Pride

edited December 1969 in Personal Issues
Recently I've been going through a turbulent stage in my life, and I think God has been trying to show me something. I have an insane amount of pride, although I would never have thought so. I am constantly concerned with how people view me! It's insane, really. I watch how I act, what I say, what I do around people; out of fear that people might not like me, trash talk me, or be displeased by myself. I always thought that this was a confidence problem, but now it seems like it has its roots in pride instead. This concern of how people view me, is really a concern for my own acceptance and love. These fears of being trash-talked  or disliked is a concern for my own reputation.

And, as such, to conquer pride you must attack it at the source- yourself. This revelation allowed me to realize that, who cares? I am placing myself at the center of the world- thinking everyone cares about my actions, who I am, and even the words I type now. But, I am really nothing, and although people will indeed talk bad/good about you, does it really matter? If you have that conviction within yourself, not to live for yourself, then God's love will cast out all these fears and life will be a lot easier for you in that sense.

I am very excited over this lesson, but maybe some of you have some  things to enlighten me with. In honesty, I am actually afraid that I will go out tomorrow and forget what I have learned, for I have far too long been a victim of this pride, that I do not know how to live without it. Anyone have any tips that will keep you humble?

Comments

  • "Once a monk asked St. Macarius for advice.. St. Macarius ordered him to go and praise the dead. He did so but no one replied to him. The Saint then ordered him to go and insult them, but when he did noone replied either. Then St. Macarius said to that monk, 'You must be like the dead since you have died to the world, You must not be affected by anything whether praise or insult'. " - The Release of the Spirit by H.H Pope Shenouda III http://www.copticpope.org/modules.php?name=Web_Links&l_op=visit&lid=33
    this book says it all.

    One of the fathers say (i forgot who) that responding to praise shows we have accepted it. But we should be dead to praise and insults.

    Woe to you when men speak well of you.
    Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake, rejoice and be exceedingly glad for great is your reward in heaven.
  • Thank you, but I'm not even being persecuted in the name of Christ, I wish. That's what makes it all the more lame, I"m just lame I guess :/
  • +You're not lame, you're God's child.

    Being persecuted for God's name can be something as simple as trying to follow God's commandments and people think you are crazy - like trying to be chaste in a generation that thinks chasity is abnormal. It's their thinking that's been flawed.

    A tip for being 'humble': if we find anything 'good' in us say "by God's grace I am what I am". We don't deserve God's grace, nor can we do anything so God can love us more. But out of His grace we work. I guess if we are seeking to please people and be perfect in their eyes, we are really being a hypocrite when we stand before God.. We would be embarrased when we stand before Him and talk to Him, because He knows our real state, that we are nothing without Him. While infront of people we put this act as if we made ourselves, or that we are something.

    H.H's book has the complete answers all the things you stated before

  • Well said +iloveJesus.
  • I understand what you're saying, I also fight with this issue, just continually fight day by day and don't get weary - there will be a blessing in persisting.


    Heres something also that I often have to remind myself: IT IS NOT YOU who will make the pride stop, God will be the one through HIS Divine Grace and love who will make you to know Humility because He is the prime example of it by leaving HIS Heavenly Glory to come in our lowly human form to save us. Remember your sins and repent daily, asking God to take away this thing from you every day. You have to  understand you are not the source of any progress you have. God is the one by HIS Mercy and love that has granted it and it is not because you are "good". Fasting and reading Spiritual books about fathers who were humble or books by Abune Sinoda on the topic also help.

