Saints and their lives

edited December 1969 in Random Issues
HI veiwers!!
Who is your intercessor and what is his life story??? can every one post their intercessor and their life story so we could all get to know that saint much better and our knowledge becomes bigger when it comes to saints.
Ill start off by saing mine,
I got his stor off

St.Karas the anachorite,
By, St.Bemwa
st. Bemwa explains, "I will teach you my brothers of what went on during one of these days." I heard a voice saying to me three times "YA BEMWA...YA BEMWA...YA BEMWA...", and it came to my attention that the voice was a heavenly voice from the sky and not familiar to me. Since not too many people called me by my name I raised my eyes towards heaven and said, "Speak O' Lord for your servant is listening", and the voice said to me "get up Bemwa and hurry speedily to the inner wilderness where you will meet St. Karas and take his blessing for he is very honorable to me more than anyone else for many are the times that he has tired himself for Me, and My peace will be with you."

So I left my church and headed out in the wilderness alone in great joy while I did not know the way, assured that the Lord which has commanded me will lead me. Three days passed, and I still traveled alone. On the fourth day I arrived at one of the caves and the entrance was closed with a great rock. I proceeded to the entrance and knocked as it is a habit of the brothers and said AGHABY (AGAPE) meaning LOVE and said bless me o saintly father. Instantly I heard a voice from the inside saying to me "it is good that you be here today Bemwa, priest of the church of the mountain of sheebhat that is worthy of the burial of the blessed St. Elarya, daughter of the great king Zenon." The door was opened for me and I entered and he kissed me and I kissed him, and we sat discussing God’s greatness and His glory. I said to him "My saintly father, is there another in this mountain that resembles you?". He stared at my face and sighed then said, "My beloved son there is in the inner wilderness a great saint that the world is not deserving of a single step of his feet, and he is St. Karas." Then I stood and asked, "then my father who are you?" He said to me, "I am Simon El Kallah, and it is to me this day sixty years without seeing the face of a man, and was blessed every Saturday with a loaf of bread placed on that stone which you see outside the cave."

After I was blessed by him I walked on in the wilderness three more days in prayer and praises until I reached another cave with it’s entrance closed. I knocked and said bless me my saintly father. He answered me saying, "It is well your arrival to us saint of God, St. Bemwa, who was deserving of anointing the body of St. Elarya daughter of king Zenon enter in peace." I entered and we sat speaking and I said to him "I was told that there is in the wilderness another saint that resembles you?" He stood, sighed and said to me "great is my... I inform you my father that in this wilderness is a great saint that his prayers stops the anger that descends from heaven, he is him that truly a partner of the angels." I asked him "And what is your name my father the saint?" He said " My name is Abbamoud El Kallah, and it has been to me in this wilderness seventy nine years living on these palms that yields dates, thanking Christ."

After he blessed me I left his dwelling with joy and peace and proceeded at night finding myself unable to see the road and unable to walk. After a while had passed I opened my eyes and found myself in front of a cave in a stone of a mountain, I proceeded to the entrance and knocked and said "AGHABY" and instantly a voice spoke to me from the inside saying, "It is well that you came today St. Bemwa, saint of god, who was worthy of anointing the body of St. Elarya daughter of king Zenon." So I entered the cave and stared at him for a long while, for he was of a strong presence and great humbleness. He was a person of great radiance and the grace of God reflected in his face, his eyes were very shiny, and he was of medium stature with a long beard with a few black hairs left in it. Wearing a simple galabia (gown), for he was very skinny with a light voice and a cane in his hand. He said, "You have came to me today and brought me with you death, for today a long while I have waited for you my beloved." I said to him "And what is your name my father the saint?" He said to me "My name is Karas." So I asked to him, "how many years have you been in this wilderness?" He said to me, "In fifty seven years I have not seen the face of a man, and I waited for you with all joy and eagerness." Then I dwelt with him for a day, at the end of the day our father Karas became sick with a great fever, and he would sigh and cry. He said "That which I have feared all my life has come to me today so Lord where do I hide from your face? How do I hide? Truly great is the fear of this hour...according to your mercy O' Lord and not according to my sins."

