again with this!

edited December 1969 in Personal Issues
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  • http://tasbeha.org/content/community/index.php/topic,10274.0.html

    The devil is very crafty like that, the minute he sees you fighting, fasting and praying against a particular sin he will leave that sin alone completely (for the time being, so that you don't win a crown for your struggle) and attack you from another point. If u have not TRULY repented and felt remorseful for that sin, then after a while the devil will return and attack u with it. Try to block and stop any bad thought as soon as it is initiated (cut it off with the name of Jesus Christ, or a quick prayer, or distracting your self with something spiritual). Cut it off before the thought gets stronger and stronger.

    Now repentance (through prayer & confession) would be the best way to go, ask for God's Grace to support you and never leave you. 

    "Be courageous in God, and do not get desperate… Do not get desperate however powerful the wars of the devil are. Do not get desperate no matter how many times you fall and forget the commandments and fail in your practices. ...Say to yourself, “...Even If I fall a hundred times on the way, I shall rise and proceed on my way… I shall never accept despair because it is from the devil.”
    Diabolic Wars (by H.H. Pope Shenouda lll)


    Remember me in your prayers
  • Dear brother,
    I commend you on being honest, it takes guts to state a weakness you have, well done. As for battling the sin, I suggest that you try your very best that you stay occupied. It sounds generic, but trust me it works. I'll pm you, just give me a few days as I'm in cairo and the fact that you are honest proves you are serious about your spiritual life.

    Pray for me,


    Coptic youth.
  • Just don't get the mentality that you fell into the sin again, and decide to do it again since you can't go any lower. the fact that you do it again means youre sinking lower. every sin is a tragedy, but the ultimate tragedy is failing to repent from sin. God already knows you sinned, what He'll ask from you is why you didn't repent... think of it more as a relapse, and a one-time occurrence...

    [quote author=coptic youth link=topic=10390.msg126459#msg126459 date=1294315460]
    Dear brother,
    It sounds generic, but trust me it works. I'll pm you, just give me a few days as I'm in cairo and the fact that you are honest proves you are serious about your spiritual life.

    cairo, eh...i wonder where
  • i just talked with my FOC and he told me some stuff like dont stay home by ur self that much,keep company with ur friends, keep urself busy and he said in this situations el gary how el gd3ana which means its better to run and avoid it.

      please remember me in ur prayers 
  • [quote author=Abanoub. link=topic=10390.msg126726#msg126726 date=1294619286]
    How about you just stop masturbating? It's not that hard to stop, like I know what masturbation is but I don't do it, ever, why? Because I know it's wrong, its ungodly, it's horrible, it's disgusting, it's shelfish, and it's just plain wrong. Learn to respect the sexual organs God gave us to reproduce with which is selfless. Go to your Father of Confession and pray, and make sure you put your computer in the kitchen or beside the TV so you have someone looking at you all the time so you don't watch Pornography (which causes a lot of people to masturbate) and you don't masturbate. It's that simple, also destroy your cellular phone (it's a useless piece of trash worth nothing). Go to your Father of Confession and cry to him, repent, and may God forgive you your sins. We have all sinned, but you have to learn to control yourself, control your limbic system, for God's sake please just stop masturbating, you'll have a better life. Control that limbic system, don't let the devil and your sick, sick desires control your life. Only You control your life and you will follow God's plan to you which you should progress and finding out with every prayer and reading of the Bible. Don't let El Shitaan trick you, don't! Whatever you do, even if you have to tape your arms to a chair, don't give in to the Devil! Go to your Fr. of Confession and simply don't do it again, and if you need any help, Chat with me if you have the urge, PM me with your MSN or something and I'll be happy to talk you out of it.

    God Be with you and help you with this dreaded sin.

    Abanoub


    Hey! Look who decided to come back after all!

