Marrying an American

edited December 1969 in Personal Issues

My fiance is American and we were wondering if the church could object or deny us the marriage? He wants to become an Orthodox and be baptized, I heard many different priests views on it, saying it's sinful? and others said just get him baptized and get a paper that proves he's never been married before.

Does anyone know what I should do, or believe according to this? I don't see why marrying from another country could be wrong if both belong to the same Church.

Thank you very much.
Blessings in Christ.

Comments

  • The key word you said is "belonging to the same church".  This process does not happen overnight.  The process as you mentioned is nominal and does not incorporate one into the Body of the Church.  You did not mention what the fiance's background is.  If he did not have a spiritual life of respect for the Living God, he will not at this point.

    The equation is simple:  Man + Woman + God = good marriage.  If any part in the equation is missing, no end result.

    I am not saying it is not possible.  In California, there was  a young lady that married an American, and he later became a servant and later ordained a priest serving in California.

    From the gist of the post you made (pardon me for being a bit lewd, but) it does not seem like it makes a difference to you.  It seems like you are looking for wrapping paper to make the package look good.
  • I clearly said "He WANTS to be a coptic" that means he believes in what we believe, please don't judge others that is such an awful and horrible trait that only Pharisees used to do when Jesus would sit around sinners.

    I forgive you and I'll be praying for you alot.
  • Thanks, but it doesn't change the matter.  You don't become Orthodox overnight.  Coptic is one thing, Orthodox is another.  You can be Orthodox and not eat moulokhia or fava beans.

    I was just mentioning some of the pitfalls. Why would a priest say it is sinful?  I have never heard that one.  It is sinful when the process is nominal.

  • I'm not sure why he'd say that, like I said, other priests said that it was OK. He just needs to get baptized.

    The priests don't know anything about my fiance, they were talking in general. My fiance is a good Christian, he is originally a baptist, he just wanted to know what is the right way to become a Coptic. I was asking not because it was a "wrapping paper" like you've described it, I wanted to follow the Coptic church. Your thoughts are well received.
  • The general format from Bishop Paula, who is in charge of marriage/annulments/divorce issues is that the preference for a time of instruction, as a catechumen, prior to the matrimonial sacrament being carried out.

    As I said, or inferred, baptism is not the only portion of acceptance for an adult of Orthodoxy.
  • No..there is absolutely nothing wrong with marrying an American if he even will join the church...
    we have a bunch of people who married an american and joined the church...and they actually turned out to be amazing servants =]
  • of course its not sinful or
    abouna wouldnt allow the marriage
    or to let your fiance get baptized
  • I heard many different priests views on it, saying it's sinful?

    not at all. many many people get married to partners who convert to orthodoxy
  • have someone ask your fiance, that if (God forbid) you were to break up, would he still want to be baptized?
    an HONEST answer to this question should determine whether the priest would marry you or not
  • Thats true, if someone foreign gets baptised, then its ok from the church.  However, if you marry a normal marriage and the person doesnt get baptised, then it would cause a huge problem, even exocommunication
  • What is going on here?  When St. Paul says, "There is neither Greek nor Jew, slave nor free, male nor female, but Christ is all and in all" don't you think that includes THIS???
  • Agreed, ofcourse you should be careful with marrying someone outside of the faith, but not very more careful if you marry someone within the orthodox faith. People can still claim to be orthodox while they are not.

    But this is all logical, if you know who you're marrying is good, in general, there should be no problem.
  • If he wishes to be part of the Orthodox Church, it does not matter what country he is from.
    As long as he does go through the process of Joining the church before you ae married I cannot see a problem with this.

    I was about to post a quote about this, but ZanAmrikai has hit it on the head anyway.