When the sun had rose the second day and St. Karas was laying in bed unable to move, a great light that surpasses the sun shined at the entrance of the cave, and entered a man with great radiance wearing white clothing bright as the sun. In his right hand a glowing cross. I was in that time sitting at the feet of St. Karas and was overcome with fear and awe. This radiant man proceeded towards St. Karas and placed the cross on his face, and spoke with him many words and gave us peace and departed. I proceeded to our father St. Karasto investigate who is this man with all this glory? So he said to me with all happiness"That is CHRIST THE LORD as it is His habit to come to me everyday to bless me, andconverse with me and departs." I said to him "My father the saint I desire for the Lord of grace to bless me." So he said to me "Before you leave this place you will see CHRIST THE LORDin His glory and He will bless you and talk with you also." When we had come to the seventh day of the month abib I found that St. Karas had raised his eyes to heaven while gushingwith tears and sighing deeply and said to me "Today a great pillar has fallen in rural Egypt, and the whole earth has lost a great saint that the whole world is not worthy of being his footstool. He is Anba Shenouda the Archimandrite and I have seen his blessed spirit ascending to the highest of the heaven in the praising of the angels, and I hear crying and wailing allover the land of rural Egypt, and the monks have gathered around the blessed body, being blessed by it as it radiates with light." When I heard that I kept in mind the remembrance of the passing away of Anba Shenouda the Archimandrite as the seventh of abib. On the following day or the eighth of abib the illness of our St. Karas grew stronger, and in the middle of that day a strong light appeared at the door of the cave and entered the Savior of the world and preceding Him the archangels Michael and Gabriel with a fleet of angels with six wings and the sounds of praises here and there with the smell of incense. I was seated at the feet of St. Karas, so the Lord whereof glory proceeded sat at thehead of St. Karas, who held our Savior’s right hand and said to him "For my sake O' my Lord and my God, bless him for he has come to me from a far place for the sake of this day." The Lord of glory looked to me and said, "My peace be with you bemwa, what you have seen andheard you say and write to be made for good use of it, but as for you karas, my beloved, every man that knows your story and makes remembrance of your name on earth, my peace shall be with him and i shall count him with the commemoration of the holy saints, and every man that offers wine or bread or incense or oil or candle in remembrance of your name i shall reward him multiples in the heavenly kingdom, and whoever feeds him who is hungry or gives drink to him who is thirsty or clothe him who is naked or takes in a stranger in your name i reward him multiples in my kingdom. and he who writes your holy story i will write his name in the book of life, and everyone who has mercy in your memory i will give him what no eye has seen and what no ear has heard and what has not ocuured to a man’s heart. and now my beloved karas i want you to ask me a favor to do for you before your passing on" So St. Karas said to him "my Lord I used the psalms day and night and I desired to seeDavid the Prophet while I’m in the flesh." And in a blink of an eye David came holding in his hand a harp and playing the psalm ‘this is the day which the Lord has made let us rejoice and be glad in it.’ St. Karas said, "I want to hear all ten strings in one tune and the songs and praises together." So David moved his harp and said "precious before the lord is the soundof those who obey him." While David sang the psalms with the harp and his beautiful voice, the saint in great rejoice let his spirit leave his holy body to the bosom of our good Savior, Who took it, kissed it, and gave it to archangel Michael. Then I, Bemwa, leaped and kissed the bodyof St. Karas and anointed it, and the Lord of glory signaled to me to walk out. So I did and He walked out and with Him the angels with praises and prayers in front of the spirit of the saint and we left his body in the cave. The Lord placed his hands on the cave and it became as it never had an entrance, and all ascended to heaven in joy, and I remained alone in that position until that beautiful sight was gone from me. Then I closed my eyes from the strength of the light and glorious sight, when I opened them again I found myself in front of the cave of St. Abbamod El Kallah so I dwelt with him three days then I left and went to saint SimonEl Kallah and dwelt with him three days more. Then I left him and returned to mount sheehat where my church is. There I met all the brothers and told them the story of blessed St. Karasthe great and his words about the passing away of Anba Shenouda the Archimandrite. After five days a letter came to us from rural Egypt saying that the St. Anba Shenoudathe Archimandrite had passed away in peace on the same day as St. Karas saw him. The blessings of St. Mary, the mother of the true light, and the St. Anba Shenouda the Archimandrite and St. Karas be with us, and to our Lord, all glory forever amen.


