The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. (Mormon)

edited December 2004 in Faith Issues
the mormon church is the most spreading religion in the world apparently, and they seem to be very commited, as they all have to go preach for 2 years.
now i met one yesterday, and we obviously debated, and they believe in very weird detailed stuff, like pre-existance, wat i really need is imformation from the bible and the book of mormon, (they believe in both) to use with him, as we decided to trade email addresses and coninue the debate, so any imformation u guys have would be very helpful.
Please pray for this young man, that God may reveal Himself to him.


  • i need all the help i can get, cause this guy im debating with, around my age, is a priest.
  • :)

    I've been doing alot of research on the Mormon church and Joseph Smith lately{as well as ww2, Hos}and would be glad to help you as much as I can.Just post your question and I will help you answer it as best I can.
  • thnx buddy,
    but im the one that needs to start this debate with him, so how shood i go about doing this?
    wat shood i start with?
  • Nice people... they gave me a free bible.
  • I don’t think you should start debating.... something I am always told by my priest is don’t talk to these people,

    If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work. (2 John 1:10-11)

    my priest also told me this because I use to invite the Mormons in my house all the time.... also by starting a debate, you are inviting the devil to come and mess with you, I had a kid in my school, we were friends, and we use to hang out, but he is a devout Mormon, but when it came to religious talks, I never stayed, because if you stay you will hear these stories, and you will meditate, so pretty much you are inviting the devil to come and have a cup of coffee with ya... but the sad thing is the devil stays, and stays... very hard to kick out of your mind...
    I don’t hate Mormons, I like them I am friends with many, and two of which, are in their ministry, but when it comes to religion, they always know I will leave the area, because it’s a waste of your time.... they will not become Coptic, except by the holy Spirit, not my negotiation.

    Only my thoughts, do what You think is RIGHT.... But think about how TRICKY the DEVIL is.
  • thnx bishoy, but i had a long talk with him last nite, and i reserched alot bout, and trust me, i wont be the one converting, we really havent called it a debate, we're really just asking questions bout it, ur right i cant do it on my own, but if i pray and talk to him, it may be God's will to reveal himself to him....
    so ill do my part leave the rest to God.
    so plz more information would be gr8.
  • it took me all morning to type this out, but this is was the Coptic Theological Collage summerised about the Mormon belief, or should i say cult.
    this is wat they believe in, so even if u dont know anything bout Mormonism here are all the basics so u guys can help me out:

    -Mormons believe in the plurality of gods.
    -God was created as a man by another God, but by self-perfection, this man finally evolved into absolute Godhead.
    -God is believed to be a limited holy man, not a spirit, who is an organised being just as we are who are now in the flesh. He is a progressive being, and possesses capacity of eternal increase. Perhaps once a child and mortal like our selves.
    -God was in need of salvation.
    -All humans become gods when they reach “exaltation�

    -Jesus is a created being.
    -Jesus is not unique in nature:
    Christ was unique in nature in only one way-by his physical birth. Rather than having a merely human father as the rest of us on this earth, His mother had physical sex with God (Elohim). (J.F Smith, Doctrines of salvation, Vol. 1 p. 18)
    -Jesus is the brother of Satan.

    -He “can only be in one place at one time� although he “emanates from Deity� like electricity or universal ether which fills the earth and the air and is everywhere present� (McConkie, MD,pp. 359, 753)

    -“Adam fell that men might have joy� (II Nephi 2:25)
    -“We ought to consider the fall of our first parents as one of the great steps to external exaltation and happiness�. (Mormon Catechism)

    Believe that humans had a “premortal� life, refered to as the “pre-existence�. This is a spiritual state where people are considered as God’s spirit children. Although this provided the “opportunity to grow, mature and learn many eternal truths from the Heavenly Father�, it was insufficient to enable them to “be more like God�
    -Spirit children are born in the in the “celestial kingdom� by exalted beings who have become gods who sexually beget spirit children with their celestial wives.
    -To fulfil God’s “Plan of Salvation� for them to reach their full devine potential of “exaltation�, spirit children need to:
    •   Receive a physical body
    •   Gain experience from overcoming trials and temptations.
    •   Learn to walk by faith
    •   Learn to choose between good and evil.
    -This basis on which Mormons justify polygamy and claim that marriages are eternal. That is, the more wives, the more children, the more bodies to inhabit, the better.

