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A New Government for Egypt - Coptic Position
Hi,
What is the position of the Coptic Orthodox Church concerning the removal of the current Mubarak regime? Is it supporting Copts who wish to protest?
How does it view the protests?
Also, what is the best alternative government/leader for Egypt who will return the Copts back their rights. Who would that be? El Baradei?
Has the Pope said anything concerning this? Has he suggested a new leader or candidate that Copts should get behind?
Thanks
What is the position of the Coptic Orthodox Church concerning the removal of the current Mubarak regime? Is it supporting Copts who wish to protest?
How does it view the protests?
Also, what is the best alternative government/leader for Egypt who will return the Copts back their rights. Who would that be? El Baradei?
Has the Pope said anything concerning this? Has he suggested a new leader or candidate that Copts should get behind?
Thanks
Comments
any change has gotta be good right? like things can't get any worse for us in Egypt. Even an open era of martyrdom would be better than this secret genocide. don't put too much hope in El barad3y. He's in support of the muslim brotherhood being allowed to form their own party. That's what he told amr adib last year. No one who says that can possibly be good.
The coptic people are in a very tight spot here. Afifi, the guy in the states, is accusing el 3adley of being responsible for the persecution of the copts in Egypt and he's trying to use that to get support for himself. Not that he actually cares about whats happening to the copts, he just hates el 3adley. Neither side wish us well, as copts, so HH just says, let's stay out of it.
I don't know about Egypt's current government issues. since they still try to pretend mubarak is the greatest thing ever, but we do know something big is going to happen soon. when abouna makary visited the united states he told us that there were some very difficult days coming for the church in Egypt, to be followed by something that would make us all want to go back there...
any change has gotta be good right? like things can't get any worse for us in Egypt. Even an open era of martyrdom would be better than this secret genocide. don't put too much hope in El barad3y. He's in support of the muslim brotherhood being allowed to form their own party. That's what he told amr adib last year. No one who says that can possibly be good.
Oh WOW!!
May be they are going to elect a Coptic Christian as President?? Who knows??
I was of the same opinion as you.. i felt that El Baradei was really trying to get smug with the MB, and that put me right off, but apparently we've misunderstood this. I have "reliable" sources that have informed me that he is not trying to do anything with them and it was the MB that in fact proposed the unity with him.
Regardless, we'll wait and see.
Thanks for your posts Epiphania.. I had no idea about El 3adley, but I think this is more than him. I really feel that poverty levels have gotten so bad in Egypt, people cannot live there anymore. Islam isn't helping the situation. There's mosques in every street corner paid for by the government, and its still not giving them food.
Its so expensive there.
People really want change.
Oh WOW!!
May be they are going to elect a Coptic Christian as President?? Who knows??
I am sorry to dampen your enthusiasm, Zoxsasi, but HH Pope Shenouda III has also said the following: "If a Copt cannot even become a member of the bar association, how could he possibly become president of the country?"
Very sad, and very true. :(
they definitely need some change in Egypt! Coptic president? maybe. I personally think it's better than that. Coptic president wouldn't make me wanna go back. lol
My parents took me to Egypt a few years ago, and when we visited Old Egypt, my parents sat down and talked to this old priest and he told them that his FOC told him to be prepared because he would raise incense in what is now, a nearby mosque. Whatever is in store for Egypt--All things work together for the good of those who love God.
The current government in Egypt are all muslim, and they've ruined the country
That of Tunisia were all muslim and they've ruined their country.
Morocco and Yemen have all muslim governments, and are looking at revolting.
But, if the muslim brotherhood wins, whose slogans are "islam is the answer" - isn't that just going to change the government, but not the problem.
What kind of government do Egyptians want? A more Islamic government? Was mubarak NOT muslim enough for Egypt?
(Im asking in ALL sincerity,.. its not a sarcastic question.. I'd like to know really from anyone muslim).
What is the answer?
[quote author=dzheremi link=topic=10566.msg128582#msg128582 date=1296163339]
[quote author=Zoxsasi link=topic=10566.msg128580#msg128580 date=1296162820]
Oh WOW!!
May be they are going to elect a Coptic Christian as President?? Who knows??
I am sorry to dampen your enthusiasm, Zoxsasi, but HH Pope Shenouda III has also said the following: "If a Copt cannot even become a member of the bar association, how could he possibly become president of the country?"
Very sad, and very true. :(
Ahh... DZ, that's where you are wrong my friend.
hehehe
I saw the same interview. Listen to the question before it. He was put in a tight situation. He was asked whether or not a Coptic Christian should be President. What can he say on National TV?????
If he says "Yes" - then he's definately making enemies. Then he's telling the current leaders what he thinks of them.
If he says "no" - then he's making peace with them. "NO" is the ONLY answer he can give..
and his REASON for "NO" is that "If a Copt cannot even become a member of the bar association, how could he possibly become president of the country".
OF COURSE the Church would love a Coptic President!!!
Habibi... the Coptic Church would be flattered if there's a Coptic toilet cleaner in the Presidential Palace.
Now Mubarak's regime is very corrupt and useless, I am no supporter of it, but in the same time, life under the islamic brotherhood is like living in Iran. The majority of muslims are not educated (in terms ofcultural education), fanatics, controlled by islamic rules in every aspect of their life, and they will elect fanatics if the elections were to be democratic. They do not have what it takes now to be a democracy.
Their is no solution for the current situation for Copts. Advising the Copts not to demonstrate was wise by Pope Shenouda.
Egypt has been through a similar phase before, when the Mamlouks and the Turks have destroyed the country by the end of the 1700's and early 1800's. The egyptian made a powerful revolution and they brought Muhamed Ali to power. He transformed Egypt, but with an iron fist.
