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again with this!
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The devil is very crafty like that, the minute he sees you fighting, fasting and praying against a particular sin he will leave that sin alone completely (for the time being, so that you don't win a crown for your struggle) and attack you from another point. If u have not TRULY repented and felt remorseful for that sin, then after a while the devil will return and attack u with it. Try to block and stop any bad thought as soon as it is initiated (cut it off with the name of Jesus Christ, or a quick prayer, or distracting your self with something spiritual). Cut it off before the thought gets stronger and stronger.
Now repentance (through prayer & confession) would be the best way to go, ask for God's Grace to support you and never leave you.
"Be courageous in God, and do not get desperate… Do not get desperate however powerful the wars of the devil are. Do not get desperate no matter how many times you fall and forget the commandments and fail in your practices. ...Say to yourself, “...Even If I fall a hundred times on the way, I shall rise and proceed on my way… I shall never accept despair because it is from the devil.”
Diabolic Wars (by H.H. Pope Shenouda lll)
Remember me in your prayers
I commend you on being honest, it takes guts to state a weakness you have, well done. As for battling the sin, I suggest that you try your very best that you stay occupied. It sounds generic, but trust me it works. I'll pm you, just give me a few days as I'm in cairo and the fact that you are honest proves you are serious about your spiritual life.
Pray for me,
Coptic youth.
[quote author=coptic youth link=topic=10390.msg126459#msg126459 date=1294315460]
Dear brother,
It sounds generic, but trust me it works. I'll pm you, just give me a few days as I'm in cairo and the fact that you are honest proves you are serious about your spiritual life.
cairo, eh...i wonder where
please remember me in ur prayers
How about you just stop masturbating? It's not that hard to stop, like I know what masturbation is but I don't do it, ever, why? Because I know it's wrong, its ungodly, it's horrible, it's disgusting, it's shelfish, and it's just plain wrong. Learn to respect the sexual organs God gave us to reproduce with which is selfless. Go to your Father of Confession and pray, and make sure you put your computer in the kitchen or beside the TV so you have someone looking at you all the time so you don't watch Pornography (which causes a lot of people to masturbate) and you don't masturbate. It's that simple, also destroy your cellular phone (it's a useless piece of trash worth nothing). Go to your Father of Confession and cry to him, repent, and may God forgive you your sins. We have all sinned, but you have to learn to control yourself, control your limbic system, for God's sake please just stop masturbating, you'll have a better life. Control that limbic system, don't let the devil and your sick, sick desires control your life. Only You control your life and you will follow God's plan to you which you should progress and finding out with every prayer and reading of the Bible. Don't let El Shitaan trick you, don't! Whatever you do, even if you have to tape your arms to a chair, don't give in to the Devil! Go to your Fr. of Confession and simply don't do it again, and if you need any help, Chat with me if you have the urge, PM me with your MSN or something and I'll be happy to talk you out of it.
God Be with you and help you with this dreaded sin.
Abanoub
Hey! Look who decided to come back after all!
Limbic system... I <3 AP Psych lol
Anyways, responding to the subject, like Abanoub said you are in control of your own body and no one else is. You ibviously know it is wrong and that it is the work of the devil causing you to do this otherwise you would be posting on here asking for help. So, when the devil tries talking you into doing it, just remind yourself THE DEVIL DON'T GOT NUTTIN ON YOU. You tell that devil "If you can move me, then DO IT, but I"M NOT MOVING A SINGLE THING. While i was giving this advice on the same exact problem I was told to get into a matania and say that, but i thought it sounded kinda cheesy :/ but if you want to then go ahead! The point is, the devil can only give you thoughts, but YOU have the power to control your physical body. If the devil is trying to move you to sin, you tell him, "I'm not moving, but if you can move me, then go ahead" It also serves as a reminder of how weak the devil really is when you have God on your side, because as I stated before, THAT BOY CAN'T DO NUTTIN.
Hope I helped,
Pray for me,
Chris
With all due respect, being harsh on the person won't stop them from sinning. The guilt thing only works when we listen to the Holy Spirit-through the word of God, through our fathers of confession, through others filled with the Holy Spirit.
The most we can do is advice others to speak with their FOC's, recommend techniques that worked with us (which you can't do since you've never suffered under this sin), and pray for them. Only God alone can help one overcome evil.
Please be compassionate as our Father in Heaven is.
Abanoub,
With all due respect, being harsh on the person won't stop them from sinning. The guilt thing only works when we listen to the Holy Spirit-through the word of God, through our fathers of confession, through others filled with the Holy Spirit.
The most we can do is advice others to speak with their FOC's, recommend techniques that worked with us (which you can't do since you've never suffered under this sin), and pray for them. Only God alone can help one overcome evil.
