I am not a Coptic

edited December 1969 in Faith Issues
I am not a Coptic. I hope that I am not hated.


  • Hey man, how's it going,

    NC is my friend guys, we're the Christian party in islam.com

    Hope u post in more topics man

    By the way, we don't hate nobody

  • As defender said we hate nobody and we are always up to new members who want to know more about copts and coptic churches.
  • Hi guys!

    Defender invited me here and like he said, I'm a Christian, specifically a Catholic. I remember one of his first posts on Islam.com was what he called the "Nicea" Creed, which was almost a verbatim replica of our Nicene Creed. I also heard that in some Coptic traditions, adherents do the sign of the cross when they pray. I found that fascinating because what Catholics do as well.

    So from a doctrinal standpoint, what's the difference between Coptics and Catholics?
  • wat ur not coptic, oh i hate sooooooo much man!!
    wats wrong wit u???

    nah im just playin, i got nothin against u, were all about love dude, i know every1 says that but we mean it.

    oi mate do u believe in purgatory, or indulgences...
    hope its kool for me to ask, cause
    i luv u man!
    oh by the way
    im George
  • Hi george, I hate you too! No, not really.

    Purgatory is discussed among Catholics. Do Coptics not discuss it? I don't know "indulgences". Please explain, bro.

    I am glad that this place loves more. At Islam.com, too many people hate.
  • Hey NC,

    Well, This is how it is, these are the diffrences between the Catholic and Coptic Churches:

    1.The Concept of Purgatory
    2.the belief that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son, 3.
    the primacy of St. Peter
    4.The infallibility of the Pope of Rome
    5.The immaculate conception of St. Mary
    6.The sins can be forgiven through indulgences (selling the forgivness of sins)
    7.The acceptance of non-Christians in marriage

    Hope that helps NC, but anyways, I think our Churches are very similar when it comes to non-theological parts, also, we are both attacked falsely by the protestant church.

  • i think the Catholic Church stopped selling indulgences a looong time ago...
  • Hey! I'm Mena. I'm kind new here too. By the way, i just looked it up in my S.S. textbook and it does say that the selling of indulgences was abolished during the Protestant Reformation. So I would think that it was stopped.

    Hope that helps.

  • whoops! that was my sis's sn. lol this is me ;D
  • i am srry to sound stupid here but what do you mean by indulgences?
  • i believe thats where u pay the pastor to ask God for the forgiveness of ur sins... :-\
  • Ok, wfhanna1, indulgences are: certificates from the Pope that excused a person from doing a penance and shortened the required stay in purgatory before going to Heaven!

    hope that helped,

  • ooooh ok now i think i know what you are talking about
  • Well glad I helped ;D, anyways,

    where are ya man?? >:(
    By the way, where is NorthernCross??

  • there were actually different kinds of indulgences...for all of them you paid a priest or bishop or whoever for forgiveness of sins rather than doin a penance...there were different ranks depending on how much you paid...1. you can pay for the sins that you committed; 2. you can pay for the sins of some1 in purgatory already; & 3. if you pay a realllly large amount of money, not only are your past sins forgiven, but all the ones you will commit in the future...i think there may b one other kind but i cant remember it rite now...
  • People in the middle ages tried really hard to earn their salvation and unfortuantely :( the Catholic Church responded by misleading the people with the indulgences concept. Many brought indulgences. Penance was the sacrement of punishements in this ife which repentant sinners had to undergo to show that they were truly sorry for their sins. Purgatory, on the other hand, was the place where repentant sinners had to stay after death until they have been properly punished for their sin and could enter Heaven. The sale of indulgences was one of the many ways the misleaded Clergye enriched themselves, Also, with this money they erected many lavish Church buildings that are still standing till today.

  • [glow=red,2,300]Christos Alepsis!!!! Christ is Ascended!!![/glow]

    Welcome Northern Cross!!! This is an awesome web community....very friendly brothers and sisters. I am not Coptic either...I am Eastern Orthodox and a former Roman Catholic so I try to share accurate info about catholicism.

