Dear Cephas and all, No, not at all. There is nothing you should apologise about. I didn't take any offences, and I said many times before I didn't have a strong argument myself. I actually don't know of any books for rites of our church, but I will take minagir's advice and try to look for "Discoly" if that is the right spelling, and understand more about the church dogmas. I don't agree with kmeka001, as it is mentioned congregation sings the hymn, not deacons, but actually there is a good point, that I would like to stress out here (not my point actually, kmeka001's and some friends of mine when I discussed out of the forum): I think only shnoda can answer this: why did that priest not take deacons along with the group of women, or if the deacons were too busy, why didn't he take some men along? Was it that he taught the hymn during one of the women's meetings that he holds?!! Very hard for me to understand. Again, I am not by any means trying to judge abona or his actions. It is just that I be aware of the whole situation. God bless you all and mention me in your prayers
hi ophadece, to answer ur question, our abouna gives hymns classes for us (deacons) and a group of girls.during the great lent this year he thought of teaching both of us long evlogimenos.we prefered to learn long kiryelecon of the lent.so he taught the girls long evlogimenos while we learned long kiryelecon.So ,when palm sunday came,it was only the girls who knew the hymn.
Dear shnoda, Thanks for answering my question. Just to point out that it is nice to know how these things are organised in each church, as I myself learn hymns through CD's and downloads, and not in the church. God bless you all and mention me in your prayers
In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, One God, Amen. I think that unless a Papal rule comes out against girls leading in hymns or songs or even Deaconesses as in California, it is quite all right. JESUS said for all to praise and worship him, whether it is in leading a Church or in personal worship, I believe that it doesn't matter.
May the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all.
Dear abosefien, I am sorry, I disagree. I don't really think we should bother the Pope with such matters, and if anything goes against the church rites, we don't then need to ask the Pope about it. I don't really think the idea of deaconesses is acceptable anyway. God bless you, and pray for me a lot
[quote author=ophadece link=topic=5226.msg70471#msg70471 date=1177876640] I am sorry, I disagree. I don't really think we should bother the Pope with such matters, and if anything goes against the church rites, we don't then need to ask the Pope about it.
well yes i did't like the word Papal rule becaue it's not his alone with all do respect. it's the holy synod rule, and he is the head of the synod.
I don't really think the idea of deaconesses is acceptable anyway.
i tihnk we spoke aobut this beofre. HH himself was one of the popes who ordaining more deaconesss than others. it's a rank in our church, it been that way for many 100s of years, i don't care if it's accepted or not; it's right and there is nothing that makes it wrong.
Dear minagir, From what I understand, and what we discussed before (if you mean we discussed it here on this website), deaconesses were not allowed to stand along with deacons and serve as cantors in the church. They just served other women and girls arranging the way the prayers were organised in the church, and they followed certain criteria, being widows, and old enough (don't think the Bible mentioned an age). What I was referring to in my reply to abosefein was the fact that I don't think it is acceptable for women or girls to stand between deacons, and chant out loud. I think they have their allocated places. Again, I am not being a sexist, or looking down on the sex that God has regarded highly, and the great example of course, goes without saying, is Virgin Mary. Let me also, minagir, use this chance to ask you to be careful about the words you choose, as I honestly (and not for the first time) felt you were quarrelling, rather than advising, or just answering. That by no means means that I got offended, but I just thought of mentioning this to you, and I hope you don't get offended. I am so sorry if I said something which I shouldn't have done. God bless you and mention me in your prayers
[quote author=ophadece link=topic=5226.msg70500#msg70500 date=1177939057] Dear minagir, From what I understand, and what we discussed before (if you mean we discussed it here on this website), deaconesses were not allowed to stand along with deacons and serve as cantors in the church. They just served other women and girls arranging the way the prayers were organised in the church, and they followed certain criteria, being widows, and old enough (don't think the Bible mentioned an age). What I was referring to in my reply to abosefein was the fact that I don't think it is acceptable for women or girls to stand between deacons, and chant out loud. I think they have their allocated places. Again, I am not being a sexist, or looking down on the sex that God has regarded highly, and the great example of course, goes without saying, is Virgin Mary. Let me also, minagir, use this chance to ask you to be careful about the words you choose, as I honestly (and not for the first time) felt you were quarrelling, rather than advising, or just answering. That by no means means that I got offended, but I just thought of mentioning this to you, and I hope you don't get offended. I am so sorry if I said something which I shouldn't have done. God bless you and mention me in your prayers
well it's great to hear you didn't get offended and all i was doing is answering what you have said. you said deaconesses and that's what i answred to.
