Fathers why the Annunciation and the Resurrection occur on the same day. I will have to research some more about the Annunciation date but so far this is the general consensus among modern scholars.

  • One more thing I found. St Gregory Thaumaturgus has a work called "Four Homilies" in the Ante-Nicene Fathers Vol 6. The editor puts this note about the homily:
    [This very homily has been cited to prove the antiquity of the festival of the Annunciation, observed, in the West, March 25. But even Pellicia objects that this is a spurious work. The feast of the Nativity was introduced into the East by Chrysostom after the records at Rome had been inspected, and the time of the taxing at Bethlehem had been found. See his Sermon (a.d. 386), beautifully translated by Dr. Jarvis in his Introduction, etc., p. 541. Compare Tertullian, vol. iii. p. 164, and Justin, vol. i. p. 174, this series. Now, as the selection of the 25th of March is clearly based on this, we may say no more of that day. Possibly some Sunday was associated with the Annunciation. The four Sundays preceding Christmas are all observed by the Nestorians in commemoration of the Annunciation.]

    The very same author also mentions some important facts in his History of the Christian Church. Vol 3., Chapter 77, "The Christmas Cycle"
    I gather that it was St John Chrysostom on the Nativity Feast December 25th, 386 AD who advocated separating the Nativity Feast from the Theophany Feast. St John Chyrsostom states uses a registration found in the Roman archives that Christ was born December 25. There is no evidence that this registration existed. But from there the whole world began to celebrate the Feast of Nativity. Philip Schaff also concurs that the Nativity Feast occurred as a "baptism" of the December pagan feasts, something that could not have happened in the first 3 centuries of the Christian world because of the prevalence of pagan worship in the Roman government.

    Schaff states that many fathers, Chrysostom, Gregory of Nyssa, Leo and others, all believed the Nativity fell on December 25th after the winter solstice. These father apparently called Christmas "the birth of Christ, the birth-festival of the unconquered sun" in direct opposition to pagan epigraphs and titles. But, in addition to these titles for Christmas,  "the prevailing opinion of the church in the fourth and fifth centuries, that Christ was actually born on the twenty-fifth of December; and Chrysostom appeals, in behalf of this view, to the date of the registration under Quirinius (Cyrenius), preserved in the Roman archives."

    The Circumcision Feast was also dated in conjunction with "Christian New Year" which "created" on the same day as the Roman pagan New Year. The pagans Romans celebrated New Years with revel, the Christian New Year calls for a day of repentance. "Thus Augustine, in a sermon, [writes]: “Separate yourselves from the heathen, and at the change of the year do the opposite of what they do. They give each other gifts; give ye alms instead. They sing worldly songs; read ye the word of God. They throng the theatre come ye to the church. They drink themselves drunken; do ye fast.” "

    I guess this last patristic quote should resolve this Halloween and Thanskgiving debate. It's ok to have an alternative feast to "baptize" the paganism of the secular feast (whether it is Christmas, Thanksgiving or Halloween) as long as we do the exact opposite of what they do. (In my opinion, history tells us that this doesn't happen. Revel acts continue and overtake the Christian, spiritual message of the feast.)

    Summary:
    1. The Annunciation Feast was considered March 25th by some fathers, most influencial was St Gregory Thaumaturgus. This March 25th date was most likely related to the prevailing Spring equinox and the start of creation theory.
    2. Only the Theophany Feast was celebrated in the 2nd century. The Nativity Feast was separated from the Theophany by St John Chyrsostom in 386 AD
    3. St John believed Christ was physically born on December 25th, which means the Annunciation must be March 25th in Julian Calendar and Kiahk 29 and Baramhat 29 in the respective Coptic/Alexandrian Calendar. It had nothing to do with pagan festivals.
    4. Anthropological similarities and references to pagan feasts can be seen in how Christians celebrated these feasts - there was some sort of pagan similarity (whether a Christmas tree or lighting wax tapers (candles) or drunkenness and gluttony). The fact that these similarities existed (and still exist) shows Christians tended not to follow St Augustine's advice.
    5. Nothing is inherently wrong with baptizing anything pagan, as long as you do the opposite of what they do.

