Who is the author of the theotokia?

Agape

Can anyone tell me who originally wrote the theotokia of the week days and when and where? I tried to find its history in the web but in vain. I would appreciate if you can refer me to any links on this subject. Thank you.

minatasgeel

most of the theotokeias were by Pope Cyril the Fifth (the piller of faith).

Agape

Do you have a reference for this?

minatasgeel

well, abouna Mettias of HICS have include that once in a sermon about the midnight praises. i think you might be able to find the sermon on ch.net

Agape

There are also traditions that give the authorship to St. Ephreim of Syria. Some one else may also come with another name. Which one could we take as correct? You see, Theotokia is a hymn used in almost all eastern orthodox churches. Greeks use it. The Russians use it. Ethiopians use it. When we surely know the authorities of the liturgy I dont see why there should be lack of documented proof for the theotokiat.

Unknown

[quote author=Agape link=board=2;threadid=4092;start=0#msg57247 date=1152002715]
There are also traditions that give the authorship to St. Ephreim of Syria. Some one else may also come with another name. Which one could we take as correct? You see, Theotokia is a hymn used in almost all eastern orthodox churches. Greeks use it. The Russians use it. Ethiopians use it. When we surely know the authorities of the liturgy I dont see why there should be lack of documented proof for the theotokiat.


In the Greek, Russian, etc churches I believe many of the hymns were composed by a Syrian Saint called Romanos the Melodist (not sure about Theotokia though). He was born in the 5th century, not sure if he is canonised by the Coptic Church.

Agape

So what about the theotokiat? Any theologian out there... where is your scholarship?

Agape

This is the response I got from Seeker of Truth (SOT).
Thanks SOT. But I still am looking for references and/or links from the web. Otherwise it will remain an oral knowledge or something.
Dear Agape,
It's nice to talk to you again, I hope you are doing well! I would just like to clarify what you have said here. Our friend MinaGir did not hesitate to say to you "It WAS written by Saint Cyril the Pillar of Faith". Do you know why it was him who wrote it? They were written during the time of the Council of Epheses. I hope you know what it was about and this will explain why Saint Cyril would write the Theotokia's. He had to defend Saint Mary and in doing so, he wrote the Theotokia's. It is possible Saint Ephrem wrote Syria wrote some but we know for a fact Saint Cyril wrote most, if not all of the Theotokia's. What caused me to say something was when you said, "When we surely know the authorities of the liturgy I dont see why there should be lack of documented proof for the theotokiat." NO ONE said there is a lack of proof for you to say this and like I said, our friend did not hesitate to say who it was to you. Please realize you must watch what you say because you made it seem as if MinaGir said nothing useful to you when he clearly told you what is our Church Tradition and what is well known. I hope this clears things up. Have a great day and keep me in your prayers..

minatasgeel

the sourse is here
http://www.coptichymns.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sermons&file=index&q=f&f=%2FArabic%2F__Sermons%2FHegomen_Mettias_Nasr_Mankorious%2FThe_History_of_the_Midnight_Praise

go to around 21:00 in the first file of the sermon.

i wasn't fully right. the origin of the theotokeiat is in fact pope Cyril X but he didn't put them in the shape we have now. it was ordered by a mons named "Fakhori" who was staying in the monestary of St. Makarii. and at first they were used by only monestaries and were not ther for the rest of the churchs. but than Pope Beniameen ordered all the churchs in Egypt to use them in their order. and from there churchs in fact took these coptic parts called theotokeias, and put the in to liturgical events including our coptic liturgy, weddings, and a lot others.

sorry for the uncertainty but now i am right in what i just said.

Agape

Thank you very much Mina. Eventhough I don't speak arabic I will take it as a source to be translated and quoted. You have provided me with the coptic version of its history. I will continue my comparative study and try to see the syriac and ethiopic versions as well. I encourage you to do the same. Once again thank you for your kindness. God bless you.