  • Hi,
    My intercessors are St. George, the prince of the martyrs and St. Bishoy, the perfect man:

    The Martyrdom of St. George Prince of the Martyrs.
    On this day, of the year 37 A.D., the great among the martyrs St. George, was martyred. He was born in Cappadocia; his father's name was Anastasius, and his mother's name was Theobaste. When he was twenty years old, his father died, and he went to Emperor Diocletian to take over his father's position. He found that the Emperor had apostatized the faith and ordered the worship of idols. George was sorrowful, and he gave all his wealth to the poor and needy and set free his slaves.

    When he saw the edict of the Emperor against the Christians, he became raged and tore it. They took him before the Emperor, and he cried in their middest saying: "For how long you shall pour your anger against the innocent Christians, and force those who know the true faith to adopt the faith that you are in doubt of because it is fraudulent? So, either you believe on this true faith, or at least do not disturb with foolishness those who are steadfast in it." The Emperor asked Mephnanius, one of his ministers, to pacify and persuade him. He asked him: "Who taught you to be daring like this." The Saint answered: "It is the truth," then started to explain it to him. The Emperor interrupted, reminding the Saint with the ranks that he bestowed on him, and promised him with more if he denied his Christ. The Saint refused with pride all these vain propositions. The Emperor tortured him severely, but the Lord strengthened him and healed all his wounds.

    When the Emperor was weary of torturing him, he brought a magician, whose name was Athanasius, who gave the Saint a cup full of poison to drink. St. George made the sign of the cross over the cup then drank it. When no harm came upon him, the magician believed in the Lord Christ, and received the crown of martyrdom. The Emperor became raged and ordered to squeeze him until he delivered up his soul, and they cast his body out side the city.

    The Lord Christ raised him up, and the Saint returned to the city. When the people saw him, three thousand and seven hundred souls believed. The Emperor ordered to cut off their heads and they received the crown of martyrdom.

    When St. George stood before Emperor Diocletian, along with seventy kings that were sitting around him, they asked the Saint: "We wish you to make these chairs that we are sitting on to put forth leaves, and bear fruit." The Saint prayed to the Lord Christ, the Lord accepted his supplication and the chairs put forth leaves and bore fruit.

    They took him once to a cemetery and asked him to raise the dead therein. He prayed to the Lord Christ. The Lord raised them and after they talked to them, they returned to their graves and died.

    A poor woman, brought her son, who was blind, deaf and dumb, he prayed to the Lord Christ then made the sign of the cross over him, and he was healed right away.

    Diocletain, during all that, went on torturing St. George, until he was weary and bored of that. He started to be pleasant to the Saint and promised to give him his daughter in marriage if he would offer the incense to his gods. The Saint pretended that he accepted his offer, and the Emperor rejoiced and brought him into the royal palace. While St. George was praying the Psalms, the Empress heard him and asked him to explain to her what he had said. He began to interpret to her all the events from the creation of the world to the Incarnation of the Lord Christ, and his words entered her heart and she believed in the Lord Christ, to Whom is the Glory.