    George
    PS. Dzheremi, you were right all along.
  • [quote author=Michael Boutros link=topic=12513.msg146834#msg146834 date=1320006783]
    [quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=12513.msg146830#msg146830 date=1319999271]
    + Irini nem ehmot,

    With all respect to His Grace, the article presents a great deal of misinformation and is very poorly referenced (i.e. not referenced at all). The Wikipedia articles on Samhain and Halloween are at least fairly well researched and referenced.

    If you are secure enough in your faith to know that there is nothing 'satanic' about Halloween, then take your kids trick or treating. If you aren't secure enough in your faith, don't. If you prefer attending the events at Church, feel free. If you don't prefer attending, then don't.

    FYI: Just because a bunch of neopagans in this modern day run around dressing up in black and listening to stupid emo music honour Halloween as some major 'feast' does not make it a satanic holiday. Educate yourselves on the history of certain feasts instead of listening to people 'cry wolf' as it were. A lot of people think Harry Potter is evil too. Those tend to be people who haven't pick up a book in their life.

    In the end, St. Paul says it best:
    ...


    Kyphas,

    Do you disagree that we should listen to HG simply out of obedience?

    I agree. We should obey our bishops unless they want us to sin against God. HG Bishop Youssef is my bishop and I should obey him in the matter of Halloween. If your bishop has advised against Halloween you should obey. Obedience doesn't have to make any sense.

    As a classic example [of obedience], there is the story in the Sayings of the Desert Fathers about the monk who was told to plant a dry stick in the sand and to water it daily. So distant was the spring from his cell that he had to leave in the evening to fetch the water and he only returned in the following morning. For three years he patiently fulfilled his abba's command. At the end of this period, the stick suddenly put forth leaves and bore fruit. The abba picked the fruit, took it to the church, and invited the monks to eat, saying, "Take and eat the fruit of obedience."
  • Holloween was originaly a pagan holiday. The pagans would sacrafice livestock to their gods (which we believe is wrong). Later on when the Roman empire took over that land and most of the land became catholic, the pope (catholic) replaced this holiday with Holloween (means "saints Eve"). he did this to stop the holiday not celebrate another one. So really you should celebrate Halloween. Thanks for taking the time to read and I hope I answered your question.
  • [quote author=tonton link=topic=12513.msg146889#msg146889 date=1320103536]
    Holloween was originaly a pagan holiday. The pagans would sacrafice livestock to their gods (which we believe is wrong). Later on when the Roman empire took over that land and most of the land became catholic, the pope (catholic) replaced this holiday with Holloween (means "saints Eve"). he did this to stop the holiday not celebrate another one. So really you should celebrate Halloween. Thanks for taking the time to read and I hope I answered your question.

    i am confused. so the catholic pope kept the name of the "feast" but change what is done in it?! please read what you have written and clarify.
  • [quote author=tonton link=topic=12513.msg146889#msg146889 date=1320103536]
    Holloween was originaly a pagan holiday. The pagans would sacrafice livestock to their gods (which we believe is wrong). Later on when the Roman empire took over that land and most of the land became catholic, the pope (catholic) replaced this holiday with Holloween (means "saints Eve"). he did this to stop the holiday not celebrate another one. So really you should celebrate Halloween. Thanks for taking the time to read and I hope I answered your question.


    Andrew / Unworthy1's article summed up the history nicely:
    http://www.allsaintsofamerica.org/orthodoxy/halloween.html
  • + Irini nem ehmot,

    Not that this will make a shred of difference to anyone here, what with everyone's preconceived notions and love for misinformation, but here are two articles on Halloween that provide an alternative Orthodox and Catholic perspective:

    Orthodox Perspective:

    Who's Afraid of Halloween?

