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Marriage of other religions

Meena_AmeenMeena_Ameen
edited December 1969 in Coptic Orthodox Church
Guys, I have a seriouse problem... You see, I really love this girl I am with right now, and i can honestly say i have never loved anyone as much as i have loved her, we never get in fights, and i have never felt more loved by anyone else. The only problem is, she is not orthodox, she is christian but not orthodox, shes not a protestant or a catholic, she is "non denominational", I am really scared because I know this is the girl i want to spend the rest of my life with and i know she feels the same way. But we are both very very afriad because were not sure that the orthodox church will allow us to get married. PLease help, wut do i do???

Comments

  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=Meena_Ameen link=topic=5658.msg75448#msg75448 date=1186978388]
    Guys, I have a seriouse problem... You see, I really love this girl I am with right now, and i can honestly say i have never loved anyone as much as i have loved her, we never get in fights, and i have never felt more loved by anyone else. The only problem is, she is not orthodox, she is christian but not orthodox, shes not a protestant or a catholic, she is "non denominational", I am really scared because I know this is the girl i want to spend the rest of my life with and i know she feels the same way. But we are both very very afriad because were not sure that the orthodox church will allow us to get married. PLease help, wut do i do???


    ur right. the Orthodox church wont allow u to get married. so u have 2 choises, maybe 3.
    1 - convert her and get married and live happily ever after.
    2 - choose ur God over her if she says no to convert
    3 - just go marry her, and abanden ur God.

    i don't see any other choise.....
  • Meena_AmeenMeena_Ameen
    im obviously not going to abandon my God, but thats the thing i dont understand about the orthodox church, why cant i Marry her,  she is a christian, she does believe in Jesus, she does believe in the ressurection and death, why is it that just because shes not orthodox i cant marry her. In Gods eyes, there is no such thing as catholic, or orthodox, or protestant, there is no such thing as religion, In Gods eyes, his followers are those who believe in his son and his promise, and those who follow the commandments. So why is it that a christian orthodox cannot marry a non dinominational christian.
  • jydeaconjydeacon
    Actually since she is non-denomenational means she does not take communion. so God will not be happy about that for he did say, whoever does not eat my body and drink my blood cannot have eternal life. so being orthodox is a plus and i am sure is a big deal to God, and that is just one point.
  • Unknown
    It is very important to bring her to the church.
    1. You can get married
    2. You have done a service to God by bringing someone to his church.
    3. Won't have problems with you kids.
        When you have kids what will they be, if they are orthodox then they will not get the whole faith because mostly they are more attached to the mother and she of course not going to teach them the faith.
        Also you said you love THAT IS A LIE how do you love her if you don't want her to go to heaven by being baptized and partaking of the Holy Body and Precious Blood of Christ. RETHINK. God Bless You and guide you to the right decision, pray for me.
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=Meena_Ameen link=topic=5658.msg75451#msg75451 date=1186981025]
    im obviously not going to abandon my God, but thats the thing i dont understand about the orthodox church, why cant i Marry her,  she is a christian, she does believe in Jesus, she does believe in the ressurection and death, why is it that just because shes not orthodox i cant marry her. In Gods eyes, there is no such thing as catholic, or orthodox, or protestant, there is no such thing as religion, In Gods eyes, his followers are those who believe in his son and his promise, and those who follow the commandments. So why is it that a christian orthodox cannot marry a non dinominational christian.


    In God's eyes......u don't know what's in God's eyes!!!

