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Protestant Concerts
What do you guys think about the Hillsong, Casting Crowns, etc concerts??
Is it ok (beneficial) to attend such concerts? Isn't it "all praising God"? OR can they do more harm than good?
People from my church are already booking tickets, and are all super excited! ???
PPFM
Is it ok (beneficial) to attend such concerts? Isn't it "all praising God"? OR can they do more harm than good?
People from my church are already booking tickets, and are all super excited! ???
PPFM
Comments
What do you guys think about the Hillsong, Casting Crowns, etc concerts??
Is it ok (beneficial) to attend such concerts? Isn't it "all praising God"? OR can they do more harm than good?
People from my church are already booking tickets, and are all super excited! ???
PPFM
Well there's a difference. In my experience Protestants usually "praise" God off of emotion that's why they have drums and guitars and loud speakers. They get caught up with the music and think that they are praising God but in reality most of them are just really getting into the music. This is why our church wisely prohibits the use of instruments in the church.
They aren't really attending a Protestant service/meeting, so they won't really be exposed to Protestant theology. Can any harm be done from these concerts.
Our Church praises are much deeper spiritually than such Protestant concerts.
I agree with Ioannes. Futhermore, the very concept of the concert is praising God in your own way, without the need of the church. If a church is involved it would be a liberal one.
It is important to have some sort of understanding of the nature of God. I believe our church does and has our seed planted in the good soil.
even if you don't believe in protestant theology, protestants believe in Jesus Christ. perhaps I'm oversimplyfying it, but there's no reason to boycott their music just because they're no orthodox.
Concerts are not liturgical by definition. How can we Orthodox pray with the protestants who protest against our faith? How can we pray with them with one accord?
Praising is a liturgical practice where the participants have the same faith and are praying with one accord.
Concerts are not liturgical by definition. How can we Orthodox pray with the protestants who protest against our faith? How can we pray with them with one accord?
I really like this, imikhail.
We tell our youth that they cannot attend the catholic church, yet we do not have orthodox churches where they live.
We tell our youth that they cannot marry outside the Orthodox faith, yet to find a coptic orthodox girl who actually likes you is like finding a needle in a haystack.
Therefore, my 2 cents is this:
In Egypt, there are Orthodox Concerts. If you really love your Church that much, go back to Egypt, a Coptic Orthodox Christian outside Egypt is as good as dead.
In any case, if you really want Protestant concerts, go to any youth group in Egypt or outside of Egypt.
In any case, if you really want Protestant concerts, go to any youth group in Egypt or outside of Egypt.
Agreed. This is a problem
[quote author=Stavro link=topic=12797.msg150330#msg150330 date=1326403352] Isn't eating garbage better than eating stool? Then let us all eat garbage.
In any case, if you really want Protestant concerts, go to any youth group in Egypt or outside of Egypt.
Agreed. This is a problem
Then what's the solution?
[quote author=Zoxsasi link=topic=12797.msg150320#msg150320 date=1326371478]
We are prohibiting this guy from attending a protestant concert, but are we offering the equivalent of an "Orthodox Concert" where this poor fellow lives?
We tell our youth that they cannot attend the catholic church, yet we do not have orthodox churches where they live.
We tell our youth that they cannot marry outside the Orthodox faith, yet to find a coptic orthodox girl who actually likes you is like finding a needle in a haystack.
Therefore, my 2 cents is this:
In Egypt, there are Orthodox Concerts. If you really love your Church that much, go back to Egypt, a Coptic Orthodox Christian outside Egypt is as good as dead.
Amen.
I would happily go to an Orthodox concert any day, but that's a rare commodity here. And so the youth seek other options, i.e. protestant concerns and the like. Tasbeha is no longer an option, because it's "just boring". So what can be done?
[quote author=ReturnOrthodoxy link=topic=12797.msg150340#msg150340 date=1326416670]
[quote author=Stavro link=topic=12797.msg150330#msg150330 date=1326403352] Isn't eating garbage better than eating stool? Then let us all eat garbage.