    Original Article can be found at johnsanidopoulos.com/2010/10/whos-afraid-of-halloween.html

    By Fr. Mark Sietsema *

    I have a confession to make. And it’s a bad one ….

    When I was a kid … I used to get dressed up for Halloween! And it was not always something innocent either, like an astronaut or a cowboy. Once I was even a ghost! Worse yet, I would go door-to-door with my brothers and say “Trick or treat!” Idolatrous! Occultic! Satanic! Over time, of course this demon-glorifying activity caught up with me. Look at me now. I dress in black almost every day …

    Of course you see the problem here. If not, you will very soon start reading about it in the paper again. Many people of churchy persuasions object strenuously to the observance of Halloween. Every year we read letters to the editor that run as follows:

    “Halloween is the worship of the devil! Halloween comes from heathen roots! Trick or Treat comes from an ancient pagan custom: the Druids would go from house to house seeking a virgin to sacrifice! If you complied and handed over your family’s virgin, they left outside your door a jack-o-lantern with a candle inside … fueled by human fat! If you did not comply, a terrible trick would be played on you! The Catholic Church perpetuated the pagan legends with its Feast of All Saints. If you let your kids celebrate Halloween, you expose them to the possibility of demonic possession!”

    Well, good Orthodox Christian, what should our Church make of this controversy? Is Halloween something we Christians should shun like the Black Mass? Don’t the facts about Halloween’s origins prove that it is an abomination?

    No. First of all, none of these “facts” are true. It’s all fiction. We know almost nothing about the culture and practices of the ancient Druids, except what little the Romans had to say. (Mind you, these are the same Romans who also used to say that Christians hold secret orgies where they sacrifice babies and eat them—so let’s be careful about how much credence we give them.) The Romans invaded Britain in 43 B.C. There they found a number of Celtic tribes, which the Roman legions subjugated with relative ease.

    Now, you need to know that the Romans were not what you would call “culturally curious.” They had little interest in the ways of the conquered Britons. Generally, when there is interaction between conqueror and subject, the conqueror picks up and uses the local names for rivers, hills, and the like. For instance, our state is full of names from the native languages of the Indians: Michigan, Mackinac, Saginaw, Escanaba, Kalamazoo, Washtenaw. However, we find almost no use of the Celtic place names by the Romans. The Romans did not come to Britain for kaffee-klatsches, but for plundering and pillaging. Under the Roman sword the Celtic place-names perished with the Celts, as did any certain knowledge of Celtic or Druidic customs (like what kind of fat they used in their candles).

    But what if the stories about pagan Halloween were true? Does that prevent us from making a fun day out of the Thirty-First of October? Or do pagan origins damn a thing forever?

    I would hope that as Orthodox Christians we would know better than to say that. We borrowed an awful lot of useful things from ancient pagan cultures. Our musical system of eight tones? From the pagan Greeks. (Next time you hear a dismissal hymn in the Third Tone, picture a phalanx of Lacedaemonian warriors marching into an attack: they liked Third Tone for their battle hymns.)

    And our iconography is an obvious adaptation of Egyptian funerary art: the portraits painted on Egyptian coffins look just like the faces in our icons. Christmas, we all know, is a retooling of the Roman celebration of the winter solstice, the Feast of Sol Invictus (the Invincible Sun-god). And many, many Christian churches were built atop pagan shrines and holy places, the most famous example being the conversion of the Parthenon (a temple built in honor of Athena the Virgin Warrior) to a church dedicated to the Virgin Mary.

    Even Protestants with their Puritan impulses and their “just the Bible” mentality have to contend with borrowings from pagan sources in the Scriptures. For example, chapters 22-24 of the Book of Proverbs are almost certainly a translation of the older Egyptian advice guide The Instruction of Amen-em-Opet. And elsewhere in the Bible different titles given to God such as El Elyon “God Most High” and “the one who rides on the clouds like a chariot” (Psalm 104:3) are originally epithets for the pagan storm-god Baal.