    As Long as he is with Christ, it does not matter where he is from.
  • I havent read all the posts, but my abouna said something about this once

    "Is he becoming coptic because he wants to become coptic, or is he becoming coptic to marry you?"
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • if he is converting not only to marry you, but because he is convinced of the Coptic Orthodox Chruch spiritually, historically, and personally, then that is great!

    another poster wisely asked if your fiance would still be converting were he not planning on marrying you, and that may be a good question to consider.
  • [quote author=PropertyOfGod link=topic=8867.msg111114#msg111114 date=1266919621]

    My fiance is American and we were wondering if the church could object or deny us the marriage? He wants to become an Orthodox and be baptized, I heard many different priests views on it, saying it's sinful? and others said just get him baptized and get a paper that proves he's never been married before.

    Does anyone know what I should do, or believe according to this? I don't see why marrying from another country could be wrong if both belong to the same Church.

    Thank you very much.
    Blessings in Christ.


    I have ONE small question, that if you answered it, it would solve ALL your problems:

    If your fiancé does not end up marrying you. If you break off tomorrow, is he still interested in becoming Orthodox? Would he still become Orthodox and get baptised?

    That's what I need to know anyone to advise you.

    (sorry, i just realised someone else asked this), but please answer it anyway.

    I'm surprised anyway, that you are at a position of "engagement" when your fiance is not even Orthodox. It really does not look good. Do you realise that when your fiancé becomes a Christian, he will have Holy Communion.. and IT WILL BE A HUGE MISTAKE, if he takes the communion and does not believe NOR respect that this is the Body and Blood of Christ.

    I know a few priests who baptised people who were going to get married to someone coptic. When the engagement fell through, they never came back to Church again. They didnt care.

    I dislike this very much.
  • i am just wondering, why is this such a big deal?( the general idea not the specific situation)
    Denominations are just different ways to reach the end result (except for mormon etc)
    if one spouse finds the orthodox path her niche to practice her love for God, while the other spouse finds being a baptist is his niche to practice his love for God- why is it such a HUGE deal? we believe in the trinity, not the church- the church is a just like a path to God.
    and marriage is a blessing of God- so shouldn't be based more on spiritual maturity etc?
    I am by no means condemning or trying to hinder his conversion, i personally love the orthodox church and believe it is excellent for finding God- this is just more of a general question.  In addition i understand the complications that it might cause considering each spouse will be doing different things on sundays, and whatever other problems it may ensue.

    i pray that what ever happens is God's will, and therefore good
  • [quote author=jfarag92 link=topic=8867.msg114302#msg114302 date=1273544639]
    i am just wondering, why is this such a big deal?( the general idea not the specific situation)
    Denominations are just different ways to reach the end result (except for mormon etc)
    if one spouse finds the orthodox path her niche to practice her love for God, while the other spouse finds being a baptist is his niche to practice his love for God- why is it such a HUGE deal? we believe in the trinity, not the church- the church is a just like a path to God.
    and marriage is a blessing of God- so shouldn't be based more on spiritual maturity etc?
    I am by no means condemning or trying to hinder his conversion, i personally love the orthodox church and believe it is excellent for finding God- this is just more of a general question.  In addition i understand the complications that it might cause considering each spouse will be doing different things on sundays, and whatever other problems it may ensue.

    i pray that what ever happens is God's will, and therefore good

    noooo denominations are NOT different ways to the same result... I suggest u read this ......    http://stnoufer.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/comparison-between-christian-denominations1.pdf
  • in the end it all comes down to your relationship with God, not whether or not you are orthodox or protestant.  there are people in all the denominations who vary according to our common belief and their churches rules. so how can someone be excluded from heaven b/c they were born into a family that practices their relationship with God different than others, yet still attains a deep and loving relationship with God?
  • [quote author=jfarag92 link=topic=8867.msg114486#msg114486 date=1274143241]
    in the end it all comes down to your relationship with God, not whether or not you are orthodox or protestant.  there are people in all the denominations who vary according to our common belief and their churches rules. so how can someone be excluded from heaven b/c they were born into a family that practices their relationship with God different than others, yet still attains a deep and loving relationship with God?


    With all due respect to you JFarag, I must stress that this is extremely dangerous advice. I would urge to ignore every single letter in his response.

    Biblically, the Bible tells to not be "unequally yoked".