    Mormonism teaches that the Lord Jesus’ “self sacrifice� purely died to bring about the physical resurrection from the dead. However they claim that it did not actually purchase full salvation for anyone. Mormons claim that it made earning salvation possible through one’s own good works.

    Mormonism teaches that Jesus will come again in the Millennium, reign on earth and have the headquarters of his kingdom in a mormon temple in Jackson County Mo.

    Mormons believe in 2 categories of Salvation:
    Cat. 1 General salvation-based upon grace to which all men are entitled since it is simply the resurrection from the dead into immortality.

    Cat. 2 Individual Salvation-based upon good works which entitles a person to enter one of 3 levels of heaven:

    Level 1: Telestial Kingdom-This is the lowest level. It is the place for the wicked and are excluded from the presence of God and Christ.

    Level 2: Terrestrial Kingdom-The second sphere, will be inhabited by “accountable persons (lukewarm Mormons, good non-Mormons, those who accepted Mormonism after death) who die without law.
    Level 3: Celestial Kingdom-the highest sphere for those who have lived in complete obedience to the gospel law.
  • I agree with Bishoy. I would avoid any kind of a debate, although you must be prepared to explain the faith and hope you have in our risen Lord Jesus Christ. You need to witness to the true Gospel by your life not through debate and arguing fine points of scripture vs. the Book of Mormon.

    My priest often tells people to come and see the Divine Liturgy because if you see how we worship you will see what we believe.

    The only question I would have for the Mormon is whether or not he thinks that the Holy Spirit lies. If the Holy Spirit cannot and does not lie, then there can be only one truth about God and His Son Jesus, heaven, salvation, etc. My next question would be whether or not he thinks that Christ lied to His deciples. If He did not, then your Mormon friend, in the name of Truth, must absolutely read the early Church fathers and see what they say. Since many of their writings read like scripture, ours not their Book of Mormon, then that should be quite a good start.

    Claudia Macrina
  • thnx claudia... ;)
    nice name, very american.
  • :)

    this is wat they believe in,

    Some of the things you listed were taught by Joseph Smith but have since been repudiated by the church of latter day saints.Modern day mormonism has "evolved" over the years.Even in the Mormon church there is diversity and conflicting viewpoints regarding the Mormon faith and the writings of Joseph Smith.

    You would have to ask the young Mormon missionary exactly what they believe and then compare that with your list.Then you would have a better idea where he's coming from and what his beliefs really are.I've seen that list you used before{lol... I've probably quoted it before and used it when talking with mormon missionaries} and I think there are some things on it that are accurate but I also feel that some of it is misleading and innacurate.As I stated before,my advice to you would be to show him your list and ask him to comment on and explain his mormon faith.Then you will be able to respond in a knowledgable and forthright manner. ;D

  • Quote:
    If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work. (2 John 1:10-11)

    What teaching is John speaking of here?The context makes it abundantly clear:"That Jesus Christ has come in the flesh".If a person does not accept this teaching then you are not to recieve them into your house or give them a greeting.This passage does not refer to those who disagree on doctrinal issues within the christian faith but rather those outside the body of Christ.Someone may say, "Dont Muslims believe that Jesus came in the flesh"?Yes they do but they do not recognize Jesus as the"Christ",the messiah of God,the redeemer and savior of the world.When you believe that Jesus is the Christ,"the annointed one",you also believe in everything the annointed one entails,ie. Son of God,Savior,Reedemer,etc.

    Please dont use this verse as an excuse not to share your faith or fellowship with those who disagree with you.The Apostle Peter said,"...always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you". How are you going to obey this verse if your always afraid of speaking with unbelievers or those of differing viewpoints regarding the teaching of Christ?Guard yourself to be sure but trust in the power of the LORD!He is your shield and refuge!The LIGHT cannot be extinguished and overpowered by darkess.The TRUTH cannot succumb to the lie.God be praised!
  • franklin my friend, thankyou very much, that was beautiful and inspiring...
    thnx alot.
  • It is good to share your faith with Christ, and I hope through His strength and your doing you can bring your friend to Christ. Be careful though, those that are sent to minister are well equipped with knowledge and information that may cause you to trip/stumble if you cant reply properly. Their whole purpose is to convert people and will try everything they can in order to do so. I'm not saying you will convert, God forbid, I know you have strong faith and love in Christ, but be aware that they have tricks up their sleves.