    What’s my point? You can’t judge a custom by its origins. What counts is one’s intention in the here and now. And let’s be honest: modern Halloween for you and me—and even the Wiccans down the street—has nothing to do with virgin sacrifice or black magic. It’s about having fun in a costume and eating things your dentist wouldn’t approve of.

    “Well!” the anti-Halloween crowd would reply, “Halloween teaches kids that they can get something for nothing!!” But is that so bad? To my ears that sounds awfully close to the Christian idea of grace!

    “Yes, yes, but we shouldn’t teach our kids that it’s OK to threaten someone with vandalism if they don’t fork over something you want!” Well, let’s look at this from another perspective. Maybe Halloween holds a nice little life lesson: you give a little to get a little. The Book of Proverbs speaks often of the power of gifts. If we all practiced the spirit of Halloween—being prepared always to give small kindnesses to those around us—what a wonderful world we would have.

    Again, let’s be honest: no one was ever possessed by the devil because he or she dressed up for Halloween or passed out licorice or read a Harry Potter book. Our modern lives have way too many other avenues for temptation to enter, and these things are the real cause of our spiritual problems: pride, gluttony, hatred, materialism, and ignorance.

    This may be the only pro-Halloween article by a clergyman you read this year. Actually, this piece isn’t so much pro-Halloween as it is anti-superstition and anti-paranoia. American Christianity is too much titillated by thoughts of demons, based on a mythology of evil that has more to do with pagan folklore than the sober statements of Scripture. Such superstition gives all Christians a bad name.

    That’s why I’m not afraid of Halloween, and I see no problem with Orthodox Christians having fun at costume parties. After all, why would anyone want to learn more about Jesus Christ and his message, if being a Christian means forever being a spoilsport and a killjoy? If you believe in one God, if you trust Him, then accept his protection and don’t live in fear of demonic bogeymen. The real battle with the devil is fought in the heart, not in front of the Harry Potter bookstore.

    Some people drink too much on New Year’s Eve. Should that stop you and me from enjoying a glass of champagne? Some people eat too much at Thanksgiving. Should that stop us from having our turkey with all the trimmings? Some people spend too much at Christmas. Should that stop us from exchanging gifts?

    Some people go overboard on the spooky side of Halloween. It’s not too hard to avoid that for your family. Skip the horror movies. Don’t revel in gore. Don’t profane death. Don’t indulge in occult practices … But don’t be paranoid or superstitious either!

    And have a Happy Halloween!

    * Fr. Mark Sietsema is the Presiding Priest at the Holy Trinity Greek Orthodox Church in Lansing, MI

    Source

    Catholic Perspective:

    What to Do About Halloween?

    From: Fr Moderator:

    The question often arises at this time of year about the celebration of Halloween by Catholics. Is it, for instance, "pagan" to dress up and go about as ghosts and goblins? The question often comes up because many modern Christians (mostly non-Catholic ones) believe Halloween has something to do with worshipping the devil and participating in witchcraft. The truth is, the origins of Halloween are rooted deeply in the theology and popular customs of Catholics.

    It is a revision of actual history to say that our modern celebration of Halloween has origins in Druid customs. It is true that the ancient Celts celebrated a major feast (the Celtic New Year) on October 31st, but the fact is that they celebrated a festival on the last day of almost every month.

    First of all, the celebration of Halloween, i.e., people dressing up in costumes, going to parties, and "begging" for candy, is not un-Catholic. Halloween falls on October 31st because the Feast of All Saints or "All Hallows" falls on November 1st. The feast in honor of all the Saints used to be celebrated on May 13th, but Pope Gregory III, in 731, moved it to November 1st, the dedication day of All Saints Chapel in St Peter's in Rome. This feast spread throughout the world.

    In 998, St Odilo, the abbot of the powerful monastery of Cluny in France, added a celebration on November 2nd. This was a day of prayer for the souls of all the faithful departed. Therefore, the Church had a feast of the Saints and those in Purgatory.