    Limbic system... I <3 AP Psych lol

    Anyways, responding to the subject, like Abanoub said you are in control of your own body and no one else is. You ibviously know it is wrong and that it is the work of the devil causing you to do this otherwise you would be posting on here asking for help. So, when the devil tries talking you into doing it, just remind yourself THE DEVIL DON'T GOT NUTTIN ON YOU. You tell that devil "If you can move me, then DO IT, but I"M NOT MOVING A SINGLE THING. While i was giving this advice on the same exact problem I was told to get into a matania and say that, but i thought it sounded kinda cheesy :/ but if you want to then go ahead! The point is, the devil can only give you thoughts, but YOU have the power to control your physical body. If the devil is trying to move you to sin, you tell him, "I'm not moving, but if you can move me, then go ahead" It also serves as a reminder of how weak the devil really is when you have God on your side, because as I stated before, THAT BOY CAN'T DO NUTTIN.

    Hope I helped,
    Pray for me,

    Chris
  • Abanoub,

    With all due respect, being harsh on the person won't stop them from sinning. The guilt thing only works when we listen to the Holy Spirit-through the word of God, through our fathers of confession, through others filled with the Holy Spirit.

    The most we can do is advice others to speak with their FOC's, recommend techniques that worked with us (which you can't do since you've never suffered under this sin), and pray for them. Only God alone can help one overcome evil.

    Please be compassionate as our Father in Heaven is.
  • [quote author=TITL link=topic=10390.msg126798#msg126798 date=1294701064]
    Abanoub,

    With all due respect, being harsh on the person won't stop them from sinning. The guilt thing only works when we listen to the Holy Spirit-through the word of God, through our fathers of confession, through others filled with the Holy Spirit.

    The most we can do is advice others to speak with their FOC's, recommend techniques that worked with us (which you can't do since you've never suffered under this sin), and pray for them. Only God alone can help one overcome evil.

    Please be compassionate as our Father in Heaven is.


    I agree, again, with all due respect, you're post is a little too aggressive... if I were DC it would have made me cry! :'(
  • I am very sorry for my harsh reply, truly I am, I will be more compassionate, but I just don't like that sin at all, I can control myself and to be honest I like girls and they look pretty and they are smart, and I talk to them a lot but I don't get any sexual desire or aroused from that. You have to learn to take over your body, and simply not masturbate, it's not as easy as it seems and it takes time but you seem to have it covered since you haven't been doing it for months. Just forget about it, I promise you if God's plan for you is that you will become a civilized and well-being young man in the future, you could get married and then fulfill your sexual desires according to God's will (as well as fulfilling the desires of your wife), and get Children, you will be happy for staying pure and not masturbating. Sexual intercourse is a gift from God that is the most selfless action if used properly. Masturbating is shameful and selfish, wait until you grow more mature and old, I am your same age but I think I am slightly more mature, I don't masturbate and don't have sexual desires because I can control  them.


    I came back to see how this community will fair. To be honest, this forum just seems like it unites Copts living in areas without a full Coptic community or church system as well as Coptic Converts from other religions. I want to see how people think.
  • [quote author=Abanoub. link=topic=10390.msg126802#msg126802 date=1294707576]
    I came back to see how this community will fair. To be honest, this forum just seems like it unites Copts living in areas without a full Coptic community or church system as well as Coptic Converts from other religions. I want to see how people think.


    ... or because you couldn't resist us!

    But this website is not just for converts and those who live in areas that have sparse Coptic population, but rather it is a tool for all of us Copts to unite and have fellowship with eachother, I mean, look at Fr. Peter, he is an abouna and he uses this website!
  • (Correct me if I am wrong) My brother/sister I know how you feel, because I am also struggling with this destructive sin! You feel loss of hope, dirty, lonely, sad, scared that you have lost all communication with Christ, and angry at yourself.  PLEASE MY BROTHER OR SISTER IN CHRIST do not hesitate to return to the Lord because every second you wait will be a second the devil has to put your soul to sleep on the bed of sin. It will get bad... even worse if this happens to the point where one only regrets not feeling remorse or unrepentant for the sin they have committed. And also when one commits sin there is a the spiral effect where it is one sin after another, and the situation seems hopeless. As if you are stuck in a dark valley being torn apart by the enemy. A great example is Saint King David because after the spiral of sins he committed he wasn't aware of them until the prophet Nathan came to him and told him a parable of the rich man who took everything from the poor man, David immediately repented and wrote extremely beautiful psalms that really relate to our souls and their repentance and thirst for God. Other than King David one of my favorite saints is Moses the strong. He also faced this difficult addiction and much more afflictions, and he repented many times but couldn't get passed the devil's arrows. Until "St. Isidore taught St. Moses, 'Only slowly do the rays of the sun drive away the night and usher in a new day, and thus, only slowly does one become a perfect contemplative.'" Therefore because saint Moses perseverance, repentants and pray did he not only over come the devil, but over came his sins, and he became a teacher unto us all. May his blessings and prayers be with us. O Lord, be merciful unto us and teach us to repent and come close to you as you have taught saint Moses how to repent. Please pray for me. God bless you.
  • [quote author=Abanoub. link=topic=10390.msg126802#msg126802 date=1294707576]
    but I just don't like that sin at all,