    Roman Catholic theology uses legalistic terms and philosophical explanations in describing her doctrines. Indulgences are not sold any longer since the Protestant Derformation. I will post the official explanation of indulgences straight from the updated Roman Catholic Catechism:What is an indulgence?

    "An indulgence is a remission before God of the temporal punishment due to sins whose guilt has already been forgiven, which the faithful Christian who is duly disposed gains under certain prescribed conditions through the action of the Church which, as the minister of redemption, dispenses and applies with authority the treasury of the satisfactions of Christ and the saints."

    God's divine justice must be satisfied for sins already confessed in the Holy Sacrament of Penance (Confession). This includes unconfessed sins as well. You will proceed to be in a state of purgatory until God's justice is satisfied.

    Indulgences can be described as partial (it removes part of the temporal punishment due to sin) or as plenary (removes ALL of the temporal punishment due to sin):

    "An indulgence is partial or plenary according as it removes either part or all of the temporal punishment due to sin." The faithful can gain indulgences for themselves or apply them to the dead." You can find this in teaching number 1471 of the Roman catholic Catechism online: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1471.htm

    Hope this helped . God bless you and again welcome!

  • Thanks for the welcome, everyone! Especially Defender who brought me here. I'm happy to see that people here are so friendly, but I suppose I should not be surprised because we Christians must behave with love as Jesus commanded. :)


    If you do not believe that the Holy Spirit preceeds from the Father and the Son, then what is the Coptic position on the Holy Spirit? Also, I remember what indulgences are now. What the others say is right in that my Church hasn't done that in centuries.


    If I may ask, why did you leave Catholicism for Orthodoxy? I'm curious because as far as I know, both Churches are very similar in terms of doctrine as well as in the structures of their respective institutions.

    Everyone else:

    May the peace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you always! :)
  • The Coptic position on the procession of the Spirit is that The Spirit only proceeds from the Father... think of it this way... The Father is considered the actual spring of the spring... The Son is the water and the Holy Spirit is the essence of the spring... if the Holy Spirit proceeded from the Father AND Son, then you would in turn have two sources.. which just isn't possible..

    quick verse... "But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me. " John 15:26
  • Hey Northern Cross,

    I'm glad your enjoying this forum. I think your question to me has already been answered by Marys, Marys knows her Bible well.... :)

    Thanks Marys. If you have any other questions please post them. Both Churches are very similar but what are your thoughts about the Protestant church? I personally disagree with some of their beliefs especially that they do not believe in Intercession and they do not believe in the Seven Holy Sacrements.

  • [glow=red,2,300]Christ is Ascended!!![/glow]

    I will be happy to respond Northern Cross! The main reason I became Orthodox is becuase of the beauty of the Way, the Truth and the Life (John 14:6). In other words : [glow=red,2,300]Jesus Christ! [/glow] I became Orthodox because i was such a devout Roman catholic! The more i studied her history (Rc Church's) the more it pointed East....the more I felt the pain of schism. I love Orhtodoxy's love of the Holy Fathers, Holy Tradition and profound teaching on Theosis and the Orthodox understanding of salvation ( Original sin, redemption, struggle in attaining God's Likeness).

    In my experience, Roman catholicsim is very fractured in the sense of battles between the Hiearchy.laity as well as her sickness of Modernism... which by the way, several Rc popes condemned as a heresy. There isnt a "catholic culture" anymore like our grandparents and before them had: Sacramental devotions like Stations of the Cross used to be a big event in churches or Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament (its Jesus In the Flesh!) and people's loyalty to Holy Tradition. This is only a genralization, there are of course exeptions.

    Catholicsim, i feel, did have a positive influence on me i the snes that it developed in me a great love for Mary the Holy Theotokos, the Saints. It gave me a great devotion to the Holy Mysteries (Sacraments) and an Apostolic identity as a member of an ancient Church. Thus she prepared me to become enter in the fulness of what i felt catholicism once had but lost. I am the only Puerto Rican Orthodox in my family...the rest are still Roman catholics. We can still speak the same language of tradition and appreciate each other's gifts. But i am so mmuch at peace here in the arms and bosom of Holy
    Orthodoxy! Hope I explained clearly enuff 4 u NC.... ;D... and please forgive me if in any way i have offended you when this share is meant to be taken with peace and Christan intentions.