    The only thing we know is what He gave us, the bible, and the apostles He brought to us. anything against that is wrong.

    now in the orthodox church, marriage is a great and holy sacrement. if u don't honor it as it is, u wont get the blessings on earth or up in heaven.

    what ever u said last says that why not just go be a protestant we khalas. what's the point of sacrements since u can only live and get to heaven through faith...only. what ever ur

    saying is protestant talk who just belive in faith with out works to be granted salvation.

    also btw, non-denomenational means that she's just not with any one else but her own. there u go, another protestant.
  • Unknown
    As Augustine said, "If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. "
  • Unknown
    [center]Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.[/center]
    (1 Cor. 13)

    Does the love for this lady (which I am sure is a lovely person) rejoice in the truth?
  • karas7karas7
    great question i feel ur pain man but i a question to you first is how old are u are u older than 21 yrs or not.????
    i am  guess the answer is a no.
    funny u never mention why she would nt turn orthodox or waht she views where she stands in faith???? ???

    i can see from some of ur previous posts that this person that NOW ur R supposedly in LOVE wit has been influencing  u for some time now i hope she has helped u learn a lot more about ur faith.

    now first u must realise and anlyse where u stand with God and how far ur are going to Go WITH IT. as stated by u ultimately u doint wanna leave the faith but u do wanna marry this person. assuming this and also that u are going stay perfectly as possible  and oblige in ur orthodox church
    u have a few facts to deal wit one
    ur girl is not orthodox even more not denominational at all.?
    one conculsion is u cannot be a called a christain by saying u r 'non denominational'
    i would say this puts u r gf  as a person wit the others similar to her as people who believe in the story of the bible and follow its moral as best THEY understand it and thats it

    that is not being religious.

    as a 'non denominational' she obviousily doesnt believe in any of the sacrements and perhaps not even in the life to come.

    this proves some points
    she takes her spiritual life very lightly
    her priorites in life are not religious at all

    my advice to u
    the basics of orthodoxy is believing in the sacrements. u can be both part of the church if u agree and belive in the sacrements.
    first observe the definition of love ur self go reserch than disscuss wit her.
    make a decsion where u stand u faith in church and the churches firm foundation  in the sacrements and where u stand in it.
    affirm ur stand on the truth and disscuss dis wit her
    outline her compromises(below)
    outline ur compromises(below)

    judge upon level of sucess based on result act and make a decsion may take a while at least a yr
    stick wit the decisoin

    ur compromises
    u will pray and fast for her to learn the truth.
    u will bk off add no pressure
    u will compromise if she wants to back off from church and only keep to the sacremental activites of the orothdox church then u will come up wit a compromise for that through ur confession father.

    her compromises
    choses to seek truth and validity of orthdoxy and its sacrements
    over time she will see for her self the truth about orthodoxy and where it comes from the reality of christainity and the very importance of the sacrements
    u will not push her in to learing orthodoxy
    if she makes the effort God will through her effort and prayer and fasting reveal to her the truth if she honestly seeks for an answer about orthodoxy and it validity and sacrements.
    she will allow the kids to grow in faith untill they can make thier own decision at 16/18 yrs

    as a 'christain' i believe a person who doesnt wanna learn the truth about christainity and atleast doesnt put in any effort in learning or validating the truth is a person who doesnt love God wit all her heart but in some thing else [perhaps the moral or only inthe the virtues etc] as such how can she love u its flawed already for u as a christain.

    these are some real solutions u can act on but honestly if u r serious about ur faith and ur love for her and her love for u she will find the truth and u will both grow but if either is at faulty then its gona be  :'(



  • Unknown
    [quote author=Meena_Ameen link=topic=5658.msg75448#msg75448 date=1186978388]
    Guys, I have a seriouse problem... You see, I really love this girl I am with right now, and i can honestly say i have never loved anyone as much as i have loved her, we never get in fights, and i have never felt more loved by anyone else. The only problem is, she is not orthodox, she is christian but not orthodox, shes not a protestant or a catholic, she is "non denominational", I am really scared because I know this is the girl i want to spend the rest of my life with and i know she feels the same way. But we are both very very afriad because were not sure that the orthodox church will allow us to get married. PLease help, wut do i do???