In any case, if you really want Protestant concerts, go to any youth group in Egypt or outside of Egypt.
Agreed. This is a problem
Then what's the solution?
[quote author=Zoxsasi link=topic=12797.msg150320#msg150320 date=1326371478]
We are prohibiting this guy from attending a protestant concert, but are we offering the equivalent of an "Orthodox Concert" where this poor fellow lives?
We tell our youth that they cannot attend the catholic church, yet we do not have orthodox churches where they live.
We tell our youth that they cannot marry outside the Orthodox faith, yet to find a coptic orthodox girl who actually likes you is like finding a needle in a haystack.
Therefore, my 2 cents is this:
In Egypt, there are Orthodox Concerts. If you really love your Church that much, go back to Egypt, a Coptic Orthodox Christian outside Egypt is as good as dead.
Amen.
I would happily go to an Orthodox concert any day, but that's a rare commodity here. And so the youth seek other options, i.e. protestant concerns and the like. Tasbeha is no longer an option, because it's "just boring". So what can be done?
That the thing. We Orthodox don't do "Concerts." We pray, not watch! And what do you mean by tasbeha is no longer an option because it is just boring? The solution is my name and all that is implied by it...
ReturnOrthodoxy
Why do you desire to be a part of something that is against truth?
Whenever there's tasbeha in church and I invite most of my friends to come they adamantly refuse, they say they don't 'enjoy it'. I think that's partially because we have become so accustomed to praising with guitars and pianos playing in the background. So now most youth are going to Protestant concerts and, simply deem it as praising God
But I think you're 100% correct in what you say. Our problem is that we don't even understand Orthodoxy, let alone practice it.
I should've been more clear.
Whenever there's tasbeha in church and I invite most of my friends to come they adamantly refuse, they say they don't 'enjoy it'. I think that's partially because we have become so accustomed to praising with guitars and pianos playing in the background. So now most youth are going to Protestant concerts and, simply deem it as praising God
But I think you're 100% correct in what you say. Our problem is that we don't even understand Orthodoxy, let alone practice it.
Because our post modern society is more concerned with their own self than with God. This is acceptable unto God and you can learn the whole theology of the church from it. St Hippolytus says that in the end, the Psalmody will not be sung by Christians any longer.
I didn't see that link at first, but I think it clicked now. Thanks clearing it up.
Protestantism is about the self, therefore protestant worship is self worship. They create a god they are comfortable with. They believe what they want Christianity to be NOT what Christianity is. This is lawlessness which Christ speaks of in Mt 7:22
They also make the Bible what they want it to be. You know they almost took out the book of Hebrews because it talked about priesthood and they don't agree with it? It's already enough they took out the Deutrocanonical Books.
I think there are a few reasons why tasbeha is "boring" (this is in no particular order):
1) Sin - it is hard to genuinely praise God without having repented. Your mind constantly wanders and your heart is heavy because it is burdened with guilt and shame.
2) Language - when we pray more than half the hymns in Coptic and no one understands, we are missing the point and not benefiting.
3) Understanding - lack of knowledge concerning the hymns (what they refer to, their purpose, the progression, etc.) limits how deep one can go into the praises.
4) "Hyphy" tasbehas - when the cymbals are played fast, the pitch is high, someone is doing a solo, the volume is up, everyone is bobbin' their heads, etc., something is wrong. We no longer have an argument against the Protestant concert, if we are turning tasbeha into a concert. It should be prayed calmly, the cymbals should be played humbly, no one voice should stand out and we should unite to glorify God. When this is not the case - we will judge one tasbeha as being a "good" one because "folan" was playing the cymbals tight and we said all the cool hymns. . .
5) Lack of preparation - going to asheya before, avoiding small talk, praying the agbeya, etc., all need to be done to prepare one's mind and clear it from the thoughts of the world.
6) Lack of Habituation - You don't like something that is good for you after doing it once. In the same way that any overweight person who goes to the gym hates his life after the first workout, the young kid who never prayed a tasbeha before will hate life after it. But after doing it for a while he will see the fruits. As the fat man loses weight and feels good about himself, the person who continues praying tasbeha will forget himself and focus on God.