    A protestant and an Orthodox Christian is unequally yoked. If your partner was, say Catholic, I could perhaps disagree, but it would depend on how much they knew about the Orthodox Church. Even then, it is quite hard, as although we have more in common with Catholics than protestants, some may be raised to think that they are only saved by being part of the Catholic Church.

    Why is all this serious??

    It is serious because you will have children, and when you do, the problems will arise.

    I could accept JFarag's argument if either of you were not interested in religion. If he just happened to be protestant, but didnt care about his faith, and you happened to be Orthodox, and you didnt care about it either. However, if Christ is what unites you, then you will be divided over this as a family.

    You will not be able to pray together. Protestants do not accept intercession of saints. You will have to pray privately, or ignore the intercessions of saints. You cannot have communion as a family. You will not be able to baptise your Children. They only believe in salvation by Grace THROUGH faith. We believe in salvation by Grace through the Sacraments AND faith. Faith is start of our journey in Christ, and it is through the sacraments and continual repentance that we achieve our salvation. They do not see things this way!!

    A protestant tells u: "ARE YOU SAVED!"
    An orthodox tells you: "I am BEING saved".

    The entire spirituality is so different, that it may look as if we have lots in common, but in practice, this is not the case.

    JFarag, I cannot judge to know who will go to heaven. But, even if your supposition that denominations are different ways to go to heaven is true (for argument's sake), and they get married, the disputes arising from the differences will be evident.

    If you are Coptic, you will want your icons of Saint Mary in the house. Right? You will want to kiss the cross.. etc.

    Look at our spirituality!!! We kiss crosses, we venerate saints, we believe in sacraments as a means to abide in Christ. They do not. When you walk around your home , you will not be able to kiss an icon of Saint mary. You will not even be allowed to put up an icon of saint mary.

    If you ARE allowed to put an icon of Saint Mary in your home, or kiss a cross, it means that your protestant husband is not such a strong/practicing protestant.

    The closer you are in your faith, the better. So, ideally - someone Coptic Orthodox would be perfect. Then, your next best bet is someone EO --> Then RC.

    What if they are charismatic, and you do not pray in tongues??

    All this is fine when you are friends. But marriage is no joke. This is your life. This is someone you will have to wake up EVERY morning of your life and live with. They will not just vanish.
    You will have to feel at home with how they behave, their manners, their spirituality.

    If you are a practicing Coptic Christian, and they are a practicising protestant Christian, it would mean you may have problems in life with your Children: What denomination will they be??
    If your partner says "Let's let them grow up and let them decide if they wish to be Christian", this will OFFEND ANY Coptic Christian.
    Sure, they can decide when they are older, but given that Christ said "Bring the little Children to Me" - we have enfant baptism. We baptism them, and ensure they have the baptism to be able to enjoy the rest of the life giving sacraments. Your husband, IF he's a devout charismatic protestant Christian, may be dead against this.

    You will be torn.

    So rather than Christ being something that unites you, it will divide you.

    JFarag's advice IS EXTREMELY short sighted.

    I had a friend who was coptic and he room-shared with protestants. Each morning they'd pray together. How nice? Right? But they told him: DO NOT MENTION SAINT MARY WHEN YOU PRAY, and you'll be OK with us.

    lol..

    Is this a Unity?? Can this really be a family you want to be part of????

    I'm ashamed that this particular Christian decided to turn his back on Saint Mary to appease his friends. That is wrong!! You will end up doing the same.

    Like I said, if neither of you are practicing in your faith, you stand a better chance than if you are both strong headed in your respective denominations.

    This is no laughing matter, and the attitude of "these are ways to reach the end result" wreaks of spiritual immaturity, and a lack of knowledge of the apostolic church that we belong to.

    For goodness sake, we are talking about a life long marriage - a committment between 2 persons for the rest of their life, not an evening out with friends in Burger King.
  • If you refer back to my original post you will see i acknowledge the possible complications,
    i just started to veer off topic and talk about different denominations rather than the original question
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