    Heres something written by his Grace Abune Sinoda that might help called " Beware of False Humility":
    http://www.coptichymns.net/module-library-viewpub-tid-1-pid-609.html

    Also Habib Giurgiz wrote a couple of things on the topic that are good to think about:

    The Evil of Pride:
    http://mobile.coptichymns.net/index.php?module=library&func=viewpub&tid=1&pid=625

    One Should Not Praise Himself:
    http://www.coptichymns.net/index.php?module=library&func=viewpub&tid=1&pid=627

    Advice for Those Who Seek Humility:
    http://www.coptichymns.net/index.php?module=library&func=viewpub&tid=1&pid=624

    Vainglory:
    http://mobile.coptichymns.net/module-library-viewpub-tid-1-pid-626.html

    Humility and Meekness:
    http://www.coptichymns.net/index.php?module=library&func=viewpub&tid=1&pid=623
  • I am so angry at myself. I keepf alling into the same sin, and I set a time period for myself of time taht it will take for me to be "good" again, say if I can stop this sin for a week, from the on I can be good. And I keep falling, and it keeps making me think im floor worthless and I hate myself i suck
  • [quote author=liftmyheart link=topic=12144.msg143884#msg143884 date=1314675713]
    I am so angry at myself. I keepf alling into the same sin, and I set a time period for myself of time taht it will take for me to be "good" again, say if I can stop this sin for a week, from the on I can be good. And I keep falling, and it keeps making me think im floor worthless and I hate myself i suck


    don't beat yourself up because of this. think of it as God's way of humbling you. the more you think you can or you have the ability to be "good" then you're being prideful in thinking "oh yea, i can be good if i want to". whenever im becoming prideful or self-righteous, i think of the desert fathers who obviously achieved manifold virtues, yet thought of themselves as the greatest sinnners (and they BELIEVED it with all their heart). if st. anthony thought he was the greatest sinner alive, then what am i?

    -your sister ♥
  • Watch the Father Anthony Series, it really helped me with this issue:

    Deceiving Truths, I posted a topic about it just today! :
    http://tasbeha.org/content/community/index.php/topic,12326.0.html

    (watch the whole series)
  • [quote author=liftmyheart link=topic=12144.msg143884#msg143884 date=1314675713]
    I am so angry at myself. I keepf alling into the same sin, and I set a time period for myself of time taht it will take for me to be "good" again, say if I can stop this sin for a week, from the on I can be good. And I keep falling, and it keeps making me think im floor worthless and I hate myself i suck


    Here is a nice tip from a book called the way of the ascetics about how to live like a monk in the city.  If you're angry with yourself over sin this is an example of pride because a humble person knows that they're a sinner and that they expect themselves to sin; the surprise is if they manage to follow the commandments.  The humble person in this situation simply acknowledges this as yet one another of their many daily sins and quietly, yet quickly without much disturbance of mind or emotion they return to God.  The emotional disturbance comes from the devil because he is jealous and he wants us to turn back from God and lose hope.

    Another example of pride is that we sometimes attach value to ourselves because we are capable of following the commandments; the truth as revealed in Scripture is that we love God because He loved us first by loving us when we were sinners.  God doesn't love or value us because we follow His commandments; He loves and values us because He made us and bestowed the dignity of His image and likeness on us.  Its kind of like how a father loves a son from the moment they're born even though the son is not capable of doing anything to please their father yet with their own capabilities. The father loves that son just simply because he is his son and to provide for him and look after him, even to just see him is a source of great joy.  Its like that with God and us, I think pride is where we set standards for ourselves which we presume are the standard we need to be at to be loved but the truth is God's love for us started well before the thought to follow Him even entered into our minds and the truth is that He actually implanted that good intention in there.

    If you now realise the pride of your heart simply thank God that He has opened your eyes; I can promise you that this is a growing sense which will increase every day; just as a stain on a white garment is more noticeable on a clean garment than it is on a dirty one so it is as we grow closer to God we will see our sins more clearly but this is the product of God helping us to see them; its not something we figured out.

    My suggestions is don't worry about beating yourself up too much; just visit your confession father, tell him about your experiences and ask him to absolve you of all these sins, have communion and then you're done - well, until the next time at least. :)
  • [quote author=LoveisDivine link=topic=12144.msg144439#msg144439 date=1315644543]
    [quote author=liftmyheart link=topic=12144.msg143884#msg143884 date=1314675713]
    I am so angry at myself. I keepf alling into the same sin, and I set a time period for myself of time taht it will take for me to be "good" again, say if I can stop this sin for a week, from the on I can be good. And I keep falling, and it keeps making me think im floor worthless and I hate myself i suck


    Here is a nice tip from a book called the way of the ascetics about how to live like a monk in the city.  If you're angry with yourself over sin this is an example of pride because a humble person knows that they're a sinner and that they expect themselves to sin; the surprise is if they manage to follow the commandments.  The humble person in this situation simply acknowledges this as yet one another of their many daily sins and quietly, yet quickly without much disturbance of mind or emotion they return to God.  The emotional disturbance comes from the devil because he is jealous and he wants us to turn back from God and lose hope.

