Hello all! What is the proper order that the deacon's now sing the Aspasmos Adam in? For example, for "Ifrahi ya Mariam," it's never said in the order that's in the book. Also, which verses are the ones that we say regardless of the time of year? For example, for the Feast of the Apostles, we'd say the "Shere peniot..." verse, and then what? Right into "Hina entenhoos"? Or what? Thanks!
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Hello all! What is the proper order that the deacon's now sing the Aspasmos Adam in? For example, for "Ifrahi ya Mariam," it's never said in the order that's in the book. Also, which verses are the ones that we say regardless of the time of year? For example, for the Feast of the Apostles, we'd say the "Shere peniot..." verse, and then what? Right into "Hina entenhoos"? Or what? Thanks!
this is the right way: http://tasbeha.org/hymn_library/view/176
I asked the question before, and was told that the deacon would say "asbazesta allelos en filimati amen" and then the Adam Asbazmos follows, specific verses followed by hena 'ndanhos till the end, then deacon replies with kerialayson till the end (long or short), and finally hedan nebresweya...
Oujai
DEar Michael,
I asked the question before, and was told that the deacon would say "asbazesta allelos en filimati amen" and then the Adam Asbazmos follows, specific verses followed by hena 'ndanhos till the end, then deacon replies with kerialayson till the end (long or short), and finally hedan nebresweya...
Oujai
i think what he refers to and what is confusing to many people is the order of the parts. In the southern diocese liturgy book, the order of efrahi ya mariam is:
1.O-nof emmo
2.owwoh nisheroubim
3.emmon entan
4.tentiho erok
(5.the bishop if present)
6.hina entenhos
7.je ekowab
now, i think (just think) that the the reason they have it that way is that maybe, just maybe in older edition of Nahdet el-kanayes khidmit shamas this was the order written.....but i can't confirm that since i only have a new version of that book--in which the order is the right order, that is:
1.O-nof emmo
2.owwoh nisheroubim
3.emmon entan
4.hina entenhos
5.je ekowab
6.tentiho erok
(7.the bishop if present)
and the reason i say right is because this is what is written in mFarag's book in which he adds a footnote:
رتب أباء الكنيسة ان تكون الطلبات والتشفعات التي يقدمها الشعب إلى الله بواسطة الذي ارضوه منذ البدء وأول المتشفعين العذراء مريم والملائكة والرسل والشهداء والقديسين وفي اخر جميعهم يطلب الشعب لأجل سلامة البابا البطريرك كما هو في مجمع الاباء في التسبحة وأيضاً الهيتنيات، ولذا راعينا في كتابنا هذا الوضع السليم لكي يكون اللحن في ترتيبه الصحيح.
"The Church Fathers arranged that all prayers and intercessions that the people present to God are done through those who pleased Him since the beginning. The first of the intercessors is the Virgin Mary [followed] by the angels, the Apostles, the martyrs and the saints. Thereafter, the people pray for the peace (safety) of the Patriarch as it is in the commemoration of the fathers in [the midnight] praise and the Heteniat (the hymn of the intercessions). Therefore we observed this in our book--this correct status, that the hymn maybe be in its proper order."
Also, just a personal opinion here but... the "right way" makes no sense. "No daring have we....Our lady the lady of us all the theotokos" and then "that we may praise you". Im sorry but please someone explain to me what this means. Now, the "not right" way to me makes more sense."we ask you o son of God to keep the life of our honored father pope shenouda thabitu 3ala korsee"(sorry i dunno the english off by heart) and then "that we may praise you". That just makes more sense you know like simply put, "keep his life, so that we may praise you".
God Bless
I'm sorry but i dont fully understand that explanation. Either way, "Laysa lana dalla" is first and the one for the pope is after it, whether right away or after a few verses, and the other verses(likay nusabihok, qudoos) dont ask for intercessions (unless i am mistaken).
Also, just a personal opinion here but... the "right way" makes no sense. "No daring have we....Our lady the lady of us all the theotokos" and then "that we may praise you". Im sorry but please someone explain to me what this means. Now, the "not right" way to me makes more sense."we ask you o son of God to keep the life of our honored father pope shenouda thabitu 3ala korsee"(sorry i dunno the english off by heart) and then "that we may praise you". That just makes more sense you know like simply put, "keep his life, so that we may praise you".
my opinion: i think it's easier to think about it without consider "layysa lana dalla" simply because it's part of the specific aspasmos (efrahee ya mariam) rather than part of the repeated parts (hina entenhos).
to me, it makes since to have it after hina entenhoos where you are saying "that we may praise You"--specifically speaking to the Son of God where after we ask for the life of our pope. yes, it can fit after "Layssa lana dalla" but it also fits better after hina entenhoos. despite all of this and my opinion, the order was written as i have it in the new version of nahdet el-kanayes and Albair's book. also cantors and always recorded it that way.
it is worth noting thoo that the old muharraq book (the one i have was printed august 1959) have it in the order of the Southern diocese book......BUT the Pope and bishop parts only appear in Onof emmo and not the other adam aspasmoses (being one of 5 others that can be said annually.)
i can see how what i copied from m.farag's book doesn't help much but i think it atleast hints that a change was made in this version compared to other versions in books.
Oujai
Ok, i get it if its the aspasmos adam for like the resurrection but specifically for ifrahi ya mariam, the words dont make sense when we ask you is put last. Like if you just read the words, it doesnt make sense
well maybe the cantors decided to change the order for the Pope and Bishop parts to be added after hina entenhoos that they may be said all yr around.
However, still wondering, for feast and fast Aspasmos Adam, which verses do we say?
The verses of the occasion and than Hina entenhoos.
[quote author=Michael Boutros link=topic=11684.msg140071#msg140071 date=1308751077]
Hello all! What is the proper order that the deacon's now sing the Aspasmos Adam in? For example, for "Ifrahi ya Mariam," it's never said in the order that's in the book. Also, which verses are the ones that we say regardless of the time of year? For example, for the Feast of the Apostles, we'd say the "Shere peniot..." verse, and then what? Right into "Hina entenhoos"? Or what? Thanks!
this is the right way: http://tasbeha.org/hymn_library/view/176
It should be noted that for the specific Aspasmos Adam of "Onof Emo Maria...," the specific parts are the first three in that link. The parts that always repeat regardless of the occasion begin at and include "Hina enten hos..."
[quote author=Amdah link=topic=11684.msg140091#msg140091 date=1308772303]
I'm sorry but i dont fully understand that explanation. Either way, "Laysa lana dalla" is first and the one for the pope is after it, whether right away or after a few verses, and the other verses(likay nusabihok, qudoos) dont ask for intercessions (unless i am mistaken).
Also, just a personal opinion here but... the "right way" makes no sense. "No daring have we....Our lady the lady of us all the theotokos" and then "that we may praise you". Im sorry but please someone explain to me what this means. Now, the "not right" way to me makes more sense."we ask you o son of God to keep the life of our honored father pope shenouda thabitu 3ala korsee"(sorry i dunno the english off by heart) and then "that we may praise you". That just makes more sense you know like simply put, "keep his life, so that we may praise you".
God Bless
I know what you mean but in my opinion, there is a flaw in the old way. In the old way, saying "Tenti ho erok..." then "Hina enten hos...," makes it sound like we're making a deal with God in that if He keeps the life of the patriarch, we will praise Him.
In the new way, it makes it sound like we will always praise Him first regardless of the times and then we ask Him to keep the life of the patriarch.