    The Emperor ordered to call upon all the men of the city to gather, in order to see Saint George offering the incense to the Emperor's gods. When multitude gathered by the idols, Gawargios (George) stood and cried at the idols in the Name of the Lord Christ the Savior of the world. The earth opened its mouth and swallowed all the idols. The Emperor and all those who were with him were ashamed and he returned to his palace full of fury and wrath. The Empress told him: "Didn't I tell you not to oppose the Galileans, for their God is strong and mighty?" The Emperor was exceedingly wrath with her, for he knew that St. George had brought her also to his faith. The Emperor with rage ordered to comb her body with a steel comb, then cut off her head, and she received the crown of martyrdom. Finally, Diocletian decided to put an end to the humiliation that befell him, so he ordered to cut off the head of St. George, and he received the crown of martyrdom. A Christian took the body, wrapped it in expensive shrouds, and took it to the city of Lydda, his home town, and they built a great church on his name there.

    His intercession be with us and Glory be to our God forever. Amen.
  • ... St. Bishoy the perfect man:

    The Departure of St. Anba Bishoy.
    On this day, St. Bishoy, whose memorial is honorable, the star of the desert, departed. He was born in a town called Shansa in Egypt, and he had six brothers. His mother saw an angel in a vision saying to her, "The Lord says to you, give Me one of your children to serve Me." She answered, "Lord, take whoever you want." The angel took the hand of Anba Bishoy, who was thin and his body was frail. His mother told the angel, "My Lord, take one who is strong to serve the Lord." "This is whom the Lord has chosen," answered the Angel.

    Later on, St. Bishoy went to the wilderness of Shiheet and became a monk by the hand of Anba Bemwah (Bamouyah), who also ordained St. John "Yehness" the Short a monk. St. Bishoy struggled in much asceticism and many worships that made him worthy to see the Lord Christ.

    Emperor Constantine appeared to him in a vision, saying, "Had I known how great is the honor of monks, I would have abandoned my kingdom and became a monk." St. Bishoy told him, "You have banished the heathen worship and exalted Christianity, and has not Christ given you anything?" Emperor Constantine answered him, "The Lord has given me many gifts, but none of them is like the honor of the monks."

    During his days, an ascetic old man appeared in the mountain of Ansena, who was reputed for his righteousness and to whom many people gathered. But he deviated from the true faith and the devil lead him astray. He taught that there is no Holy Spirit, and many were deceived by his sayings. Anba Bishoy heard about him, and he went to him and he had with him a weaved basket with three ears. When he visited the old man and his followers, they asked him about the reason for making three ears for the basket. He answered, "I have a Trinity, and everything I do, is like the Trinity." They said to him, "Then, Is there a thing called the Holy Spirit?" Then he started to explain to them from the Holy Scriptures, from the Old and New Testaments. He indicated to them that the Holy Spirit is One of the three Persons of the Trinity. He convinced them, and they returned to the true faith. Then he returned to his monastery in the wilderness of Scete (Shiheet). When the barbarians invaded the wilderness, he left it and dwelt on Mount Ansena, where he departed. After the time of persecution had ended, they brought his body with the body of St. Paul of Tamouh to his monastery in the wilderness of Shiheet.

    May his prayers be with us. Amen.
  • Only St. Mary, St. Joseph, the Archangels, Heavenly Host, and Children of Bethlehem are considered as intercessors.

    GeorgeT, you copied my favorite saint. It's alright though; I give you permission to like Anba Karas too. You're welcome.
  • Lol.
    I think that you get what we meant. What is "Children of Bethlehem"?
    GB, PFM
  • Yeah I get what you mean, but ilovesaintmark yelled at me last time I used the word "intercessor" when referring to a saint, so I thought it'd be cool if I got to yell at someone for once.

    144,000 children whom Herod killed when Baby Jesus was born.
  • I guess it is ok. But I call dips on yelling at the next person who uses intercessor inappropriatly!!!  ;)
    Wow! 144 000 killed! I guess you learn something everyday.
    What is the difference in between an intecessor or a person who prays on someones behalf?
    Why are[quote author=TITL link=topic=10507.msg127646#msg127646 date=1295566653]
    Only St. Mary, St. Joseph, the Archangels, Heavenly Host, and Children of Bethlehem are considered as intercessors.