    Another example of pride is that we sometimes attach value to ourselves because we are capable of following the commandments; the truth as revealed in Scripture is that we love God because He loved us first by loving us when we were sinners.  God doesn't love or value us because we follow His commandments; He loves and values us because He made us and bestowed the dignity of His image and likeness on us.  Its kind of like how a father loves a son from the moment they're born even though the son is not capable of doing anything to please their father yet with their own capabilities. The father loves that son just simply because he is his son and to provide for him and look after him, even to just see him is a source of great joy.  Its like that with God and us, I think pride is where we set standards for ourselves which we presume are the standard we need to be at to be loved but the truth is God's love for us started well before the thought to follow Him even entered into our minds and the truth is that He actually implanted that good intention in there.

    If you now realise the pride of your heart simply thank God that He has opened your eyes; I can promise you that this is a growing sense which will increase every day; just as a stain on a white garment is more noticeable on a clean garment than it is on a dirty one so it is as we grow closer to God we will see our sins more clearly but this is the product of God helping us to see them; its not something we figured out.

    My suggestions is don't worry about beating yourself up too much; just visit your confession father, tell him about your experiences and ask him to absolve you of all these sins, have communion and then you're done - well, until the next time at least. :)

    2 qs: is this book by Tito Colliander?
    and this reminds me of Abouna Anthony's sermon, "Decieving Truths" when he talked about the concept of grace--"we don't work FOR God's acceptance, we work FROM God's acceptance.
  • [quote author=LoveisDivine link=topic=12144.msg144439#msg144439 date=1315644543]
    [quote author=liftmyheart link=topic=12144.msg143884#msg143884 date=1314675713]
    I am so angry at myself. I keepf alling into the same sin, and I set a time period for myself of time taht it will take for me to be "good" again, say if I can stop this sin for a week, from the on I can be good. And I keep falling, and it keeps making me think im floor worthless and I hate myself i suck


    Here is a nice tip from a book called the way of the ascetics about how to live like a monk in the city.  If you're angry with yourself over sin this is an example of pride because a humble person knows that they're a sinner and that they expect themselves to sin; the surprise is if they manage to follow the commandments.  The humble person in this situation simply acknowledges this as yet one another of their many daily sins and quietly, yet quickly without much disturbance of mind or emotion they return to God.  The emotional disturbance comes from the devil because he is jealous and he wants us to turn back from God and lose hope.

    Another example of pride is that we sometimes attach value to ourselves because we are capable of following the commandments; the truth as revealed in Scripture is that we love God because He loved us first by loving us when we were sinners.  God doesn't love or value us because we follow His commandments; He loves and values us because He made us and bestowed the dignity of His image and likeness on us.  Its kind of like how a father loves a son from the moment they're born even though the son is not capable of doing anything to please their father yet with their own capabilities. The father loves that son just simply because he is his son and to provide for him and look after him, even to just see him is a source of great joy.  Its like that with God and us, I think pride is where we set standards for ourselves which we presume are the standard we need to be at to be loved but the truth is God's love for us started well before the thought to follow Him even entered into our minds and the truth is that He actually implanted that good intention in there.

    If you now realise the pride of your heart simply thank God that He has opened your eyes; I can promise you that this is a growing sense which will increase every day; just as a stain on a white garment is more noticeable on a clean garment than it is on a dirty one so it is as we grow closer to God we will see our sins more clearly but this is the product of God helping us to see them; its not something we figured out.