    If you guys live close to each other, I suggest talking to a servant/priest about this issue and inviting them and your friend to your house where you guys can talk/debate anything that comes up, this way you're not left to on your own should somthing surprising come up. It would be a friendly chat that you all can benifit from.
    Talk to your father of confession and let him know what you're doing, he might have great advice that you cant get here.

    Good luck with everything and may God bless what you're doing!

    Take Care...
  • mormons really really really annoy me...especially there commericals on television...they seem lyk such a great religious group and the commericals are amazing in displaying love and wat not...and at the end they say "or ask your mormon" for the tape or bible...that annoys me because its all an illusion...they really arent what they say to be....i once when to a mormon church in Florida thinking it was a Catholic Church...thats how believable it was...and it was beautiful...but i later found out that it was a fake religion....the man that started it all was John was said that one day( out of no where) The Father and the Son...which is impossible....appeared togther and told him that he was the one choosen to spread Christianty...reminds you of anything....Islam...and how Muhammad was visited by angel garbiel....yet there is no proof for either incidents.. and mormons believe in polygamy...having more then one is that supposed to be right in a christian faith... and they believe that hell is that bad of a place and after a few thousand years if you're good you could go to purgatory...and then if you pay ur time in a while you could enter could one do that????does that even make sense????......and during worshipping they wear green aprons symbolizing Adam and reality they are worshipping the devil.....and the reason why it is a wide-spreading religion is because they cheat their way into hearts of people....they lure people in with their desires...and there have been incidents when if a person left the mormon community they were killed.....bishop sourial had a lecture on this....its has much more information then i could possibly give you....i'll see if i could find it... :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
  • thnx alot aruba, very help, if u can find the lecture than that wood be awsome!!
  • more info:


    1. Mormonism.

    Mormonism, known as The Church of The Lord Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints or LDS (with headquarters in Salt Lake City, Utah -- a state that is now 70% Mormon), was officially founded in 1830 by Joseph Smith Jr. (1805-1844). Smith claimed to have had a personal visit from God the Father at the age of 15, who introduced him to Christ. The Lord Jesus Christ then supposedly told him not to join any church because they were all wrong and all the Christian church's doctrines "were abominations" (Joseph Smith -- History 19, Pearl of Great Price). After Smith's murder in 1844, Brigham Young took the cult to Utah, where there is now a major University named after him, and the number of Mormons exceed one million. The Mormon Church currently claims about 11 million baptized members worldwide (5.2 million U.S., ranking it 5th among the largest 25 U.S. denominations), up from about 2.5 million in 1970. Over the last decade, nearly 300,000 individuals over the age of eight have joined the Mormon Church every year. Membership is expected to grow to over 23 million over the next two decades. It is growing fastest in Latin America and Asia. Official publications include Church News, a weekly 16-page newspaper, and the Ensign, a monthly magazine. The Mormon Church collects at least $6 billion a year from its members, and generates at least another $5 billion in sales from its various business enterprises. Its total church assets exceed $30 billion. (At least 100 companies are controlled by the Mormon Church, and some estimate its total annual revenues in excess of $20 billion! The church also owns 18 radio stations in the U.S.) Part of the Church's income goes to operate an elaborate internal welfare system so its members avoid any governmental assistance. The Mormon Church also has a 58,000-plus missionary force working in more than 160 nations in 102 languages. The Church's Provo, Utah, 26-acre Missionary Training Center receives 500 new missionaries a week into its 3-9 week intensive missionary training program. (All boys, once they turn 19, are expected to dedicate two years of their lives to missionary service.) Fielding missionaries is a $500 million per year effort and currently reaps more than 300,000 new converts each year. Nevertheless, only about 46% of Mormons attend a church meeting at least once a month. The clean-cut image that Mormons have attained has been a major factor in the attractiveness of the Mormon Church to outsiders. They are forbidden to drink coffee, tea, and alcoholic beverages, and use tobacco products. The Mormon Church (LDS) is organized so that one prophet leads the church. Beneath the prophet in authority is the Council of the Twelve Apostles. A third group of men are called the First and Second Councils of the Seventy. All of these men together are called the General Authorities. Local churches are called Wards or Stake Centers and meet for worship in what the Mormons call "meeting houses." The Temples are not for worship, but are used for ceremonies for the living and the dead. Less than ten percent of all LDS members are allowed to enter these structures.
    As of year-end 2002, there were 114 operating temples of Mormon worldwide, with another 14 under construction or approved (albeit less elaborate than the 50 temples in existence at the end of 1997). Approximately 65,000 members must be in an immediate area to qualify for a temple. Temples are required for Mormon marriages and for proxy baptisms of ancestors. Most people assume Mormon temples are places of worship. This is not true. Only secret, occult rituals for the living and the dead are performed there, and Mormons think they must perform them to have eternal life. It is tragic that over eleven million Mormons think they need secret handshakes, oaths, incantations, and rituals, which originated in occultic Scottish Rite, in order to be with God in heaven! (In the final years of Joseph Smith Jr.'s life, he became a "worshipful master" in the Masonic Lodge). Below are the highlights of what Mormons believe concerning their source of authority, the Trinity, God, Christ, the Holy Spirit, sin, salvation, and heaven and hell:

    2. Source of Authority.

    Mormonism teaches that the canon of Scripture was not closed when the Bible was completed. They have three sources in addition to the Bible, all of which they believe contain God's revelations -- the Book of Mormon (changed in more than 4,000 places since 1830), Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price. However, Mormons follow the teachings of these three books even when they contradict the Bible. For example, Mormonism teaches that the Bible is the Word of God "as far as it is translated correctly." Then whenever a Mormon belief contradicts Scripture, the Mormons say that particular part of Scripture is translated incorrectly, and that the correct translation is in one of the Mormon scriptures (The Maze of Mormonism, p. 131). Thereby, the Bible is rejected as the infallible Word of God.

    3. Trinity.

    Mormonism teaches polytheism (versus monotheism taught in the Bible), believing that the universe is inhabited by many gods who produce spirit children.
    Joseph Smith declared, "I will preach on the plurality of Gods. I have always declared God to be a distinct personage. The Lord Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit. And these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370).

    4. God.

    In Mormon theology the god of our planet is believed to have once been a man on another planet. Who through self-effort and the help of his own father-god, was appointed by a counsel of gods in the heavens to his high position as the god of planet Earth. And now has a physical, resurrected, glorified body. Mormonism teaches that through the atonement of Christ and by their good deeds and "holy" living, men can one day become gods, and with their multiplicity of "goddess wives," populate their own planets.

    5. Christ.

    Mormonism acknowledges the divinity of Christ, but as noted above, Mormon doctrine on what constitutes divinity falls seriously short of the Biblical standard.
    Mormonism teaches that The Lord Jesus Christ, Lucifer, and all the demons, as well as all mankind, are actually all spirit brothers and sisters, born in the spirit world as spirit babies to our man-god Heavenly Father and his goddess wives. Mormon leaders have consistently taught that God the Father ("Adam-god") had sexual relations on earth with Mary (his own spirit daughter), to produce the physical body of The Lord Jesus Christ. Early Mormon apostles also asserted that Christ was a polygamist, and that His wives included Mary and Martha (the sisters of Lazarus) and Mary Magdalene.

    6. Holy Spirit.

    In Mormonism, a distinction is drawn between the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit. As LDS Apostle Marion G. Romney stated: "The Holy Ghost is a person, a spirit, the third member of the Godhead" (Ensign, May 1977, pp. 43-44). The sixth LDS prophet, Joseph F. Smith, explains that the Holy Spirit is not a person but rather an impersonal force. He says, "You may call it the Spirit of God, you may call it the influence of God's intelligence, you may call it the substance of his power; no matter what it is called, it is the spirit of intelligence that permeates the universe"
    (Mormon Doctrine, McConkie, pp. 752-753).