    By the way Defender, there isnt such a thing as a "Protestant Church" in the same sense that there is an Orhtodox Church ( as a unified Body). Protestants are a group of fragmented churches who believe in the Bible alone as their only authority and claim to be led the Holy Spirit when in fact they contridict each other in several important doctrines even within one denomination ( Pentecostals for instance are divided between Trinitarian and non- Trinitarian groups). Plus many of the heretical groups like the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses came from the Protestants.

    Any way God bless You and please pray for this big Lug (me ;D) this is why i call myself a gamuz (water buffalo in Arabic...lol) .

    Dios Te Bendiga!
  • Hey Guys,

    First of all that was an awesome story Boricou, I hope Northern Cross was not offended by any means. We are all one in Christ. And may the Peace and Love of our Lord protect us always from all evils.

    When I said protestant church, I meant all non-Catholic and non-Orthodox, like the lutheran, mormons, Jehova's witnesses, as they all result in contradicting others like you said. I stand firm against that justification is by faith only and not by deeds, and no matter what of persecution I get from them, God willing, I will have enough Power from Christ to overcome all their persecutions, if you didn't know NC, I have faced a lot of theological battles with protestants before.

    From my opinion, the reason Christianity is a hundred denomination right now is because of that reformation and because of Martin Luther King who declared with his own tongue that he hated the Almighty.

    Martin Luther King is just a replica of mohammed, in fact, he is even weaker and not as smart.

    What are your opinions on the protestant church, Northern Cross?

  • [glow=red,2,300]Christ is Ascended!!! [/glow]

    Thank you defender and all glory to Our ever loving Rabena (Lord God in Arabic ) !
    Outside the Orthodox Church there is great fragmentation but within Holy Orthodoxy the only separation is between our mutual Orthodox families ( :'(). But you are confusing the Luthers... Martian Luther was the Deformer and Martin Luther King was the African American Civil rights activist.

    God bless my Ahooyah!!!
  • Hey Boricou,

    Yeah your right, I did mix them up. :-[

    It is very sad that we are not in communion with our sister Orthodox Churches (excluding the five Churches we have communion with right now). I think we can get over these diffrences and His Holiness Pope Shenoda III is spending great effort with his sons in service to unite Churches. I also appreciate what His Holiness Pope John Paul VI (I hope I got it right, because I am not concentrating right now) with His Holiness Pope Shenoda III are trying to do to unite both Orthodox and Catholic Churches. But in order for us to unite we must agree with each other, that's what we are working on right now. (when I say we I mean Orthodox and Catholic Church).

  • Hey yall, i always read ppl's comments but i never respond, but this time i had too. As i read most of the feedbacks i realized how blessed we are to be christians and moreover how we as copts accept others that are not copts yet are christians. Just makes me happy to see that each one of us is living the commandment which Jesus himself told us to live by..... Love ur neighbor as you self. God bless all those who glorify his name. Stay firm in the faith!
  • Marsilino:

    I agree with you 100%. On Islam.com, there has been a battle on one of its forums between different sects of Islam. They call each other heretics, lay curses and profess hatred for each other. While there are a number of Christians who would call our Churches heretical, at least they would never tell us that they hate us. It's the Commandment of love that most distinguishes us from Muslims. And while this Commandment to loving others, even our enemies, makes our religion more difficult than any Islamic law, it has been proven time and again to be an outstanding way to live.

    Defender and Boricua_Orthodox:

    I'm not offended at all by your comments. For me, whatever doctrinal differences we have are not too important to me. You both agree with the Commandments of love from our Lord and Savior, and I think that's great. BTW, Mel Gibson, who himself is a devout Catholic, would agree that the Church has changed to too much since Vatican II.