    Hi Meena,
    Why not introduce her to Orthodoxy?? Tell her about your Church, and our Sacraments etc, and the history of our Church?
  • Unknown
    good advice QT. And to add, prayer, fasting, regular talks with your confession father and commitment to the Lord and His bride, the Church, in which you are a member- and remember however small you perceive yourself to be, St. Paul doesn't trivialize your role but considers it on par with himself. Hence, we are compelled to take this responsibility in all earnestness- not just you mate, all of us- and I am so sorry that I hypocritically preach this to you, knowing full well that this is the truth but as yet have stubbornly ignored it as such.
  • Unknown
    Guys,

    You know what? We are the true bride of Christ: The Coptic Orthodox Church. Where have we faltered in our faith, our doctrine, our traditions? Where have we compromised??

    Yet, is it someone's fault if they are born Catholic, Protestant, Jehovah's etc?? Not at all.

    The answer is to preach your faith to them. Marrying someone who is already Coptic is wise. Marrying someone who didnt know about your Church, and loved it because you evangelised it to them is even better!!!
  • Meena_AmeenMeena_Ameen
    Karas7, that was an amazing post, it was exactly what i was hoping to get thank you soooo sooo much... You see, the thing is, this girl who i love does love Christ, and she does infact believe in the afterlife, she believes in everything in the bible, but ofcourse, she grew up in a non dinomination christian family and has no understanding of the importants of the sacrements. I tried speaking to her about this once but i was afraid that i might come out to strong and sound like i was trying to force her to convert... And she doesn infact take communion, however does not believe that the actual conversion of the bread and wine takes place but is just a symbol. Or they are just re-acting what christ did at the last supper... as he said "do this in rememberance of me". So it is hard to convince someone that this bread and wine actually converts to the REAL body and blood of our Lord.

    I tried telling her this once and she said how would it really convert, I can understand why she would say this, because the fact the a Priest can make the bread and win convert to the REAL BODY AND BLOOD of JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF does sound kinda strange, especially to a person who is not orthodox, do you know what i mean? I think even the catholics are not 100% sure that the conversion takes place...

    The reason why she wouldnt want to convert to orthodox is because she;s been non dinominational all her life and knows nothing about the importants of sacrements.

    I would never leave my faith for anyone or anything... I know orthodox is the true faith, I just hope she will know one day too... I just dont know where to start when i try speaking with her about this.
  • HolmesHolmes
    [coptic]+ Iryny nem `hmot>[/coptic]

    Forgive me for nit-picking, but this is important.  The priest does not make the bread and wine become the Body and Blood of Christ.  That is the work of the Holy Spirit.  It is through the prayers of the priest that the Spirit comes down and converts the bread and wine to the Body and Blood.
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=Meena_Ameen link=topic=5658.msg75474#msg75474 date=1187027644]
    I tried telling her this once and she said how would it really convert, I can understand why she would say this, because the fact the a Priest can make the bread and win convert to the REAL BODY AND BLOOD of JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF does sound kinda strange, especially to a person who is not orthodox, do you know what i mean? I think even the catholics are not 100% sure that the conversion takes place...

    actually i just heard somthing from HGB Rafel. He said that Christ said, "This is My Body and Blood". how can someone deny that Christ can't turn wine into blood and bread into wine. if u really belive in Him, u must know that He can Do everything.

  • Unknown
    Meena_Ameen:

    Pray a lot and implore Our Lord Jesus Christ that He may guide both of you.

    Ask her if she knows what the Church actually means by "Holy Sacraments", then explain to her if needed (be prepared). Ask her if she was baptized, was it by full dipping or not and whether it was done by a consecrated priest? Was she anointed with the Holy Myroon? Do not push her to do anything just ask and let God guide you both.

    If you do not want or cannot hold this kind of discussions, at least you have all the rights to know these very important facts about her. There is no disrespect in asking these questions if you pick the right time.

    You should avoid being careless about your spiritual life and the eyes of your mind should try to "look" into the future. Think of all the possibilities and implications as a family.

