• [quote author=GODlovesme link=topic=9819.msg120213#msg120213 date=1286331845]
    Hello everyone,
    So I think I have clinical depression.  I was looking at a medical website online and a few other sources and I have all the symptoms listed there.  However, I do not want to go to a doctor and get prescribed medicine; I do not like medicine as it is not exactly a great thing for the long run.  Also, I do not want to let my parents know about this and if I go to a doctor, they will get worried and ask and I will have to tell them.  Sometimes I think this is from the devil and I have prayed about it a lot but I still have the same issue.  Is there any other way that I can deal with this?  Your thoughts and help are much appreciated.  Thank you.


    Thanks for your message. Now, I would definately advise you to go to a doctor. There's nothing wrong, or nothing to be ashamed about having any illness, especially this. You are not sure 1st of all whether you have it. Only a specialist will be able to diagnose your condition.

    But you must realise one thing: the sooner you treat any illness the easier it is to be cured. That's one reason for going to see a doctor early.

    The second reason is that if you go to see a doctor, you've lifted a lot of worry from yourself. You only have to tell your family that you are "not feeling well". That's it. You are in absolutely NO position, nor are you qualified to diagnose yourself as "clinically depressed". If you are, only a specialist will be able to tell you that. You've gone and depressed yourself over it for no reason.

    Go and see a doctor.
  • [quote author=GODlovesme link=topic=9819.msg120223#msg120223 date=1286354989]
    Hi Zoxsasi,
    Thank you for your post.  Whether I really have clinical depression or not I'm not sure, one thing I am sure of however is that I do have some form of depression.  I am actually going to go see a counselor/therapist tomorrow and see what she can do for me.  The thing is though, I have been dealing with this problem for almost three years...

    Thanks for your reply.

    God be with you and heal you.

    There could be a multitude of factors influencing this - it is very hard to say. I really would recommend you see a specialist. Maybe your therapist would recommend that later on?

    Perhaps, hopefully, it is just a phase in your life. It depends.

    Here's what webMD has to say:

    Do you have symptoms of clinical depression? Sure, most of us feel sad, lonely, or depressed at times. And feeling depressed is a normal reaction to loss, life's struggles, or an injured self-esteem. But when these feelings become overwhelming and last for long periods of time, they can keep you from leading a normal, active life. That's when it's time to seek medical help.

    If left untreated, symptoms of clinical or major depression may worsen and last for years. They can cause untold suffering and possibly lead to suicide. Recognizing the symptoms of depression is often the biggest hurdle to the diagnosis and treatment of clinical or major depression. Unfortunately, approximately half the people who experience symptoms never do get diagnosed or treated for their illness.

    Not getting treatment can be life threatening. More than one out of every 10 people battling depression commit suicide.

    What are symptoms of depression?
    According to the National Institute of Mental Health, symptoms of depression may include the following:

    difficulty concentrating, remembering details, and making decisions
    fatigue and decreased energy
    feelings of guilt, worthlessness, and/or helplessness
    feelings of hopelessness and/or pessimism
    insomnia, early-morning wakefulness, or excessive sleeping
    irritability, restlessness
    loss of interest in activities or hobbies once pleasurable, including sex
    overeating or appetite loss
    persistent aches or pains, headaches, cramps, or digestive problems that do not ease even with treatment
    persistent sad, anxious, or "empty" feelings
    thoughts of suicide, suicide attempts

    I think what they are saying is this:

    We all go through ups and downs and feeling depressed is part of living life. However, clinically depressed, as far as I can make out, seems to be the consistent, overwhelming feeling of depression that stops you from living your life.

    OK - I have a simple question:

    What triggered it? Is this feeling of depression resulting from an action that you've done or a bad experience? or does it just come like that, for no apparent reason???

    I suffered from depression many years ago, and it was definately an attack from Satan, but it wasn't clinical. It wasn't clinical because i'm usually laughing around, joking around, and happy - and an awful event in my life triggered this.

    Now, I dealt with it by changing friends, leaving Church, and just trying my best to have fun, and to keep my mind off of what had caused the depression. But the friends I had just exacerbated the condition. I can't really call them friends. The Church I went to was so bad, that IF i felt like committing suicide, they'd have all helped in pushing me over the edge anyway.

    The servants, the main characters in that Church were so bad, that you are surrounded by judgemental, unwelcoming, unsypathetic people all the week.

    But what I learnt was this: Don't personalise things.

    We tend to personalise events. That servant is being rude to me because of me. No. That servant is rude, even if he's a priest, he is rude because HE IS RUDE. Period.

    I remember a few weeks ago, I had a chat with a friend of mine who used to go that Church. I asked him how everyone was doing. He said : "They (the servants) are STILL the cause of misery in everyone's life".