    My suggestions is don't worry about beating yourself up too much; just visit your confession father, tell him about your experiences and ask him to absolve you of all these sins, have communion and then you're done - well, until the next time at least. :)


    Great words, LiD. Thanks  :)
  • [quote author=ForeverYours link=topic=12144.msg144448#msg144448 date=1315675107]
    [quote author=LoveisDivine link=topic=12144.msg144439#msg144439 date=1315644543]
    [quote author=liftmyheart link=topic=12144.msg143884#msg143884 date=1314675713]
    I am so angry at myself. I keepf alling into the same sin, and I set a time period for myself of time taht it will take for me to be "good" again, say if I can stop this sin for a week, from the on I can be good. And I keep falling, and it keeps making me think im floor worthless and I hate myself i suck


    Here is a nice tip from a book called the way of the ascetics about how to live like a monk in the city.  If you're angry with yourself over sin this is an example of pride because a humble person knows that they're a sinner and that they expect themselves to sin; the surprise is if they manage to follow the commandments.  The humble person in this situation simply acknowledges this as yet one another of their many daily sins and quietly, yet quickly without much disturbance of mind or emotion they return to God.  The emotional disturbance comes from the devil because he is jealous and he wants us to turn back from God and lose hope.

    Another example of pride is that we sometimes attach value to ourselves because we are capable of following the commandments; the truth as revealed in Scripture is that we love God because He loved us first by loving us when we were sinners.  God doesn't love or value us because we follow His commandments; He loves and values us because He made us and bestowed the dignity of His image and likeness on us.  Its kind of like how a father loves a son from the moment they're born even though the son is not capable of doing anything to please their father yet with their own capabilities. The father loves that son just simply because he is his son and to provide for him and look after him, even to just see him is a source of great joy.  Its like that with God and us, I think pride is where we set standards for ourselves which we presume are the standard we need to be at to be loved but the truth is God's love for us started well before the thought to follow Him even entered into our minds and the truth is that He actually implanted that good intention in there.

    If you now realise the pride of your heart simply thank God that He has opened your eyes; I can promise you that this is a growing sense which will increase every day; just as a stain on a white garment is more noticeable on a clean garment than it is on a dirty one so it is as we grow closer to God we will see our sins more clearly but this is the product of God helping us to see them; its not something we figured out.

    My suggestions is don't worry about beating yourself up too much; just visit your confession father, tell him about your experiences and ask him to absolve you of all these sins, have communion and then you're done - well, until the next time at least. :)

    2 qs: is this book by Tito Colliander?
    and this reminds me of Abouna Anthony's sermon, "Decieving Truths" when he talked about the concept of grace--"we don't work FOR God's acceptance, we work FROM God's acceptance.


    Yes, it is Tito Colliander's book.  Its a very tough read and should be read in very small doses.  I found that its best balanced with something more uplifting like the practice of the presence of God by brother Lawrence.

    I don't know Abouna Anthony but that sounds like a lovely paraphrase to remember.
  • + Irini nem ehmot,

    From: The Mystery of Godliness by Habib Guirgus
    Chapter 53: Advice for Those Who Seek Humility

    Love humility, and rejoice when the causes of pride and boast weakens and do not desire that people compliment you.

    If someone complimented you, make it a means to increase your humility, and rejoice in thanking others.

    Do not envy, but acquire the holy zeal. Do not let your goal be 'to please people', but please God and then people will be satisfied.

    Put all your efforts first to glorify God, and do not let your heart boast by your works, but give glory to God alone, saying; "For all things come from You... from Your hand, and is all Your own" (I Chronicles 29:14,16).

    Cast out of your heart the desire to boast and pride and vainglory.

    Do not prevent the good from your neighbor and know that all you have and own on this earth, is not from you, but it is from God "from the Father of lights" (James 1:17).

    Let your heart be humble and meek, and do not return evil and cursing except by meekness and politeness. Salvage yourself from the evil of others by fleeing, or by patience, or by calmness, or by sweet words. Be meek, calm and humble to all people, and let your meekness be free of weakness.

    Walk with your brothers and sisters in love, and treat them in meekness and humility.