  • [quote author=TITL link=topic=10507.msg127646#msg127646 date=1295566653]
    Only St. Mary, St. Joseph, the Archangels, Heavenly Host, and Children of Bethlehem are considered as intercessors.

    GeorgeT, you copied my favorite saint. It's alright though; I give you permission to like Anba Karas too. You're welcome.

    Firs thank you :P
    And second an intercessor is a person who prays for you, my priest refers to st.samuel as his intercessor. In my opinion any1 who prays on ur behalf is an intercessor, i think.
  • In tasbeha, we say: Intercede on our behalf... and Pray to the Lord on our behalf.
    What is the difference?
  • Interceding is like telling your mom to convince your dad to let you play outside with your friends. Praying on someone's behalf is like telling your older, mature brother to help you convince your dad. Your dad will listen to you anyway (might not let you play, but will still listen), but your mom can help change his mind. When your dad sees that you have asked your brother, he will notice the persistence and fervor in your request and might let you play outside because he trusts and loves your older brother, since he is very mature.

    You might ask: "But can intercessors really change God's (mind) will?" I may be wrong, as I usually am, but I believe so. Remember in the Tamav Erini movie when her mother was about to die, Tamav prayed to Virgin Mary and her mom was made well again? Before St. George operated on her, he told St. Mary, "You know her case is over", and St. Mary responded with, "Yes, but she interceded through me and I have asked my Son to extend her life".

    Although God is fully Merciful and fully Just, St. Mary's intercessions helps Him have "more" (for lack of a better word) compassion and mercy on the world.
  • I agree with pretty much everything TITL says, except that even through the intercessions and prayers, if its not according to His plan to begin with, He will not change it. To imply that God changes His mind makes it seem like the way He was doing things before was wrong, which is not right to think that way. God is never wrong. You can think of the intercessions and prayers as a means for the saints to participate in salvation of others. They are constantly praying and interceding on our behalf, but do not act or "change" Gods mind if it is not His will to begin with. If it is His will to extend a life, that means He never really planned on taking them at that time in the first place, but meant to glorify His name through a miracle in which it seems He is extending life. It can be a difficult concept to grasp but the key is, at least in my opinion, it is not right to say we changed Gods mind.
  • I don't agree with you. I never said God is wrong. I just think His will can change through intercessions. He might have a set date for a person to die, like with Tamav Erini's mom, but, I think, intercessions can help change His will. Of course, it would only change for the good. I don't know.. I just don't like what you're saying lol. Sorry.
  • Lol, You don't have to like what I am saying or agree with it at all, its ok I am used to people not liking what I have to say haha. The same way what I said doesn't sit right with you, what you are saying doesn't sit right with me. I can't see how God can have His mind changed or His will altered. In Tamavs mother's case I would still argue, that from His foreknowledge of St Mary's intercessions, He never truly intended to take her that day, but as I said, still wanted St Mary to intercede on her behalf and be a part of salvation of others and glorifying His name.
  • I guess you're right. To be honest, what you're saying makes more sense to me, but my conscious is telling me otherwise.

    I know for sure that God foreknew Tamavs mother's death, even before St. Mary interceded. So, what I'm saying is, He knows He's going to change His mind. He allows for His mind to change (that came out weird), for the reason you stated: the Glory of His Name.

    I'm probably wrong.
  • Thank you TITL for you metaphor of intercession vs. prayer. I really like it.
    But in regards to changing God's mind, that, in my opinion is completely wrong.
    God already knows my beginning (obviously), and my end. His will can't be altered.
    I also don't like you guys saying, God can cange his MIND, for God is not a human being, with arms legs... (That its just a techincallity)
    Anyways, I really like you metaphor and will use it as much as possible if I get asked this question.
    God bless, and Pray for me to be wise as you (all of you),
  • Lol why would you use my metaphor if it's themed around "changing God's will" and you don't agree with that?
  • Sorry. Maybe, I wasn't clear.
    I like around 51% ;) of what you are saying:
    Intercession- mom
    Prayer- mature brother
    God- dad
    I feel that it really makes sense but at the end, it doesn't change God's will, he works
    thru the saints, and martyrs for the salvation of others and the glorification of His name.
    Sorry, if I offended you with the 49% :P
    God bless, Pray for me to be as wise as you,
  • [quote author=TITL link=topic=10507.msg127646#msg127646 date=1295566653]
    Only St. Mary, St. Joseph, the Archangels, Heavenly Host, and Children of Bethlehem are considered as intercessors.

