Where does God come from? and athiesm

edited December 1969 in Faith Issues
Please no sunday school answers, i am looking for solid answers for myself and for debates

Where does god come from?
why is athiesm wrong?


  • God is not a creation. We are creation. He is not; He is the Creator. He is eternal, meaning without beginning and end.

    Atheism is false because of many reasons. One of them is that it foolishly suggests that creation would not have a creator. There are many other reasons, but I will leave that opened to people who can speak more knowledgeably on this subject.

    I found a somewhat similar thread on another website in case you are interested: http://copticheritage.org/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=8800&sid=63b62fa67d84eb3b9cb4239b33775694

    God bless
  • Atheists love to ask this question, while not being able to answer it themselves, with faith we can say we do not know, He is self existent. They of course scoff at this, so it is important to ask them where all things come from in a cosmic evolutionary standpoint.
    Now for their whole theory to work, matter has to self exist, but wait, before that space had to exist so that matter could come into existence. Then of course the matter decided to spin, mind you this matter was no bigger than a dot on a page, then it exploded! Its senseless! There is no science whatsoever here, this is faith.

    Atheists also claim that there is no evidence for the existence of Christ, wrong again. There are over 24,000 manuscripts supporting the existence of Christ. Outside the Gospels we have Josephus a Jew, who mentions Christ twice, Tacitus a roman historian, and pliny the younger, another roman historian. There also is NT scholars, all or most accept the existence of Christ, yet are atheist or agnostic themselves, except for Michael Heiser.
    This means that there is more evidence for Christ than socrates, who only has three writings of or about him, two of which were written by his followers. Julius Caesar only has 10!

    The atheist may reply, all these writings were written after Christ, so was every other document in history that records the life of someone, atleast ancient history. We have no documents from the time of caesar written by him or about him, but after him.

    An atheist said to me once " Show me your God and I will show you where the universe began" to which I replied " Show me where your universe ends and I will show you where God begins."
  • http://www.eutimes.net/2007/03/russian-scientists-have-proven-the-miracles-of-god/

    Scientists have proved experimentally the miracle-working properties of the sign of the cross and prayer.

    ‘We have ascertained that the old custom to make a sign of the cross over food and drink before a meal has a profound mystical meaning. Standing behind it is the practical use: the food is purified literally in an instant. This is a great miracle, which happens literally every day,’ physicist Angelina Malakhovskaya said as cited by the Zhizn newspaper on Friday.

    Malakhovskaya have studied that power of the sign of the cross with the blessing of the Church for nearly ten years now. She has carried out a great number of experiments, which have been repeatedly verified before their results were made public.

    She has discovered in particular the unique bactericidal properties of water after being blessed by an Orthodox prayer and a sign of the cross. The study also revealed a new, earlier unknown property of the Word of God to transform the structure of water, increasing considerably its optical density in the short ultra-violet spectral region, the newspaper writes.

    The scientists have verified the impact the Lord’s Prayer and the Orthodox sign of the cross make on pathogenic bacteria. Water samples from various reservoirs – wells, rivers, lakes – were taken for the research. All the samples had goldish taphylococcus, a colon bacillus. It turned out however, that if the Lord’s Prayer is said and a sign of the cross is made over them, the number of harmful bacteria will decrease seven, ten, hundred and even over thousand times.

    The experiments were made in such a way as to exclude a possible impact of mental suggestion. The prayer was said by both believer and non-believers, but the number of pathogenic bacteria in various environments with different sets of bacteria still decreased as compared to the reference templates.

    The scientists have also proved the beneficial impact that the prayer and the sign of the cross have on people. All the participants in the tests had their blood pressure stabilized and blood indexes improved. Strikingly, the indexes changed towards the healing needed: hypotensive people had their blood pressure raised, while hypertensive people had it reduced.

    It was also observed that if the sign of the cross is made offhandedly, with the three fingers put together unscrupulously or placed outside the necessary points – the middle of the forehead, the center of the solar plexus and the recesses in the right and left shoulders – the positive result was much weaker or absent altogether.
  • Moses asked that question, and he was given a very simple answer:  'I have no beginning or origin.' [paraphrase]

    God responded simply:  "I AM".
  • [quote author=ilovesaintmark link=topic=9428.msg116293#msg116293 date=1278684613]
    Moses asked that question, and he was given a very simple answer:  'I have no beginning or origin.' [paraphrase]

    God responded simply:  "I AM".