    Be a servant to them, talk to them gently, and converse with them-smiling, and respecting them deeply, and offer dignity and honor unto them. Be an example for them in meekness and humility, and accept from the divine hands everything that befell you in patience, knowing that God wills that for you.

    Humility is better than knowledge. A poor man with little knowledge but humble, is far better than a rich philosopher who is boastful and proud.

    Exert all the effort that you can to live a good life, much better than excessive knowledge without virtue. Know that virtue is much higher and more appealing than knowledge.

    Do not let your heart boast and do not be proud, for the boastful is rejected from God and people. Do not be proud by knowledge, and do not boast by a trade, but rather learn to live humbly. Know that you did not receive anything by your power or strength, but by the grace of God.

    If you ever thought that you acquire knowledge and smartness, look and watch for you are missing many things that you are not aware of and if your mind is filled with science and knowledge, be sure that you are yet at the shore of the vast knowledge.

    Admit your ignorance and limitations, and never think of yourself that you are something. Think positive about others, for that is an increased wisdom and a high virtue. If you saw someone fell, give him/her an excuse, and ask God for his/her speedy recovery, because you do not know what will befall you.

    If you saw someone committing a serious sin, never think that you are better than him, for you never know if you will continue being good or will fall into temptations - we are all weak and are in a bad need for God's help to protect us from the traps and snares of pride and boasting.

    If you saw yourself short of something or a matter needs to be mended, do not let pride prevent you from correcting it, and do not allow your boasting spoil what you want to repair.

    Accept the advice of others in thanksgiving, and make it a means to correct yourself. If you advised someone, let it be in love, humility and meekness.

    Be an example for everyone, to proclaim that Christianity made you meek, sensitive, polite, calm, and lead a happy life.

    Be humble with the adults and the young ones. Be calm before everyone to become loved from God and man. Do not marvel at yourself if you achieved a great matter, but rather give glory to God who granted you that gift and bestowed on you that grace.

    Do not boast at your beautiful features or the strength of your youth, for both will vanish and go, and a little sickness can destroy the beauty of your face and weakens the strength of man.

    Do not be proud by your wealth, for it could be taken, lost or stolen.

    Do not show off your relatives and friends who are dignified and powerful, but rather let your pride be in the Lord who grants everything to the godliness.

    Do not consider yourself better than others, lest you become despised in the eyes of others! God will reject you and people will repel you and cast you out, but try to consider yourself less than them all. If you have or acquire something good, believe that others have better and greater than you. You never lose when you are humble and meek, but you will lose and be hurt badly if you boast and be so proud. Do not love show off with the great and dignified ones, but be content and happy being around the humble and simple ones.

    Stay away from hypocrisy as you flee from a serpent, as cast it out of your heart. Let your outward be like your inward, and do not allow yourself to know the way to 'sneakiness', 'to cheating', and to be a hypocrite.

    Do not despise anyone or put them down or belittle them, whether it is young ones or elders or poor, lest you be considered judgmental to God's creatures.

    Respect and honor everyone and watch their feelings. If you saw a handicap in the street, try to lead him to his destiny. Do not excuse yourself from a small task dictated to you by virtue and humility claiming that it is despised and filthy, but be a good example in serving others, knowing that your Master 'came to serve, and not to be served' (cf. Matthew 20:28).

    Visit prisoners and the sick. Host the poor and strangers. Help the weak and comfort the sad. Strengthen the broken and be a refuge for those in calamities. Be patient and compassionate with the poor and ask forgiveness from those whom you have hurt.

    Bless those who persecute you and love those who hate you.

    If someone despised you or reviled you for being holy, be happy and rejoice exceedingly, for your reward in heaven is doubled and have deserved the heavenly.