7) Role-models - Where are they? Kids want to see the cool servant at tasbeha but all they see is old uncles and the same few chanters who are at church for every occasion. There is no one to connect with. It looks like tasbeha is either for old people or saints.
Please add anything else or correct any problems.
[quote author=Ioannes link=topic=12797.msg150355#msg150355 date=1326426042]
Protestantism is about the self, therefore protestant worship is self worship. They create a god they are comfortable with. They believe what they want Christianity to be NOT what Christianity is. This is lawlessness which Christ speaks of in Mt 7:22
They also make the Bible what they want it to be. You know they almost took out the book of Hebrews because it talked about priesthood and they don't agree with it? It's already enough they took out the Deutrocanonical Books.
Luther also removed Revelations and St James. He referred to James as "The Epistle of Straw". Oddly enough Luther claimed "we are all priests in the congregation of the Lord" Korah in Numbers 16 claimed that "we are all holy in the congregation of the Lord". Why did God kill korah and his followers but accept Luthers protest?
Christ's Servant brings up an important point: The youth think tasbeha is boring.
I think there are a few reasons why tasbeha is "boring" (this is in no particular order):
1) Sin - it is hard to genuinely praise God without having repented. Your mind constantly wanders and your heart is heavy because it is burdened with guilt and shame.
2) Language - when we pray more than half the hymns in Coptic and no one understands, we are missing the point and not benefiting.
3) Understanding - lack of knowledge concerning the hymns (what they refer to, their purpose, the progression, etc.) limits how deep one can go into the praises.
4) "Hyphy" tasbehas - when the cymbals are played fast, the pitch is high, someone is doing a solo, the volume is up, everyone is bobbin' their heads, etc., something is wrong. We no longer have an argument against the Protestant concert, if we are turning tasbeha into a concert. It should be prayed calmly, the cymbals should be played humbly, no one voice should stand out and we should unite to glorify God. When this is not the case - we will judge one tasbeha as being a "good" one because "folan" was playing the cymbals tight and we said all the cool hymns. . .
5) Lack of preparation - going to asheya before, avoiding small talk, praying the agbeya, etc., all need to be done to prepare one's mind and clear it from the thoughts of the world.
6) Lack of Habituation - You don't like something that is good for you after doing it once. In the same way that any overweight person who goes to the gym hates his life after the first workout, the young kid who never prayed a tasbeha before will hate life after it. But after doing it for a while he will see the fruits. As the fat man loses weight and feels good about himself, the person who continues praying tasbeha will forget himself and focus on God.
7) Role-models - Where are they? Kids want to see the cool servant at tasbeha but all they see is old uncles and the same few chanters who are at church for every occasion. There is no one to connect with. It looks like tasbeha is either for old people or saints.
Please add anything else or correct any problems.
Andrew,
You hit the nail on the head!! Am I want to always remember these great points. However, the last two points struck me the most!
If we do we would desire their salvation and pray for them to become orthodox if necessary but why should we slander them so they convert just out of fear and feelings of worthlessness. It is gods job to draw people to himself I responded through my iPhone which is why I am not correcting or adding more lol
I do not appreciate the slander towards people who may not be willfully blind. They have some of the best music is of course written by them. They have talents given by god that u do not have. God wants emotion. He wants us to praise with all our heart. So don't condemn emotion in praising god. Whether Protestantism is acceptable in the eyes of god does not matter for you perhaps but it asks the question do u or i have a relationship with god?
If we do we would desire their salvation and pray for them to become orthodox if necessary but why should we slander them so they convert just out of fear and feelings of worthlessness. It is gods job to draw people to himself I responded through my iPhone which is why I am not correcting or adding more lol
I wonder why you write God as "god".
Why do u call explanation of heretic beliefs as slandering?
It is our responsibility as Orthodox to show the fallacy of the Protestant teachings and its various heresies. This way Orthodox people who may not know the errancy of Protestantism are forewarned.