    GBU
  • Meena_AmeenMeena_Ameen
    thank you John_S2000 I will difinetly take your advice, and I know asking her these questions will not make her feel uncomfortable because she knows Im only trying to help her...She is very understanding, i just dont want to come across as pushy. But I will take it step by step and Hopfully the Lord will take each step with me
  • karas7karas7
    i am glad i was of help
    listen oddly enough i know sonner or later i will find my self in a similar position sadly enough i doint beleive our church has enough support or mechanisms in place to help such members in such positions.

    firstly i say u need to run through the the history of the church then the importance of the sacrements and all important acpects of our church. u see becuase u r in a position to  PREACH it is impotant that u know and understand the whole view of the church. becuase only then u can explain to an outsider the truth and reflect how strong ur own faith is. it is not enough to be just a deacon at church but understanding more than that to help ur close one.

    also whatever u do slowly palnt the seed water it now an then do not flood the girl wit too much info and stuff a seed will die if it is drowning wit too much watering  so be gentle not presurring pray a short prayer BEFORE putting a view point and so forth.

    as for the matter of communion for me alone this miracle by one of our desert father related to us by abba daniel is enough to remove all doubt and believeing reverence.
    i hope after all that that if the seed flourishes into a plant it will have such a foundation that it will autmoantically accept mysteries of church feeling the presence of God in the mystery rather than just becuase of a theoloigcal stand or of history that is the most importatn part.

    This is what Abba Daniel, the Pharanite, said, 'Our
    Father Abba Arsenius told us of an inhabitant of Scetis, of
    notable life and of simple faith; through his naivete' he was
    deceived and said, "The bread which we receive is not really
    the body of Christ, but a symbol." Two old men having
    learnt that he had uttered this saying, knowing that he was
    outstanding in his way of life, knew that he had not spoken
    through malice, but through simplicity. So they came to find
    him and said, "Father, we have heard a proposition contrary
    to the faith on the part of someone who says that the bread
    which we receive is not really the body of Christ, but a
    symbol." The old man said, "It is I who have said that." Then
    the old men exhorted him saying, "Do not hold this position,
    Father, but hold one in conformity with that which the
    catholic Church has given us. We believe, for our part, that
    the bread itself is the body of Christ and that the cup itself is
    his blood and this in all truth and not a symbol. But as in the
    beginning, God formed man in his image, taking the dust of
    the earth, without anyone being able to say that it is not the
    image of God, even though it is not seen to be so; thus it is
    with the bread of which he said that it is his body; and so we
    believe that it is really the body of Christ." The old man said
    to them, "As long as I have not been persuaded by the thing
    itself, I shall not be fully convinced." So they said, "Let us
    pray God about this mystery throughout the whole of this
    week and we believe that God will reveal it to us." The old
    man received this saying with joy and he prayed in these
    words, "Lord, you know that it is not through malice that I
    do not believe and so that I may not err through ignorance,
    reveal this mystery to me, Lord Jesus Christ." The old men
    returned to their cells and they also prayed God, saying,
    "Lord Jesus Christ, reveal this mystery to the old man, that
    he may believe and not lose his reward." God heard both the
    prayers. At the end of the week they came to church on
    23
    Sunday and sat all three on the same mat, the old man in the
    middle. Then their eyes were opened and when the bread
    was placed on the holy table, there appeared as it were a
    little child to these three alone. And when the priest put out
    his hand to break the bread, behold an angel descended from
    heaven with a sword and poured the child's blood into the
    chalice. When the priest cut the bread into small pieces, the
    angel also cut the child in pieces. When they drew near to
    receive the sacred elements the old man alone received a
    morsel of bloody flesh. Seeing this he was afraid and cried
    out, "Lord, I believe that this bread is your flesh and this
    chalice your blood." Immediately the flesh, which he held in
    his hand, became bread, according to the mystery and he
    took it, giving thanks to God. Then the old men said to him,
    "God knows human nature and that man cannot eat raw flesh
    and that is why he has changed his body into bread and his
    blood into wine, for those who receive it in faith." Then they
    gave thanks to God for the old man, because he had allowed
    him not to lose the reward of his labour. So all three
    returned with joy to their own cells.'


    God be with u in ur course.
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