    May the peace of our Lord be with you always!
  • Hey Northern Cross,

    You are definietly right, we are all one to our Saviour. On Islam.com, I saw the most horrible battles between a muslim and his brother, islam is based on violence but we have to consider that it is here for a reason. One of my very early ancestors commented about islam saying: God sent thme to us, so that whenever we hear the Azan (Sounding of prayer) we know that it is time for us to pray, too. So when we are carrying the Good News to them we always come with a smile on our faces and offer them our service and that's what makes them wonder, they wonder how we have this peace in us and how we bring them peace not yell at them for believing in something wrong.

    In the old times in Egypt, when muslims would see a man with a smile on his face and very peaceful features, they would say : this is a Christian and we would reflect our Peace on them.

    I pray for the unity of the Churches, especially with our Orthodox Sisters and the Catholic Church.

    God Bless you with His everlasting Peace and Plz pray for me.

  • [quote author=Defender! link=board=1;threadid=293;start=15#msg2664 date=1085718189]

    When I said protestant church, I meant all non-Catholic and non-Orthodox, like the lutheran, mormons, Jehova's witnesses, as they all result in contradicting others like you said. I stand firm against that justification is by faith only and not by deeds, and no matter what of persecution I get from them, God willing, I will have enough Power from Christ to overcome all their persecutions, if you didn't know NC, I have faced a lot of theological battles with protestants before.

    From my opinion, the reason Christianity is a hundred denomination right now is because of that reformation and because of Martin Luther King who declared with his own tongue that he hated the Almighty.

    Martin Luther King is just a replica of mohammed, in fact, he is even weaker and not as smart.

    What are your opinions on the protestant church, Northern Cross?


    Wel defender I disagree with you, because according to history Martin Luthor (the catholic monk) saw that the church was encouraging endulgance and other unacceptable practices which raised money for the church's benefit, not the poor's.Having said that i disagree with him leaving his original church, because that is just an invitation to the devil to lead him astray.

    Another thig, MORMANS are NOT cChristian, they don't believe in anything got to do with juese, these guys make Jehova's witnesses look like ernest christians which they are not. They merly mension Christ to attract Christians to their religon, but they are as good as PAGON.

    and Boricua_Orthodox, I deeply appreciate your Love for the orthodox church, it is sometimes hard for people born into the orthodox faith(including me) to appreciate that. Because I got to a catholic school I can understand what you are on about. I think the problem with catholicism that they do not value/keep tradtion. tradition is what keeps the orthodox church alive. As much as Vadicant II helped in bringing people to accept the faith it, essencially lost all that makes it unique, SoutherCross, I really hope that you do not get offended from my comment.

  • Hey Peet, ;D

    His name is actually northern Cross, and I know that martin luther was a monk, but he tried correcting a mistake by making another one...

  • [glow=red,2,300]Happy Pentecost!!!!!!!![/glow]

    Praise Rabena ahooyah!!! Your are very welcome peet and i must say that Martin Luther meant well but he threw out the baby with the bath water! He follwed his conscious but caused more fragmentation in Christianity. Many of the stuff in his 95 thesis the Roman Catholic in Vat2 approved. On his death bed he regretted what he did becuase here he was complaining against the Pope and his ow theories (like Bible alone) made every individual their own pope!

    In Orthodoxy the questions were different. It was really about the deifintion of the Hypostatic union Of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. How to define His Divinity and Humanity but everything else we all hold in common.

    Its a nice sentiment to say we all are one in Christ ( i pray for unity everyday) however the only "oneness" we Orthodox share with other Christians is calling Christ our Lord! I mean this sadly... :-X... if we all are one then we all would share the same Table....the same Holy Eucharist...but we dont! We sympathize woth other Christians and we cannot say where God isn't ( ex: not in the Lutheran Church,pentecostal, baptist ..so on) but we can say where God IS! He is in the Church He founded (Mat.16:18). The Hly Eucharist unites all Orthodox into one Body:The Body Of Christ. This is same thing that the Roman catholic church teaches.

    So, I wirte these words not for argument's sake nor to create ill feelings ( remember i am former Rc and my family all are as well) but to "Keep it real" as we say it here in NYC. Lets pray for unity but unity in everything not just sweet feelings.

    Dios los bendiga!!!!
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