    Mark that is a wonderful quote, but quoting scripture to an atheist is just as good as speaking spanish to a Russian. We have to use what they believe against them and show them there is proof for many things that we believe. As I showed earlier, they have no room to mock or criticise our view of origins. For instance they say, the big bang happened because we can see the universe expand, we will say but God said he stretched out the heavens. etc
  • Ioannes,

    My reply was just to binC.  I agree with you about the reference point.  I do not believe that atheists exist, just people trying to cover their faults, immorality, and their allegiance with Satan, by saying there is no God.

    Their being in every regard, knows there is a God.

    How can anything created by Him, deny His Presence?
  • [quote author=ilovesaintmark link=topic=9428.msg116306#msg116306 date=1278695146]

    My reply was just to binC.  I agree with you about the reference point.  I do not believe that atheists exist, just people trying to cover their faults, immorality, and their allegiance with Satan, by saying there is no God.

    Their being in every regard, knows there is a God.

    How can anything created by Him, deny His Presence?

    Actually Mark I have to disagree with your view of atheists. While their may be some who are indeed under the spell of satan, I believe most of them have a deprived soul, and their soul is crying out for Christ. So by doing the direct opposite or attacking Him, maybe He will show Himself. I mean what is more logical, believing in a God you cannot see, or attacking one you dont believe exists?

    I did this very study on people like Marilyn Manson. I believe the reason he does what he does is to sort of provoke or challenge God, that even if He may damn them, in that split second they would atleast feel His touch and know that He is there. This is actually how Fr Seraphim Rose explained his situation as an atheist, and I immediately related. As a musician I used to shave my head except two places, then I would spike those up into horns. I myself was a nihilist, and constantly challenged God.

    It was only when I asked: " If you are there, please lead me to the truth, no matter what I must go through, I want the truth, I want to know you." I got my wish.

    So it is ill advised to make such blanket statements and to look down on them as opposed to looking down on their belief. This is why we must educate ourselves in their area and debate them on their battlefield. It has worked well for me thus far.
  • Ioannes,

    I hear your point of view, but I feel that there is a Satan inspired aspect to it.  Even when referring to John Milton in Paradise Lost (granted it is literature and not Biblical or Patristic), one can see the aspects of defiance and challenge, as you describe, but not without the aspect of arrogance in Satan's nurture.

    My comment was solely to present that there is no such thing as an atheist, it is a non-belief and attempt at non-existence that is inconsistent with the being of existence.  If you catch my drift.
  • Mark, totally understand your point of view. I believe that protestantism is also inspired by the devil, however it certainly doesnt make all protestants bad. I do believe that many do yearn for Christ, just as atheists. But because their mind has been warped by pseudo-science they are unable to see past their flawed reasoning. " The reasoning of mortals is worthless and their design flawed." Wis 9:14
  • I like that verse.  I will file it for use on my co-workers.
  • If an reasonable atheist is seeking to know if God really exists and honestly willing to accept what God will reveal to her/him, you can use science to counteract the 'pseudoscience' that blurs the Truth from them.

    Like Ioannes replied, I suggest to tell them that God wants to communicate with them but they must first ask Him to do so because He values their choice towards Him and respects the free will He gave us. Explain that God uses many ways to communicate with us and that He opens our eyes on things we may never notice otherwise.

    After that invite them to watch these scientific documentaries,with some concentration:

    Unlocking the Mystery of Life (honest science for a change)

    The Privileged Planet

    The Case for a Creator

    Tell them that God is Life, He made it (DNA is the ultimate proof that God created life) and that many more researches made by honest scientists from everywhere are added everyday.

    Tell them that science leads to the proof of the existence of God, that it is God who designed, made and put together everything. Tell them also that mankind has spoiled many good things.

    Let them humbly ask God to reveal His Love to them.
    Pray eagerly for them that God's Grace acts in them, and His Will be done.

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