What is remarkable that the age of prosperity for the Copts in Egypt, mainly the beginning of the 1900's till 1952, marked a severe decline in spirituality and in the church. We only prosper spiritually when persecuted. Maybe that is why God keeps us pressed all the time.
Overturning Mubarak's regime is disastrous for the Copts. The only power who are organized and who practically own every aspect of Egyptian life are the Islamic Brotherhood. Organized, financed by oil money from Iran and Saudi Arabia, ideological and pragmatic, they are the only organization capable of filling the void. They have penetrated the police, the secret services and the army and as such own the political scene. Their very patient undercurrent program to infiltrate all aspects of the society has worked and has brought fruits.
Now Mubarak's regime is very corrupt and useless, I am no supporter of it, but in the same time, life under the islamic brotherhood is like living in Iran. The majority of muslims are not educated (in terms ofcultural education), fanatics, controlled by islamic rules in every aspect of their life, and they will elect fanatics if the elections were to be democratic. They do not have what it takes now to be a democracy.
Their is no solution for the current situation for Copts. Advising the Copts not to demonstrate was wise by Pope Shenouda.
Egypt has been through a similar phase before, when the Mamlouks and the Turks have destroyed the country by the end of the 1700's and early 1800's. The egyptian made a powerful revolution and they brought Muhamed Ali to power. He transformed Egypt, but with an iron fist.
What is remarkable that the age of prosperity for the Copts in Egypt, mainly the beginning of the 1900's till 1952, marked a severe decline in spirituality and in the church. We only prosper spiritually when persecuted. Maybe that is why God keeps us pressed all the time.
Stavro,
I feel you are so right. The muslims are asking us to revolt with them. It reminds me like when they asked us to fight with them against Israel.
We fought for them against Israel, thinking that we are fighting for our country, only to find out that we had been fighting for someone else's country; one we were not even welcomed in. One where we are not even considered guests.
I have NO idea how the MB can keep on going on saying that "Islam is the solution". That's so strange. I mean, oK.. let's say that they take over power.. what next? It will be like Iran. And is Iran a happy place to be?
Is Pakistan a happy place to be? Pakistanis are dying to get out and move to Londonistan or Netherlandistan.
What are the MB planning on? Building bigger mosques is the answer to Egypt's problems? Until every woman wears a veil in Egypt, then the price of wheat will always be expensive because big bad allah is not a happy camper??
What is IT???
Ahh... DZ, that's where you are wrong my friend.
hehehe
I saw the same interview. Listen to the question before it. He was put in a tight situation. He was asked whether or not a Coptic Christian should be President. What can he say on National TV?????
If he says "Yes" - then he's definately making enemies. Then he's telling the current leaders what he thinks of them.
If he says "no" - then he's making peace with them. "NO" is the ONLY answer he can give..
and his REASON for "NO" is that "If a Copt cannot even become a member of the bar association, how could he possibly become president of the country".
OF COURSE the Church would love a Coptic President!!!
Habibi... the Coptic Church would be flattered if there's a Coptic toilet cleaner in the Presidential Palace.
You are right about HH's reasons for answering as he did. Pope Shenouda III is a very wise man, and very much admired by me. I said to skeptical relatives when I joined the Catholic Church years ago that it was not out of a lack of Papal love and guidance in my life. In the case of the Coptic Orthodox Church, I may have to rethink that answer, so much do I love and admire your Pope.
That said, I don't think his answer is any less true just because he said it in a tight spot. When are the Copts not in a tight spot? And of course every one of the Copts (and non-Copts like me) would love to see a Coptic president in Egypt, but the majority of Egypt doesn't want that, so what use is it in pretending that it can be otherwise? I think that is the point that HH is making. Copts can't even get their equal rights outside of the federal government, much less inside of it.
It is not wrong to want a Coptic president. My only point is that it is not at all likely. Would that it were some other way! (Though I agree with the Desert Fathers and Mothers I have read who seemed to believe that the work of God cannot be done through the work of government, that is probably a topic for another thread... ;))
Overturning Mubarak's regime is disastrous for the Copts. The only power who are organized and who practically own every aspect of Egyptian life are the Islamic Brotherhood. Organized, financed by oil money from Iran and Saudi Arabia, ideological and pragmatic, they are the only organization capable of filling the void. They have penetrated the police, the secret services and the army and as such own the political scene. Their very patient undercurrent program to infiltrate all aspects of the society has worked and has brought fruits.
Now Mubarak's regime is very corrupt and useless, I am no supporter of it, but in the same time, life under the islamic brotherhood is like living in Iran. The majority of muslims are not educated (in terms ofcultural education), fanatics, controlled by islamic rules in every aspect of their life, and they will elect fanatics if the elections were to be democratic. They do not have what it takes now to be a democracy.
Their is no solution for the current situation for Copts. Advising the Copts not to demonstrate was wise by Pope Shenouda.
Egypt has been through a similar phase before, when the Mamlouks and the Turks have destroyed the country by the end of the 1700's and early 1800's. The egyptian made a powerful revolution and they brought Muhamed Ali to power. He transformed Egypt, but with an iron fist.
What is remarkable that the age of prosperity for the Copts in Egypt, mainly the beginning of the 1900's till 1952, marked a severe decline in spirituality and in the church. We only prosper spiritually when persecuted. Maybe that is why God keeps us pressed all the time.
lol. I do think that persecution has MADE the coptic church.
I agree with you that Mubarak is still better that the MB, but we NEED change. and Change needs to start somewhere. Mubarak is sick and they're saying he's going to step down as president in the 2011 elections, so his time is over anyways. If not now, soon enough. The guy is old.
Again this is my take thus far from the information available.