    There was a priest that was once SO rude to me. I couldnt believe it. I mean, i only met the man twice and he was extremely abusive. You cannot imagine.

    After 7 years, this priest is now forbidden to work in several countries due to the fact that he was aggressive to others. Had I known to what extent he was rude to others, I'd have not taken it personally. Its when you personalise a problem or an insult that it becomes hurtful.

    All these events COULD trigger depression. If it is an event, you need to find a way to overcome it.

    We all have to find ways to get over stressful periods in our lives. The youth in a Church may not necessarily be the right answer. In my situation, they were causing the depression than actually solving or adding anything in my life.

    I think what I should have done was to just go to a monastery or stay there for a week. Maybe in a Catholic monastery where they give you your own room.

    That would have been the wisest thing to do (in hindsight)

  • Hi my friend,

    I can really understand how an experience can change you drastically. I really can.

    However, I want to tell you something you need to consider:

    The people who had done a lot of evil to me, they repented for it. I admit that. However, between the time they repented and the action itself (what they did) was around 8 years. Yes, it took them 8 years to repent for it. Some still haven't.

    I ask myself: What right do these people have in determining my destiny? Should I really have allowed people, who probably don't even care about me, to direct what my life should be?

    Hence, the solution would have been to forgive. In forgiveness, you are empowered to decide for yourself what your destiny is for your life, not the irresponsible actions of others. When you don't forgive, when you have a need for justice, or when the desire for justice exceeds the ability to forgive, you are essentially allowing the irresponsible actions of others to direct your life.

    Forgiveness isn't easy. Its not even logical. Someone telling you to "forget" about what happened isn't really helpful. How?

    As a Christian, we must be Christ-driven.

    It wasn't God's intention that Joseph be sold to the Egyptians and work for them as a slave, and have his father, Jacob, think that his most beloved son had died. That wasn't God's idea of a good time. It was the cruelty, irresponsibility of his brothers.

    However, at the end of the story, we see that Jacob was even thankful for this experience because, through it, he was able to save his brothers, and the entire country also from famine.

    God uses perhaps our bad experiences for His Glory. Joseph didn't spend all his life dwelling on the injustices he was faced. He was imprisoned even for being righteous. One could argue and say "Why is he so devout and sincere to His God? His God appears to have left him".

    On the contrary, His God, because Joseph was righteous rewarded him.

    You have to believe and never doubt that although God uses our bad experiences for His Glory, He isn't the cause of our misery. I'm saying this because the attack from Satan would be to tell you JUST that. The result of believing this nonsense - that God IS the cause of your problems, would let you end up doing something UNHoly or UNrighteous. "God has left you, so what's stopping you from leaving Him?"

    And hence, you could end up with suicidal thoughts.

    This is all dispair and from Satan.

    Pray and do not ask for justice. Ask for peace, and you will have it. If you sincerely want to have peace, where peace is not the most logical or natural state you could be expected to be in, then through God's grace, you should pray for peace. That's all you need.

    Justice doesn't give you anything anyway. Revenge only makes you as low as the other person, and hatred only makes you depressed.

    Don't think this is easy for me to write this stuff. I know how you feel. But read the story on the Son of Hamas. He came to the conclusion that the ONLY way to have peace is to forgive and love your enemies.
    Logically, even without Islam in the equation, it is very hard to love the Israelis for what they've done to the Palestinians. It is also hard to love the Palestinians for what they've done to themselves. But what he needs is peace. You won't find it , nor have it if you seek revenge, or justice.

  • That's great GodisLove,

    But, I am concerned that you are unwittingly empowering them to direct your life. If someone is careless with your life, going off and committing suicide is a sign that you've allowed their actions to determine your destiny or what your plans for your life are.

    Be righteous and God will reward you for that. Its not easy. I know.

    How did you want God to fix your problem?
  • May the Lord have mercy on you.

    I do think you should get some medical advice because many of our problems are not only spiritual because we are not only spiritual but physical and so we are also influenced by our physical condition.

    There could well be hormonal and chemical issues which are adding to the burden of emotion, and so you need to get that checked out.

    God bless you and watch over you.

    Father Peter
  • [quote author=GODlovesme link=topic=9819.msg120229#msg120229 date=1286360525]
    My suicidal thoughts started with them but they are fueled by a lot of other things...I haven't had any recently, they come and go.  I guess I wanted God to fix my problem by making the guys say sorry and then make it normal but I suppose that can never happen, at least not in the next 30 years...and I wanted him to fix it by allowing me to forget about the things that have happened, which hasn't happened either.

    Don't ever let your happiness depend on a condition that someone has to apologise. If they apologise, or if you want them to apologise, you haven't in fact forgiven. This is normal.

    Expecting people to apologise for their shortcomings is not a bad thing. But, it is essentially searching for justice.

