European Court of Human Rights

edited December 1969 in Random Issues
Has anyone here heard the news?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8341573.stm

Apparently, they are banning crucifixes at Schools. Apparently, by having them, we are forcing our views on others who are or could be atheists.

I get the impression that Europe is being governed by politically correct spineless bureaucrats who have an agenda of atheising Europe.

What do you think? Are crosses disturbing to non Christians?

Comments

  • I find it interesting how in America to promote equality in the first amendment we say "congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" while in europe they claim that no one should show their religion to respect each other's beliefs.
    A few years ago i lived in Paris and at school as a fifth grader i was wearing a cross and my classmates always asked me to put inside and that i was not supposed to show it. Also muslims are not allowed to wear the hijab.
    I think this is infringing on people's individual's rights rather than promoting equality.
  • I think this is awful. Crosses should NOT be offending to those with no religion.

    If they have no religion, then they don't have another religion to defend, therefore they should
    not take offense.
    Plus, a cross is something Christians wear around there neck; they don't make people
    (of any religion) not wear a certain type of accessory or clothes.
    Isn't Europe's majority also Christian?
    This no-cross idea is Wrong. So contradictory, but I have also heard about an airport in the U.S. taking down Christmas trees because a rabbi took offense, and one of my teachers in a public school said she technically was not allowed to wear a cross in a public school (but she did and they don't say anything). Additionally, I've heard we couldn't read the Bible in public school,
    but I don't know if this is accurate.
    All of these restrictions are wrong, and any other religion would rebel, maybe violently, but
    I think it will not hold in Europe, because how can they enforce it? Christians cannot think this is okay.
    How are Europeans responding?

    +++

  • [quote author=lsalsa link=topic=8553.msg108174#msg108174 date=1260135770]
    I find it interesting how in America to promote equality in the first amendment we say "congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" while in europe they claim that no one should show their religion to respect each other's beliefs.
    A few years ago i lived in Paris and at school as a fifth grader i was wearing a cross and my classmates always asked me to put inside and that i was not supposed to show it. Also muslims are not allowed to wear the hijab.
    I think this is infringing on people's individual's rights rather than promoting equality.



    I remember that a guy at work in Paris also asked me to hide my cross as it was showing. (my chain had just fallen out from my shirt and the cross was showing).

    He said that it was wrong to show it at work.

    The weirdest thing is this was a French guy. Anyway, he ended up converting to Islam and he married a muslim lady.

    But my point is this:

    Does my existence as a Christian offend any atheists? Because that's what it boils down to. And why is it that their "lack of religion" is forced on me? Why is it they feel they have the right to teach sex education outside a spiritual context of being between husband and wife, whereas we do not have the right to talk about religion in classrooms?

    Where is Europe heading with all this politcal correctness?

    This whole incident started when a mother complained the EU in Strasbourg saying that she wanted to teach her values to her daughter and the crucifix at her school (in Italy) was inhibiting this.

    That's ludicrous.

    The point that annoys me the most is that whilst all this is going on, the Churches are becoming even more divided. So, a response from any Christian organisation is greatly weakened by our lack of solidarity.  The result is that Islam has only room to excel where we are failing. Islam doesn't seem to grow because people believe in it... it grows because they (Europeans) don't care about religion and end up marrying someone muslim.

  • These problems are caused by people who are away from God.

    So, one baby step at a time; God can reach these people through us. Even if it is a seemingly low number.

    Don't get discouraged, EVER! You're right.

    Churches + Christian schools + Christians + the Bible + Spiritual readings+ Faith out of LOVE (God) will get through
    Europe, or any place.

    +++
  • The world government is being setup.  Its this simple.  They have tried to push an age of Nihilism which Father Seraphim Rose has spoken volumes about.  The New World Order is blossoming.  When the world wide economic depression becomes unbearable, I believe that is when Antichrist will come.  He comes with a variety of names.  Maitreya is one.  Perhaps he is featured on the Council on Foreign Relations Logo as follows?

    image

    “And I looked, and behold, a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.”
    -Revelation 6,2

    Its not about human rights, its about replacing Christ with a Humanist Philosophy.
  • I am part of the Constitution Team at my school and my unit focuses on the Bill of Rights and its application.
    So like I said before the first amendment creates a tension as it says that gov't will not establish a specific religion but will also allow free exercise of religion.
    As someone mentioned above, ppl get offended when for example congress places a christmas tree, or for having in god we trust on our currency, or for having the 10 commandments on walls of our supreme court.
    However, the supreme court in Lynch v. Donnelly  said that a xmas tree is ok because it is a neutral way of celebrating. However, they are only allowed to put a creche(manger scene) if they have other neutral decorations next to it.
    It is really weird and it gets really specific depending on the situation
    For example, prayers are banned in graduation ceremonies. But i am pretty sure prayer can be said if does not mention a specific God.
    Sorry if my post seems long and irrelevant but i just wanted to share that with you : )
  • But my concern is this:

    Europe is Christian
    America is Christian.

    These are Christian continents. If they start to lose their identity, then what will be result?

    Do they think that by them being "open minded" it will result in the Middle East also losing its Islamic identity? not at all. By them being secular, would it result in other nations doing the same?

    I definately believe the anti-christ will come from Europe - I think he/she is already here..
  • the end is near, but i think it will be after 2012  ;)
    (for those who saw the film)
    i personally think we should be open about our faith and also allow people from other religions and atheists to share what they believe.
    if someone in a school is offended with a cross, they should not sit right by it but move somewhere else.
    i think muslims and sikhs should also be allowed to wear their religious symbols in public. if we support them in this, they will also work against this secular world view. i think the banning of the hijab in schools in france has fanned the flames of extremism.
    if the atheists force secularism on us, this is not better than us 'forcing' people to look at the sign of the cross, we should explain that their belief system is one of many and cannot take precedence over the other religions.
    we need to keep wearing our crosses (maybe tattoo is better, they can't make you take it off) and keep sharing our faith, but also not tell other people they are stupid for their atheism. that way they can't legitimately attack us, and we can stand firm in what we believe.
    i think we should not worry too much about the antichrist, it will be obvious at the time, and we should be busy living our Christian lives and not being too alarmed by 'wars and rumors of war' (matthew 25)
  • In Australia, the Constitution forbids the Commonwealth (parliament) to make any religion the country's, so Australia is not a Christian or Islamic state, rather secular. Personally, it is preferable for a country to be "secular" and religion be left in churches, mosques and temples. Let governments and parliaments govern the nation in a "non-dogmatic" way, with no religious bias and then the distinction is clearer. Therefore, minority groups (atheism etc.), other religions will not complain and say: Why is Christianity allowed? Why are we not first or take precedence?

    From a political point of view, this is the healthiest of options for a stable democracy, otherwise it will turn to a theocracy. Let alone, politicians won't need to act police religious outlaws, nor waste valuable time to argue whether to ban new minarets from being built instead they could be fixing the economy, increase social cohesion and educate the children. For everything there is a place and a time. 
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