Please be compassionate as our Father in Heaven is.
I agree, again, with all due respect, you're post is a little too aggressive... if I were DC it would have made me cry! :'(
I came back to see how this community will fair. To be honest, this forum just seems like it unites Copts living in areas without a full Coptic community or church system as well as Coptic Converts from other religions. I want to see how people think.
I came back to see how this community will fair. To be honest, this forum just seems like it unites Copts living in areas without a full Coptic community or church system as well as Coptic Converts from other religions. I want to see how people think.
... or because you couldn't resist us!
But this website is not just for converts and those who live in areas that have sparse Coptic population, but rather it is a tool for all of us Copts to unite and have fellowship with eachother, I mean, look at Fr. Peter, he is an abouna and he uses this website!
but I just don't like that sin at all,
So what ? i don't think that anyone here likes it, even the OP doesn't like it, obviously !
[quote author=Abanoub. link=topic=10390.msg126802#msg126802 date=1294707576]
I can control myself and to be honest I like girls and they look pretty and they are smart, and I talk to them a lot but I don't get any sexual desire or aroused from that.
hmm, interesting !
[quote author=Abanoub. link=topic=10390.msg126802#msg126802 date=1294707576]
it's not as easy as it seems and it takes time
That's true, but you don't really seem to appreciate how difficult it is to get rid of that sin.
[quote author=Abanoub. link=topic=10390.msg126802#msg126802 date=1294707576]
wait until you grow more mature and old, I am your same age but I think I am slightly more mature, I don't masturbate and don't have sexual desires because I can control them.
Congratulations for not being interested in masturbation, this is a real blessing that you have to appreciate. I am not sure, however, if I should congratulate you for not having any sexual desires at all ! Anyway, Being more mature and older doesn't necessarily mean that getting rid of masturbation will be an easy job. You will be surprised when you know the age range of people who do masturbate.
[quote author=Abanoub. link=topic=10390.msg126802#msg126802 date=1294707576]
but I just don't like that sin at all,
So what ? i don't think that anyone here likes it, even the OP doesn't like it, obviously !
[quote author=Abanoub. link=topic=10390.msg126802#msg126802 date=1294707576]
I can control myself and to be honest I like girls and they look pretty and they are smart, and I talk to them a lot but I don't get any sexual desire or aroused from that.
hmm, interesting !
[quote author=Abanoub. link=topic=10390.msg126802#msg126802 date=1294707576]
it's not as easy as it seems and it takes time
That's true, but you don't really seem to appreciate how difficult it is to get rid of that sin.
[quote author=Abanoub. link=topic=10390.msg126802#msg126802 date=1294707576]
wait until you grow more mature and old, I am your same age but I think I am slightly more mature, I don't masturbate and don't have sexual desires because I can control them.
Congratulations for not being interested in masturbation, this is a real blessing that you have to appreciate. I am not sure, however, if I should congratulate you for not having any sexual desires at all ! Anyway, Being more mature and older doesn't necessarily mean that getting rid of masturbation will be an easy job. You will be surprised when you know the age range of people who do masturbate.
Too be honest I do have sexual desires because it's Human, it's the way things are, but I don't act upon them. You have to learn to control them, sure everyone has desires, but we know fulfilling these desires now or even fulfilling them at all is wrong so we either wait or don't do them, again this has to be set by God's plan, read the Bible and pray.
And sorry guys, I am still young and my bones are soft.
Some people do believe it is good to never masturbate. Other people believe it is healthy to masturbate, even after marriage! Remember, beloved, if our heart condemn us not...remember, not to condemn ourselves for normal human feelings and behavior and to certainly not lay some heavy guilt trip on someone for being NORMAL. Gee whiz, no wonder so many people end up with messed up sexual identities and weird fetishes and gross things like that. They push down normal desire and response and it can get twisted into something else because of the shame they are made to feel. THAT is a far greater sin if you ask me.
Remember, we have an advocate with the father. Let God be your guide and judge. Search the Scriptures to see what God says about any of this. You may be surprised.
I'm confused by your comments. There are no Orthodox Priests, Bishops, Church Fathers, or any other Orthodox person of authority that hold this opinion to my knowledge.
Satan uses our biological desires to make us think we MUST satisfy them by any means necessary. This is a LIE, our biological desires should always be under our command, we should not give into them, rather we should have power over them. The closer you are to God, the less you feel you need to "satisfy" your biological desires, God give you power over your life, and over your own bodies desires, that you may not give into the lusts of the world, but keep the gifts of God Holy, and use them according to how God intended them to be used, and not how satan who tries to defile the work of God.