    Source
  • [quote author=LoveisDivine link=topic=12144.msg144474#msg144474 date=1315721874]
    [quote author=ForeverYours link=topic=12144.msg144448#msg144448 date=1315675107]
    [quote author=LoveisDivine link=topic=12144.msg144439#msg144439 date=1315644543]
    [quote author=liftmyheart link=topic=12144.msg143884#msg143884 date=1314675713]
    I am so angry at myself. I keepf alling into the same sin, and I set a time period for myself of time taht it will take for me to be "good" again, say if I can stop this sin for a week, from the on I can be good. And I keep falling, and it keeps making me think im floor worthless and I hate myself i suck


    Here is a nice tip from a book called the way of the ascetics about how to live like a monk in the city.  If you're angry with yourself over sin this is an example of pride because a humble person knows that they're a sinner and that they expect themselves to sin; the surprise is if they manage to follow the commandments.  The humble person in this situation simply acknowledges this as yet one another of their many daily sins and quietly, yet quickly without much disturbance of mind or emotion they return to God.  The emotional disturbance comes from the devil because he is jealous and he wants us to turn back from God and lose hope.

    Another example of pride is that we sometimes attach value to ourselves because we are capable of following the commandments; the truth as revealed in Scripture is that we love God because He loved us first by loving us when we were sinners.  God doesn't love or value us because we follow His commandments; He loves and values us because He made us and bestowed the dignity of His image and likeness on us.  Its kind of like how a father loves a son from the moment they're born even though the son is not capable of doing anything to please their father yet with their own capabilities. The father loves that son just simply because he is his son and to provide for him and look after him, even to just see him is a source of great joy.  Its like that with God and us, I think pride is where we set standards for ourselves which we presume are the standard we need to be at to be loved but the truth is God's love for us started well before the thought to follow Him even entered into our minds and the truth is that He actually implanted that good intention in there.

    If you now realise the pride of your heart simply thank God that He has opened your eyes; I can promise you that this is a growing sense which will increase every day; just as a stain on a white garment is more noticeable on a clean garment than it is on a dirty one so it is as we grow closer to God we will see our sins more clearly but this is the product of God helping us to see them; its not something we figured out.

    My suggestions is don't worry about beating yourself up too much; just visit your confession father, tell him about your experiences and ask him to absolve you of all these sins, have communion and then you're done - well, until the next time at least. :)

    2 qs: is this book by Tito Colliander?
    and this reminds me of Abouna Anthony's sermon, "Decieving Truths" when he talked about the concept of grace--"we don't work FOR God's acceptance, we work FROM God's acceptance.


    Yes, it is Tito Colliander's book.  Its a very tough read and should be read in very small doses.  I found that its best balanced with something more uplifting like the practice of the presence of God by brother Lawrence.

    I don't know Abouna Anthony but that sounds like a lovely paraphrase to remember.


    YOU SHOULD WATCH THIS VIDEO CALLED DECEIVING TRUTHS BY ABUNE ANTHONY MASSEH!

    GROUND BREAKING ON THIS ISSUE OF PRIDE

    (Part 1 Deceiving Truths)
    http://orthodoxsermons.org/sermons/deceiving-truths-part-1
  • I don't know how you came to the revelation that you have too much pride or anything,

    I noticed that if somebody was born in egypt, they get taught to be humble and get taught that they are nothing special and never mind how much you achieve, you're still not good enough.

    In the west, children are encouraged and praised whether they are geniuses or not..made to feel confident and believe in themselves.


    They are two extremes...neither is 100%

    are you sure it just isn't a matter of you being raised up the western way and then feeling guilty about it? because I don't think you should feel guilty..just know your true capabilities. I'm not amazing..but i'm not absolutely bad either.

    everybody has things that they are good at..and things that they can't do to save their lives.

    we just need to make sure that we don't brag about ourselves. yes we can be happy when we achieve something..but also thank god for making you good at it.
    Also we don't need to put ourselves down and moan about how we will never be able to do the things we are not good at..because that's not gonna get us anywhere.

    I am proud that I am trying to lead a good life, proud that I was born into a christian family. Proud when I pass an exam, get a job..etc and I thank god for it.

    it's like, god gives you a present every now and then..so you smile , take it, say thank you and enjoy your life....so what is the problem?

    let me know what you think and explain if i didn't understand the pride you are experiencing.
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