    This is what I'm saying: your life is being directed by the ability of someone to say "sorry" to you, to the point it could depress you.

    Now, that is absolutely normal, and its a normal feeling. Entirely. So, are you going to live half-happy until you get an apology?

    Expecting and wanting an apology is a form of seeking justice. You know that they know that they've hurt you and they are conscious of their error. But when the need for such justice overtakes your life, it means that you haven't forgiven.

    Forgiveness is not an easy subject. How on earth do you forgive?

    If you are asking God to "fix" this problem, and your idea of "fixing" it is that they apologise, then you'll never be happy.

    They'll never apologise.

    I realised, at a late stage in my life, that my faith is not about justice. Christianity isn't about justice, nor seeking justice. Islam is more along those lines. Christianity is about healing. Being "healed".

    That's it.

    When my son hurts his head on any object, he comes to me crying and screaming. We have to go up to that object, whether it be a table, chair, wall, anything, and hit it ... and say to him: "BAD WALL!!!" or "BAD CHAIR!!!" or "BAD TABLE!!!"

    When we go up to God and tell him we have been hurt by our brother, his own creation: what would you have Him do? He cannot force people to change. He cannot go and slap his other son because he hurt you. He cannot do that. You wouldnt do that.

    As a father, or mother, the most you're going to do is to take your son, kiss his head and say "there there... there there... ahhh... its not a big deal.. don't worry. DONT PLAY WITH THE TABLE AGAIN"!

    That's the most God is going to tell you, or do for you.

    The hurt you have won't be made better if they say sorry. Trust me. It won't be made better if God hits them.
    But like any parent, I'd tell my kids to not play in an area where they can get hurt, or where they've been hurt before.

    I would tell you the same.

    Stay away from them as far as possible.

    Don't hate them, don't expect an apology, and don't live your life hoping for one. You have the right to be happy, and your happiness should not depend on whether someone apologises to you or not. You're going to get hurt again and again in life, and if you expect an apology from everyone, then you're going to go crazy.

    But on the bright side, look at it this way. If ever you have offended or hurt anyone, sure, say sorry to them, but then forgive yourself also. Don't go and kill yourself over it either.

    Fr. Peter,

    I agree. I entirely agree. However, I know for a fact that clinical depression can be onset by such situations if they are not dealt with immediately. They become habits and part of the character if it continues - and that's according to WebMD!!

    So, ultimately, they become medical conditions that started out as spiritual trials.

  • [quote author=GODlovesme link=topic=9819.msg120236#msg120236 date=1286366407]
    Thank you Fr. Peter, please keep me in your prayers always.

    Yes, I have come to that unfortunate conclusion that they will never apologize.  I thought I had forgiven them but reading your post, I think again, maybe I haven't.  So how does one go about forgiving someone?  I did wish harm on one of them once (although I never prayed for that to happen) but at this point in my life I don't think that I would like to see it carried out.  How does one know that they have forgiven a person?  How does one attain healing?  How can I better deal with this?

    lol.. you're really sweet.


    I knew you could not have forgiven them.

    Look, when you forgive, you're doing yourself a favour. You're living in the freedom that God designed for you. If you haven't forgiven, you've gained nothing other than a high blood pressure and potential psychological dammage.

    So how do you forgive? That's the next logical question?

    This is God's Grace and you have to pray for it. Its not a natural human instinct to forgive, yet it is essential for your own well being.

  • You're welcome,

    Believe me, to forgive anyone is hard. There's no magical words I can write to teach you, or me how to forgive. This is a grace from God.

    The same with love. We can pretend we love each other, but its hard. 50% of the divorce rate in Europe is a lack of love between couples. We cannot even love our partners, you think we're going to love our enemies?

    Love, Forgiveness, Patience, ... any virtue, is a Grace from God. Its not something you'll be able to achieve because you "think" you are a good person or you "think" you have a good heart.

    It is from God, and you should pray for that.

    Good luck!!
  • I just wanted to say that webMD depression quiz is baloney. I only answered #2 & 6 as "no" and apparently I'm at "Higher Risk You may be at risk for major depression. " Uhh... no.

    Anyways, GODlovesme... whenever I feel depressed I just remind myself of Jesus' words when He said to build your house on the rock (ie live as Christ lived). Then even though the storm may blow hard on the house, in the end all will be well. One of the saints (I forget who) said on his way to his beheading: "though I lose my head, I shall come to no harm." I always remind myself of those words. Basically, if God is with us, who is against us?
  • [quote author=sodr2 link=topic=9819.msg120244#msg120244 date=1286377458]
    I just wanted to say that webMD depression quiz is baloney. I only answered #2 & 6 as "no" and apparently I'm at "Higher Risk You may be at risk for major depression. " Uhh... no.

