Catholic - Orthodox Church Move Towards Unity

edited December 1969 in Coptic Orthodox Church

I'm sorry if I posted this elsewhere. I felt a new thread ought to be more appropriate.

There has been some dialogue recently between the COC and the RC concerning Unity. I think some joint statements had been established between both Churches:

Here's a news clipping:

Does anyone know what the outcomes of this dialog was?
Where do we stand with the RC?
What are the next steps towards further integration with them, or them with us?
What agreements have been made so far?

I read H.G Bishop Angaelos's statement. I agree entirely with what he has said. It is indeed very hypocritical that we can talk about love and forgiveness, but the Church cannot seem to apply this towards other denominations.

Many times I've seen Catholics look at Copts as heretics - SIMPLY because we are not under Rome.
Many times I've seen Orthodox clergy look down at Catholics - SIMPLY because of their deviation from theological realities that only a theologian would be able to understand.
This animosity has gone far enough.

In all honesty, I hope the COC never changes, and its doctrines remain the same.


  • I was going to post this but it seemed like I did not really make a new point and it is kind of vague and possibly hard to understand

    There were divisions between the Jews and the Samaritans. How could God accept a samaritan who had completely erred from orthodoxy in the parable of the good samaritan? because he did not know better and God accepted him even though he did not seek further for the truth by himself but Jesus came to the samaritans and the samaritan woman.
    God knew that the samartian would not seek the truth himself because of the jews animosity towards them, he was bound to his family relations and he did not have enough proof that he was worshipping incorrectly. At the time God had stopped walking among the Children of Israel
    Truly God sought after them but does He seek after this generation, I do not know
    For the Son of Man came not to destroys mens lives but to save them. So all the good news of the gospel was not meant for this generation but for the other generations it seems. What is sweet about the bible if it is only sweet to those before us?

    I am not saying who is the samaritan and who is the jew
  • user157, I am really not sure what you are saying? I do urge you to discuss all your concerns with your own spiritual father.

    There is no reason to say that the Lord has some different attitude to this generation. No reason at all.
  • do you equate my preaching to Jesus' preaching?
  • Sasi,

    The article, as with a lot of media write-ups are both intentionally and unintentionally misleading.  The two prelates that are photographed have no authority to sign any declarations of unity.  Bp Angaelos is a General Bishop and he has no real authority in this manner (I am simplifying things and not insulting his being or office).

    These types of pictures and write-ups are publicity stunts by the media to take a simple meeting of local bishops and blow them out of proportion to some how show the great skies and kumbaya descending upon the area.

    The Latin Church sees all Unity and Reunion as being based in accepting the Primacy of the See of Rome.  They really don't care about theology, rites, or dogma.  They have shown that disdain over the centuries and are willing to compromise anything for the sake of Petrine Primacy.

    These types of articles pop up all the time in different regions.  For what it's worth:  they have no meaning.

    As for the Samaritan woman and the Samaritans, the adultress, the prostitute, and the such, the main thing is that they repented and returned to the fold and "orthodoxy" both in capital and small "o".  They did not persist in their heresy and sin.  The bosom is always open for the return, but the penitent or the heretic cannot approach with conditions or trying to establish their own system to be established in that bosom.
  • I get the same impression as you ILSM,
    The catholics I've spoken to, of every different spiritual community (charismatic, traditionalist, anything) really don't care what you believe in so long as you're under Rome. Its being "under Rome" that saves you as far as they are concerned.

    They seem to be innovators of theology rather than custodians of what they have received.

    I do not think, nor do I get the impression, that they think we are saved.

    This is total foolishness on their part, as the COC is an apologetic to any apostolic church that believes and administers the 7 Holy Sacraments of the Church.

    Regardless, what is the situation on Unity anyway? How long will it take until we are united?
  • Don't hold your breath.
    Certainly not in our lifetime.

    Lots of meetings go on, but no concrete advancement.
    Common Declarations are signed but no advancement.

    Having sat in on these joint dialogues, sometimes the Latins will try to sound polite, but ultimately they look down at
    us as being immature that we cannot see the glory of Rome.

  • [quote author=ilovesaintmark link=topic=12864.msg151280#msg151280 date=1328031664]
    Don't hold your breath.
    Certainly not in our lifetime.

    Lots of meetings go on, but no concrete advancement.
    Common Declarations are signed but no advancement.

    Having sat in on these joint dialogues, sometimes the Latins will try to sound polite, but ultimately they look down at
    us as being immature that we cannot see the glory of Rome.

    Whenever we discuss differences we have with our protestant brothers, we talk about the objective of Salvation, and what Christ's intention was for us through the sacraments. I would have never respected the Coptic Church if one of the answers to salvation was "Well, you have to be under a bishop of Damietta, otherwise you're not saved".

    It is awful that we are divided as the RCC is an apostolic church, but the attitude of nearly EVERYONE one i've spoken to is the same: they honestly care more that you are Catholic, obedient to Rome than anything else. They've married muslims in the Churches to Catholics, they sing in tongues and pretend its from the Holy Spirit, they dance during the liturgy around the altar - everything is ok for them , SO LONG as you are under Rome.

    What kind of soteriology is this?

    Their rationale is that Christ said to Peter: "I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church"

    How does being under one bishopric save you?

  • Actually, there is one aspect to the Petrine Primacy that is not discussed and is a direct consequence of acceptance.

    The Roman Church has quite an elaborate system for channeling funds to the Mother See.  All jurisdictions are required to send an amount relative to the number of adherents.  There is never a loss for money or the expression of wealth.  Those big productions are a result even from the days of enslavement of the African continent and the Americas.

    The Vatican Bank is the largest private bank in the world.  Deposits have been made over the centuries since indulgences came into being and the aspect of the development of the Holy Roman Empire.

    Abp. Paul Marcincus back in the 80's was busted for manipulations of accounts and ties to organized crime, ie, the Sicilian Mafia.

    So the Vassal system, the empire system, and mafia system are well and going.
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