    GeorgeT, you copied my favorite saint. It's alright though; I give you permission to like Anba Karas too. You're welcome.
    [quote author=TITL link=topic=10507.msg127755#msg127755 date=1295643333]
    Lol why would you use my metaphor if it's themed around "changing God's will" and you don't agree with that?

    I am wondering bow did u find out about st.karas?
  • Intercessors:

    The Mother of God--St Mary
    All the Heavenly Hosts:  Angels, Archangels, Principalities, Thrones, Incorporal Beings, etc.
    St. John the Baptist
    144,000 Innocents of Bethlehem.

    St. Joseph is not from the list of intercessors.  We ask for the prayers of St. Joseph.

    The term intercessor is being widely and loosely used amongst Egyptians like the loose use of the word "deacon".

    In the strict sense of the term it has been discussed previously.

    If anyone cares:  My favorite saint is St. Mark the Apostle and pure martyr.  I do not need to write his story because he is so amazing.  Just his name is enough said.  The Pope even wrote a book about him.
    He is so amazing that ilovesaintmark.

    However, my favorite intercessor, is the Archangel Gabriel.
  • I especially love St Severus and St Timothy Aelurus and St Dioscorus. I ask for their prayers with St Cyril and St Athanasius, (who is one of the patrons of my own church together with St Alban - the proto-martyr of the British Isles).

    Father Peter
  • ilovesaintmark,

    After reading and memorizing the Gospel of Saint Mark, I can guess one of the reasons why you love him. His Gospel is the most brief, to the point, and direct Gospel from the four. Your posts have a very similar style.

    Father Peter,

    What do you say about God changing His will through intercessions?
  • I am on my way to one of the British Orthodox churches to give an ecumenical talk. So I can't post easily on my phone.

    But... I rather think that prayer changes the world. I mean that when we pray, and when the saints pray with us and intercede on our behalf, it changes the nature of the world in which we find ourselves and therefore - in some sense - opens up more opportunities for God to act.

    When a child is naughty there are often few ways for a parent to respond. There is sometimes a need only for discipline and a sharp word. But where there is a positive relationship there are many more possibilities for the parent to choose for the good of their child.

    In some limited sense I wonder if, when we are united in prayer, the unity of purpose in faith allows God to act in other ways?

    Not mechanically. But we know that our Lord did not perform many miracles in some places because there was no faith. This does not mean that he absolutely could not do as he chose. But that the lack of faith limited what he chose to consider as the right action at that time according to his perfect will.

    I don't think our prayers change God's mind. I do think that they allow God to act in other ways for our salvation.

    If a person never goes to a doctor he will stay ill. If he goes occasionally and half-heartedly follows the Doctors instructions then he might see some relief.

    If he is seriously ill even, but visits the Doctor with friends and family who are all united in a desire to see this illness overcome then the Doctor has much greater opportunity to prescribe a saving treatment.

    I don't have a definite answer but I think I see it somewhat like that.

    Father Peter
  • Let me rephrase my question with more appropriate wording (but same idea) : Does God's Will always happen? He doesn't change His mind, but through prayers and intercessions, can He allow for something that wasn't His will to happen? Again, like with Tamav Erini's mom?

    Fr. Peter, you said God may act in other ways. Would those "other ways" also be considered His will? How can it be if He only has one will?
  • How about I answer my own question, and you correct me? :) Good plan.