    7. Sin.

    In Mormon theology, it is not quite clear how the first humans, Adam and Eve, came to live on this earth and received bodies, but somehow they did and began the process of human procreation, whereby bodies are produced for their spirit children. But at the very beginning of the process of human generation, sin entered necessarily. The earthly bodies of Adam and Eve were intended to be immortal tabernacles for their spirits, "but it was necessary for them to possess through mortality and be redeemed through the sacrifice made by The Lord Jesus Christ that the fullness of life might come." Therefore, they disobeyed God's commands. Since the fall of man was necessary, it became necessary for men to disobey God in order to do His will. Adam's fall, thereby, was a fall “upward�. Concerning the transmission of sin to Adam's posterity, Mormons take a negative position -- they believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression. Having rejected the doctrine of the imputation of the guilt of sin, Latter Day Saints likewise repudiate the transmission of inherent corruption or original sin.

    8. Salvation.

    Mormon theology teaches that the atonement of Christ was essential to our salvation and eternal life with God, but that it is not sufficient. Christ's shed blood on the cross provides for universal resurrection of all people, but does not pay for personal sins; according to Mormonism, only Christ's blood shed in the Garden of Gethsemane atones for personal sin. Besides faith in Christ, complete and permanent repentance of all sin as well as many good works are required. Mormonism also teaches that one must be baptized in water to be saved, and that salvation will also be available in the next world for those "missing-out" in this one. Therefore, Mormons avidly pursue genealogy and practice baptism for the dead.

    9. Heaven and Hell.

    Mormonism teaches that there are three degrees of glory: Celestial (for good Mormons able to cease sinning in this lifetime, Terrestrial (for good people who do not comply with all the teachings of Mormonism), and Telestial (for those who have lived unclean earthly lives). Mormonism teaches that there is a hell, but only for the "sons of perdition," a very small number of souls that cannot be redeemed. According to Mormonism, then, the vast majority of mankind will be "saved," though it should be obvious that no one will make it to the Celestial Kingdom. [Blacks used to be totally out of the equation: "Black people are black because of their misdeeds in the pre-existence" (Three Degrees of Glory, LDS Apostle Melvin J. Ballard, p. 21); "The Negro is an unfortunate man. He has been given a black skin. But that is nothing compared with that greater handicap. He is not permitted to receive the priesthood and the ordinances of the temple, necessary to prepare men and women to enter into and enjoy a fullness of glory in the Celestial Kingdom" (Elder George E. Richards). In 1978, however, the Mormon Church announced that God had lifted his curse from the African race.
    10. Temple Rituals. A typical temple ceremony would take place as follows: "The ritual began in a small cubicle where we had to strip completely. We then put on 'the shield,' a poncho with a hole for the head, but open on the sides (similar to a hospital gown). We went through a series of ‘washings and anointing’, as various parts of our bodies were touched by elderly temple workers who mumbled appropriate incantations over them. Our Mormon underwear, 'the garments,' are said to have powers to protect us from 'the evil one.' It had occult markings, which were so 'sacred' that we were instructed to burn them when the garments wore out. The endowment ceremony mocked all doctrines held to by Biblical Christianity, and Christian pastors were portrayed as servants of Satan. We had to swear many blood oaths, promising we would forfeit our lives if we weren't faithful, or if we
    revealed any of the secrets revealed to us in the temple ceremonies. We were made to pretend by grotesque gestures to cut our throats, chests, and
    abdomens, indicating how we would lose our lives. We were never told who would kill us! The inference was, and history testifies to, that it would be the Mormon priesthood." (Testimony of a former Mormon). [Note: The blood oaths and portrayal of Christian pastors were removed in April of 1990, despite the fact that the ordinance was purported to have been given originally by a revelation and was never to be change)
  • my friends im sorry to bother u, but id really lyk more referances from the bible that goes against their teachings, and if u dont know anything bout mormons, thats call just read the previous and very informative posts on this thread, and see if u know anything that will help.
    thnx soo much
  • iqbal help me out bro...
    give me some info to refute Mormonism.
  • hey.. if u need info on mormons, i have a powerpoint that i had to maek for servants compares the mormon's beliefs with wat the Bible says

    your sister in Christ,
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