Biboboy
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- Biboboy
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Agape, It sort of boils down to money.... :-\ The deaconate is not only a liturgical service, but a full social service. If a diocese (or a large parish) can afford to pay for the sustenance of a deacon, then they could choose to ordain a deacon.…
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Bibo, I wasn't attacking your post. I just wanted to make the distinction very clear since it seemed most people were of the opinion that the two conditions are the same. Subconsciously they seemed to believe, if the Christian suffering from moments…
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Agape, Remenkimi, no one suggested that atheism should be preached from the pulpit of the church. It certainly is a denial of what the church believes, and affirmation of belief in God's presence and the grace given to us through the sacraments Ch…
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The liturgical rites reflect the biblical commands and put them in practice and that is why the greeting command, the holy kiss, comes right before the anafora and in no way can be put off as the last ritual act right before communion. I've already …
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It was written in the time of Emperor Domitian's rule, so probably around 95 A.D.
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Agape, The soldier martyrs were not Christians when they were serving as soldiers. It's impossible for them to even enter into the Roman Empire's military without first taking the military oath of allegiance to the Emperor, which had idolatrous con…
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[quote author=✞TheGodChrist✞ link=topic=12639.msg148445#msg148445 date=1323062126] [quote author=GabrielYakub link=topic=12639.msg148435#msg148435 date=1323051008] The God Christ: The short of it is, overtime I became unconvinced that God existed. …
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Agape, I'm not sure why everyone is so hard on Gabriel here already, when he just introduced himself. Perhaps he may have turned to atheism in his quest to understand more about his life, especially since he's been involved in the Coptic church and…
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The door is closed in death. Until then, every morning that the person wakes up to is another day that God gives for the repentance of that soul.
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I was refusing to answer anymore of your comments on Fr. Matta's book. Since the subject changed to Scripture, I have no issues engaging in this topic. The problem with the way you used Scripture was first: 1) Not quoting it in full, which in tur…
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Agape, In another thread called "My friends are leaving the Coptic Church," this topic came up. Since it's related to the subject of mission, I'm gonna copy and paste what I wrote there. In summary, if we are to preach to others, we preach Orthodox…
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[quote author=imikhail link=topic=12526.msg148380#msg148380 date=1322931478] What Biboboy is saying makes sense if we look at this historically in the ancient church's context. Of course today's liturgy has developed over the centuries so that it's…
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You are more confused than ever. The very same quote that you're stuck on, quoted in Arabic in red above, should be read in context. Fr. Matta in this section of the book is talking about the liturgy as per the evidence from St. Justin Martyr. N…
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Keep going with the rest of the book. With the quote above, he's talking about the present rite, where the prospherin covers the altar in order to begin the Liturgy of the Word, and through the descriptive Eucharist. The Ending used to be the comm…
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You really have trouble reading, don't you? It says that the offering was done already, thanksgiving prayer prayed, the litanies prayed, everything done, and the offering has been already changed to the Body and Blood of Christ. Hence, the whole p…
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ولكن برجوع القارئ الدارس إلى جدول المقارنة الذي قدَّمناه في صفحة (19) بين طقس تقديم الحمل وطقس إفخارستية مرقس الرسول، يجد أن الأمر يستحيل بأي حال من الأحوال أن ينطبق عليه مجرَّد وضع قرابين على المذبح. فهو إفخارستية كاملة كمالاً متقناً دقيقاً، [يبدأ…
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Other than providing you with an entire source, Fr. Matta el-Meskeen's 2 books on the Eucharist, in which the whole argument of the books was to show that the Offertory was a whole Eucharistic service and in which part that the deacon says "greet on…
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Lord Jesus Christ have mercy! Can't you read man? At least read the very last sentence of the very last quote if you can't read the rest. It says that the Offertory was a complete Eucharistis rite, and it says very clearly that in this Eucharisti…
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Unfortunately, you're not understanding what I'm saying here. You are referring to the contemporary liturgy as we have it now. I'm not referring to that at all - I'm referring to the history of how it developed to why we have now, and what remains i…
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I already referred you to the research done by Fr. Matta. I don't have to go and repeat the same research he did - that is useless. If I have something new to add to what he says in his research, I will do my research and report my new findings, but…
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Habibi, The quote you have from the Hippolytus is incomplete, and as such inaccurate. Like I said the greeting with the bishop and the rest of the people is the END of the bishop's ordination rite. The next section that begins the deacons offering …
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Well, you asked for it :P You brought up Hippolytus' Apostolic Tradition. A careful reading indicates that the reference to the greeting is at the end of the baptismal service. First, there is the bishop who anoints the newly baptized (after the ba…
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[quote author=imikhail link=topic=12526.msg148312#msg148312 date=1322836088] The deacon's part mentioned in this thread (the long aspazesthe) is a relic of the older liturgies that used to be prayed on Saturday nights (it was considered Sunday back …
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Agape, The deacon's part mentioned in this thread (the long aspazesthe) is a relic of the older liturgies that used to be prayed on Saturday nights (it was considered Sunday back then). That response was in fact the call by the deacon for the congr…
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I'm afraid you're making up that "huge" exaggeration. The Coptic Encyclopedia translates the Arabic word "Madeeha" into "Psali" in English. It has the following to say in the fourth section of its entry on Coptic Music: 4. The Psalis (Coptic: 'al…
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As a brotherly suggestion, I hope you put your zealoutry to use in the content of the Coptic hymns, translating them to show their spiritual meaning and significance to those who do not understand them or find no use for them. That will be a far m…
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@Mina: the decision for the translation was not mine to make. I'm only informing you of the logic we had for our translations, and yes, we try our best (as humanly possible) to remain consistent. "Remind them of this, and warn them before God* tha…
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We cannot use the word "hymn" for "madeeha," since that's the translation we use for the word "la7n." Arabic Madeeha's and Coptic Psali's have these in common: 1) The same tune. 2) Many verses, which are chanted in a recitative tune (relative to w…
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@mina: there are Coptic Psali's in the Annual Psalmody book that are not ordered alphabetically. Take a look at the weekday Psali's for Christ. Psali just means song. It's the same word for madeeha or tarteela, which is what it is. In the Kiahk r…
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@mina: who said all the Psali's are alphabetically ordered? How else would you translate "Madeeha"? @peter: the digital version will be available on Dec. 10, as mentioned in the announcement.