    I believe God's will doesn't always happen. For example, He wills for no one to sin, but we do..etc.

    I also believe (and this may be the part where no one agrees with me) that through prayers and intercessions, God may allow for something other than His will to happen. He might find that the perfect time for a certain person to leave tribulation/sickness is at a certain age when they are spiritually able, but MAYBE He can allow for that date to change if St. Mary asks Him? Although He might not see that it's suitable, He might allow it anyway because of the person's faith and prayers? That's what I think.

    God doesn't have more than one will, but I think He can change things around, like you said Father "act in other ways", through prayer. I don't think He would allow for something (through prayer) that is against His will though.. only something that is similar to it.

    Although I am directing this towards Fr. Peter, I hope everyone else can share their opinions. I want to know what you all think as well.

    GeorgeT, Anba Karas found me during a time of trouble, and saved me from it. That's how I found out about him. Glory be to God!
  • These are really nice posts! I havn't been on in a long time studying for exams - speaking of studying for exams, Pope Kyrillos is my friend, and the friends of many who ask for his intercessions for the exams to come.

    He is the Intercessor of the students. He is loving and he truly prays for the students who ask for him.

    I want to share a page that lists miracles of a number of saits that are truly beautiful.

    May their blessings be with us all! Amen!
  • I just asked my parents and they don't agree with me, go figure. They told me that St. Mary cannot convince God for something that isn't His will; He won't allow it. I have been assuming and misunderstanding that scene in Tamav Erini's movie. When St. George was saying "her case is over", he wasn't referring to God's will but rather the situation she was in and her critical case. I thought he was talking based on God's will.

    I understand now :)
  • Why would anyone WANT to change God's Will?

    His will is perfect, His will is our salvation, He knows best what is good for us for He knows us better than we know ourselves..

    I think, when it comes to prayers and intercession, Jesus Himself taught us an important lesson in Gethsemane:

    “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.” (Matt 26)

    We let our will be known to God, we talk to Him, ask of Him, call out to Him, but in the end, it is (or should be) our deepest wish that not our (possibly faulty) will, but His (definitly perfect) will be done.

    Also, prayer benefits us regardless of whether they are answered positively or negatively.. the fact that we humble ourselves before Him and spend time with Him enjoying His fatherly love and praising Him is more than enough..

    there, my 2 cents.. :)
  • In my opinion god does not change his will but when the saints pray for us god shows us in the time of trouble why what is gong on may be good for us.
    Ex- we start slacking in school then our grades drop. we pray then are able to understand that this is because of our slacking and god may want us to work harder. I may be wrong but that is how i am seeing things.

    Also the saints and martyrs though we say for some through the intercessions or through the prayers they are all intercessors for us. That is what my priest told me when I asked him this morning. 
  • From the human perspective I don't think that we should think in terms of God having one will. Or rather his will is for our good, and that is worked out in a great variety of ways, indeed in an infinite multiplicity of ways that take into account all the the needs of all of humanity.

    From the incomprehensible to man divine perspective all of time is laid out before God and he is present to all of creation at all times in his own present. In a sense we cannot imagine all that has been and will be already exists for God.

    When we pray there are more opportunities for God to act.

    I might have one purpose for my child. That he grow and be healthy and good etc etc. But when I deal with my child different aspects of this one purpose come to the fore. I might want my child to exercise, but if he is being naughty I might send him to his room. Does this contradict my 'will'? I don't think so at all, because we should not think in terms of the detail but the overall purpose, both of parenting, and of God's divine care for us.

    If my child is naughty it limits how I can relate with him, though it does not change my purpose for him. He needs to stay in his room for a while. He can't go out and play, he can't watch TV etc etc. But when he apologises then a variety of other options might become available within my overarching purpose. It might now become appropriate for him to go and play outside.

    His apology did not change my mind, or my purpose, but it allowed me greater scope to work out my purpose.

    I think that this is somewhat how our prayers operate.

    Father Peter
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