    It was the Irish Catholics who came up with the idea to remember somehow those souls who did not live by the Faith in this life. It became customary for these Irish to bang on pots and pans on All Hallow's Eve to let the damned know that they were not forgotten. In Ireland, then, all the dead came to be remembered. This, however, is still not exactly like our celebration of Halloween. On Halloween we also dress up in costumes.

    This practice arose in France during the 14th and 15th centuries. During the horrible bubonic plague, the Black Death, Europe lost half of her population. Artists depicted this on walls to remind us of our own mortality. These pictures and representations are known as the "Dance of Death" or "Dance Macabre." These figures were commonly painted on cemetery walls and showed the devil leading a daisy chain of people into the tomb. Sometimes the dance was re-enacted on All Souls' Day as a living tableau, with people dressed up as the dead. But the French dressed up on All Souls, not Halloween, and the Irish, who celebrated Halloween, did not dress up.

    The two were brought together in the colonies of North America during the 18th century, when Irish and French Catholics began to intermarry. Thus the two celebrations became mingled, and we began dressing up on Halloween. It is, as we can see, a very "American" holiday, but Catholic as well.

    "Trick-or-Treating" is a very odd addition to Halloween. It is the most American aspect of the holiday, and is the (unwilling) contribution of English Catholics.

    Guy Fawkes Day became a great celebration against Catholics in England. It celebrated the day the plot to blow up Parliament and King James I was discovered. This was on November 5, 1605. Guy Fawkes was the rather reckless man guarding the gunpowder. He was arrested and hanged. During these times of persecution of the Catholic Church, bands of revelers would wear masks and visit Catholics in the night demanding they be given cakes and beer.

    Guy Fawkes Day arrived in the American colonies with the first English settlers. Old King James had long been forgotten, but "Trick-or-Treating" was too much fun to give up. Eventually, it moved to the Irish/French Catholic masquerade. This practice of "Trick-or-Treating" was simply moved to coincide with the Catholic celebration involving dressing up. Also, among he Druids, candy was used to welcome the good spirits, and masks (jack o'lanterns) were used to scare away the evil spirits.

    Halloween can still serve the purpose of reminding us about Hell and how to avoid it. Halloween is also a day to prepare us to remember those who have gone before us in Faith, those already in Heaven and those still suffering in Purgatory. The next time someone claims Halloween is a cruel trick to lure our children into devil worship, I suggest you tell them the real origin of Halloween and let them know about its Catholic roots and significance. (By Fr Scott Archer)

    Catholic parents who are not comfortable with the worst secular aspects of Halloween can avail themselves of alternative activities on that day: family prayer and fasting for the Vigil of All Saints Day, visitations of houses in the garments of non-devilish personae, the reading aloud of stories of the Saints or of seasonal literature such as Edgar Allen Poe's "The Masque of the Red Death" and Washington Irving's "The Legend of Sleepy Hollow", and the playing of seasonal music such as Saint-Saens' "Danse Macabre", Modest Moussorgsky's "Night on Bald Mountain" and Sergei Rachmaninoff's "Isle of the Dead."

    A word of caution, however. The Church has always condemned as sins against the First Commandment, and thus cautioned her children to stay far away from: astrology, charms, divination, fortune-telling, magic, the ouija boards, sorcery, spells, witchcraft, and other occult activities, even if they are treated in a trivial or jesting fashion.

    St Thomas Aquinas says that it is not permitted to Christians even to dabble in such things: "Man has not been entrusted with power over the demons to employ them to whatsoever purpose he will. On the contrary, it is appointed that he should wage war against the demons. Hence, in no way is it lawful for man to make use of the demons' help by compacts -- either tacit or express" (II- II, Q96, Art. 3).

    We remember too the enjoinder of the Prayer to St Michael concerning Satanam aliosque spiritus malignos qui ad perditionem animarum pervagantur in mundo [Satan and the other evil spirits who roam in the world for the ruin of souls]. As in all things, parents must be sure to teach their children the proper balance in such matters, erring neither on the side of defect or excess.

    Source

    And no, there are no references, but who cares about references anyway, right?
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