My question is, "Who said it was a sin?" It is normal human behavior. Sexual desire is normal. Young men (and some young women) have particularly strong sexual drives; young men have nocturnal emissions as evidence that it has nothing to do with the thoughts and a lot to do with the testosterone in the blood. Healthy outlets for all that energy often include sports, but there is still a sexual drive. Many, many Christian pastors, teachers, psychologists, Biblical experts, etc do NOT condemn masturbation in the least; however, it is our thought life that can be the sinful place. The desire is not sinful--God gave it to us. There is healthy sexual love and there is lustful sexual behavior. We can even engage in those things in our thought life, as you all must know.
Some people do believe it is good to never masturbate. Other people believe it is healthy to masturbate, even after marriage! Remember, beloved, if our heart condemn us not...remember, not to condemn ourselves for normal human feelings and behavior and to certainly not lay some heavy guilt trip on someone for being NORMAL. Gee whiz, no wonder so many people end up with messed up sexual identities and weird fetishes and gross things like that. They push down normal desire and response and it can get twisted into something else because of the shame they are made to feel. THAT is a far greater sin if you ask me.
Remember, we have an advocate with the father. Let God be your guide and judge. Search the Scriptures to see what God says about any of this. You may be surprised.
Whoa! This is not true! and definitely not the Orthodox view! We try to convince ourselves and rationalize in any way possible that it is not a sin, but in your heart, do you have any doubt as to whether it is a sin or not??! This is a very difficult struggle, but you must fight and rise up even if you continually fall. Please listen to this sermon as it makes everything much clearer:
http://www.stmaryscopticorthodox.ca/content/sermons/frathanasius/spirituality/3chastity.mp3
Here are some practical tips if you really want to stop:
1. Avoid TV / modern entertainment - So much on TV is geared to arousing this emotion. It incites desires for unrealistic portrayals of women and love. When I went to college and didn't have a TV - it was much easier to fight this sin.
2. Write a letter to yourself to be read right before you want to sin.
3. Call a friend to distract you while you are struggling with the temptation
4. Keep yourself constantly busy. Start new hobbies / projects / services. An idle mind is the devil's playing ground.
5. Read the agpeya IMMEDIATELY after you fall and pray to God to help you
6. As much as you try to fight, it is all on God. Only He can save you from this war (listen to that sermon). Remember Him and show Him you rely on Him and He will show you His amazing love.
So DimyanCoptic. If you are really Coptic, don't masturbate, finito! We're done! It's a sin, and we know it, do what everyone here suggested you do, and you will be a well raised man ready for monasticism or whatever God's plan is for you.
May God Guide you and help you win the War against El Shitan!
"As Christians what are our beliefs on masturbation?"
"Masturbation is a sin. It breeds lust and selfishness, which takes one further from God. "But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren (James 1:14-16). The urge to masturbate needs controlling, there is no reason to pursue or gratify it. It is definitely not beneficial for one's spiritual life. "Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you" (James 4:7)."
My question is, "Who said it was a sin?" It is normal human behavior. Sexual desire is normal. Young men (and some young women) have particularly strong sexual drives; young men have nocturnal emissions as evidence that it has nothing to do with the thoughts and a lot to do with the testosterone in the blood. Healthy outlets for all that energy often include sports, but there is still a sexual drive. Many, many Christian pastors, teachers, psychologists, Biblical experts, etc do NOT condemn masturbation in the least; however, it is our thought life that can be the sinful place. The desire is not sinful--God gave it to us. There is healthy sexual love and there is lustful sexual behavior. We can even engage in those things in our thought life, as you all must know.
Some people do believe it is good to never masturbate. Other people believe it is healthy to masturbate, even after marriage! Remember, beloved, if our heart condemn us not...remember, not to condemn ourselves for normal human feelings and behavior and to certainly not lay some heavy guilt trip on someone for being NORMAL. Gee whiz, no wonder so many people end up with messed up sexual identities and weird fetishes and gross things like that. They push down normal desire and response and it can get twisted into something else because of the shame they are made to feel. THAT is a far greater sin if you ask me.
Remember, we have an advocate with the father. Let God be your guide and judge. Search the Scriptures to see what God says about any of this. You may be surprised.
uhh whut?? ???
but i realised that as it's 99.9 percent of the time associated with bad thoughts, then it makes sense to consider it sin.
certainly the early church orthodox fathers say it is sin.
so basically it's a sin.
Thanks a lot for the advice, links, and words of wisdom guys :)
it is a sin, by the way ;)
Anytime :)
I feel you bro, I'm going through the same thing :/
[quote author=DimyanCoptic link=topic=10390.msg127332#msg127332 date=1295394144]
Thanks a lot for the advice, links, and words of wisdom guys :)
it is a sin, by the way ;)
Anytime :)
I feel you bro, I'm going through the same thing :/
Make sure you don't like it, then you won't do it.
enough said
may God have mercy on us all!