Comments
No, not at all. There is nothing you should apologise about. I didn't take any offences, and I said many times before I didn't have a strong argument myself. I actually don't know of any books for rites of our church, but I will take minagir's advice and try to look for "Discoly" if that is the right spelling, and understand more about the church dogmas.
I don't agree with kmeka001, as it is mentioned congregation sings the hymn, not deacons, but actually there is a good point, that I would like to stress out here (not my point actually, kmeka001's and some friends of mine when I discussed out of the forum):
I think only shnoda can answer this: why did that priest not take deacons along with the group of women, or if the deacons were too busy, why didn't he take some men along? Was it that he taught the hymn during one of the women's meetings that he holds?!! Very hard for me to understand.
Again, I am not by any means trying to judge abona or his actions. It is just that I be aware of the whole situation.
God bless you all and mention me in your prayers
to answer ur question,
our abouna gives hymns classes for us (deacons) and a group of girls.during the great lent this year he thought of teaching both of us long evlogimenos.we prefered to learn long kiryelecon of the lent.so he taught the girls long evlogimenos while we learned long kiryelecon.So ,when palm sunday came,it was only the girls who knew the hymn.
Thanks for answering my question. Just to point out that it is nice to know how these things are organised in each church, as I myself learn hymns through CD's and downloads, and not in the church.
God bless you all and mention me in your prayers
I think that unless a Papal rule comes out against girls leading in hymns or songs or even Deaconesses as in California, it is quite all right. JESUS said for all to praise and worship him, whether it is in leading a Church or in personal worship, I believe that it doesn't matter.
May the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all.
God Bless All and please pray for me.
I am sorry, I disagree. I don't really think we should bother the Pope with such matters, and if anything goes against the church rites, we don't then need to ask the Pope about it. I don't really think the idea of deaconesses is acceptable anyway.
God bless you, and pray for me a lot
I am sorry, I disagree. I don't really think we should bother the Pope with such matters, and if anything goes against the church rites, we don't then need to ask the Pope about it.
well yes i did't like the word Papal rule becaue it's not his alone with all do respect. it's the holy synod rule, and he is the head of the synod. i tihnk we spoke aobut this beofre. HH himself was one of the popes who ordaining more deaconesss than others. it's a rank in our church, it been that way for many 100s of years, i don't care if it's accepted or not; it's right and there is nothing that makes it wrong.
From what I understand, and what we discussed before (if you mean we discussed it here on this website), deaconesses were not allowed to stand along with deacons and serve as cantors in the church. They just served other women and girls arranging the way the prayers were organised in the church, and they followed certain criteria, being widows, and old enough (don't think the Bible mentioned an age). What I was referring to in my reply to abosefein was the fact that I don't think it is acceptable for women or girls to stand between deacons, and chant out loud. I think they have their allocated places. Again, I am not being a sexist, or looking down on the sex that God has regarded highly, and the great example of course, goes without saying, is Virgin Mary.
Let me also, minagir, use this chance to ask you to be careful about the words you choose, as I honestly (and not for the first time) felt you were quarrelling, rather than advising, or just answering. That by no means means that I got offended, but I just thought of mentioning this to you, and I hope you don't get offended. I am so sorry if I said something which I shouldn't have done.
God bless you and mention me in your prayers
Dear minagir,
From what I understand, and what we discussed before (if you mean we discussed it here on this website), deaconesses were not allowed to stand along with deacons and serve as cantors in the church. They just served other women and girls arranging the way the prayers were organised in the church, and they followed certain criteria, being widows, and old enough (don't think the Bible mentioned an age). What I was referring to in my reply to abosefein was the fact that I don't think it is acceptable for women or girls to stand between deacons, and chant out loud. I think they have their allocated places. Again, I am not being a sexist, or looking down on the sex that God has regarded highly, and the great example of course, goes without saying, is Virgin Mary.
Let me also, minagir, use this chance to ask you to be careful about the words you choose, as I honestly (and not for the first time) felt you were quarrelling, rather than advising, or just answering. That by no means means that I got offended, but I just thought of mentioning this to you, and I hope you don't get offended. I am so sorry if I said something which I shouldn't have done.
God bless you and mention me in your prayers
well it's great to hear you didn't get offended and all i was doing is answering what you have said. you said deaconesses and that's what i answred to.