    Anyways, GODlovesme... whenever I feel depressed I just remind myself of Jesus' words when He said to build your house on the rock (ie live as Christ lived). Then even though the storm may blow hard on the house, in the end all will be well. One of the saints (I forget who) said on his way to his beheading: "though I lose my head, I shall come to no harm." I always remind myself of those words. Basically, if God is with us, who is against us?

    Yeah, OK sod, I still feel there is no harm if gets a professional opinion. It could be something minor.

  • depression is a very easily used word... as previously mentioned by all means go to a professional, you need it... but also keep in mind that the professional will give you drugs, and these drugs will have effect on you,and will lead to other problems... so be picky in the drugs that are taken.

    also in psychology when it comes to symptoms, the symptoms itself have to give you a problem through yourlife... for example, you are having sex, and you cannot perform it due to lack of interest in sex... and not due to the fact that your partner didnt due this thing that you really like... so observe your symptoms and see why you are having it, is it due to chemical imbalance or because of the atmosphere around you?!

    so here are the symptomes according to the DSM (my bestfriend, APA)

    1. depressed mood most of the day, nearly every day, as indicated by either subjective report (e.g., feels sad or empty) or observation made by others (e.g., appears tearful). (In children and adolescents, this may be characterized as an irritable mood.)

    2. Markedly diminished interest or pleasure in all, or almost all, activities most of the day, nearly every day

    3. Significant weight loss when not dieting or weight gain (e.g., a change of more than 5 of body weight in a month), or decrease or increase in appetite nearly every day.

    4. Insomnia or hypersomnia nearly every day

    5. Psychomotor agitation (an increase in activity brought on by mental tension.
    Symptoms may take the form of restlessness, pacing, tapping fingers or feet, abruptly starting and stopping tasks, meaninglessly moving objects around, and more. Psychomotor agitation is frequently, though not exclusively, associated with agitated depression) or retardation nearly every day

    6. Fatigue or loss of energy nearly every day

    7. Feelings of worthlessness or excessive or inappropriate guilt nearly every day

    8. Diminished ability to think or concentrate, or indecisiveness, nearly every day

    9. Recurrent thoughts of death (not just fear of dying), recurrent suicidal ideation without a specific plan, or a suicide attempt or a specific plan for committing suicide.

    see what you have and what you dont have, dont be hasty, and go to a professional, but dont just go to anyone...

    neshkor Allah, akhadna el baraka!
  • GODlovesme,

    I'm with sodr2.
    If you had depression one of the diagnostic things I know of is this: it is usually worse in the morning, then it gets much less symptomatic gradually till its almost not there towards evening. This is not exactly what you described before.

    I do not think you have a clinical depression but a much less severe mood of sadness conveyed by feelings of being abused, your hurt pride, loneliness and some guilt.

    The devil pushes us to feel unhappy and non satisfied, or to an illusion of excessive false happiness followed by a sudden drop so we'll feel lost with a sense that something is always missing, a feeling of emptiness. This is used again by the devil to drive the suicidal ideas.

    You can seek medical advice but I strongly recommend your doctor should be a practicing Orthodox Christian (to keep things on your wavelengths), though you should first notify your FOC and your parents. We may also learn from our mistakes to not rely on our feelings alone: do not assume that any person is 100% trustful - also beware of hypnosis sessions.

    Eat balanced diets! I am praying for you may the Lord help you to overcome all this. Pray more frequently smaller prayers and make matanias. Because He loves His children God is our source of hope and happiness.

  • just saw the thread today, some seriously good advice here  :)

    i would also add that it's good to talk to your father of confession to say, i have some problems forgiving someone and am feeling low, and most priests will give good spiritual advice specific to you (you shouldn't have to give too much detail). if you aren't able to do that, look for a spiritual (usually) older person in church, someone who serves a lot without expecting any reward, someone who is loving and listens well and who knows the Bible well and ask that person some general advice about forgiveness. don't say anything personal at first, this is how you check out if they are good at listening and giving advice. if they can guess there is a problem (and if you don't hear about everyone else's problems from this person!) then tell that person a bit more about you and your problem.
    this is my method for finding out who is good to talk to.

    also, try to generally hang out with people like this. eg one week i was feeling a bit low, and i knew my friend (church servant) was going to be washing up in the church kitchen, so i planned to hang out with her and stay in the kitchen with her.
    she didn't know i was feeling a bit lonely, she just thought i was helping out! probably she will know if she reads this!  ;)
    i didn't even tell her any problems, it was just nice to hang out with someone encouraging. we all need this occasionally.
    there are lots of clearing and tidying occasions in the church where you can meet cool people, and maybe you will encourage someone else you meet when doing this!

    may God guide you, He knows the problem and He will lead you to the right people. just don't go off and try anything dodgy (yoga, meditation, hypnosis etc).
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