    So what ? i don't think that anyone here likes it, even the OP doesn't like it, obviously !


    [quote author=Abanoub. link=topic=10390.msg126802#msg126802 date=1294707576]
    I can control myself and to be honest I like girls and they look pretty and they are smart, and I talk to them a lot but I don't get any sexual desire or aroused from that.


    hmm, interesting !


    [quote author=Abanoub. link=topic=10390.msg126802#msg126802 date=1294707576]
    it's not as easy as it seems and it takes time


    That's true, but you don't really seem to appreciate how difficult it is to get rid of that sin.



    [quote author=Abanoub. link=topic=10390.msg126802#msg126802 date=1294707576]
    wait until you grow more mature and old, I am your same age but I think I am slightly more mature, I don't masturbate and don't have sexual desires because I can control  them.


    Congratulations for not being interested in masturbation, this is a real blessing that you have to appreciate. I am not sure, however, if I should congratulate you for not having any sexual desires at all ! Anyway, Being more mature and older doesn't necessarily mean that getting rid of masturbation will be an easy job. You will be surprised when you know the age range of people who do masturbate.
  • [quote author=Godhelpme2011 link=topic=10390.msg126819#msg126819 date=1294740629]
    [quote author=Abanoub. link=topic=10390.msg126802#msg126802 date=1294707576]
    but I just don't like that sin at all,


    So what ? i don't think that anyone here likes it, even the OP doesn't like it, obviously !


    [quote author=Abanoub. link=topic=10390.msg126802#msg126802 date=1294707576]
    I can control myself and to be honest I like girls and they look pretty and they are smart, and I talk to them a lot but I don't get any sexual desire or aroused from that.


    hmm, interesting !


    [quote author=Abanoub. link=topic=10390.msg126802#msg126802 date=1294707576]
    it's not as easy as it seems and it takes time


    That's true, but you don't really seem to appreciate how difficult it is to get rid of that sin.



    [quote author=Abanoub. link=topic=10390.msg126802#msg126802 date=1294707576]
    wait until you grow more mature and old, I am your same age but I think I am slightly more mature, I don't masturbate and don't have sexual desires because I can control  them.


    Congratulations for not being interested in masturbation, this is a real blessing that you have to appreciate. I am not sure, however, if I should congratulate you for not having any sexual desires at all ! Anyway, Being more mature and older doesn't necessarily mean that getting rid of masturbation will be an easy job. You will be surprised when you know the age range of people who do masturbate.



    Too be honest I do have sexual desires because it's Human, it's the way things are, but I don't act upon them. You have to learn to control them, sure everyone has desires, but we know fulfilling these desires now or even fulfilling them at all is wrong so we either wait or don't do them, again this has to be set by God's plan, read the Bible and pray.

    And sorry guys, I am still young and my bones are soft.
  • My question is, "Who said it was a sin?"  It is normal human behavior.  Sexual desire is normal.  Young men (and some young women) have particularly strong sexual drives; young men have nocturnal emissions as evidence that it has nothing to do with the thoughts and a lot to do with the testosterone in the blood.  Healthy outlets for all that energy often include sports, but there is still a sexual drive.  Many, many Christian pastors, teachers, psychologists, Biblical experts, etc do NOT condemn masturbation in the least; however, it is our thought life that can be the sinful place.  The desire is not sinful--God gave it to us.  There is healthy sexual love and there is lustful sexual behavior.  We can even engage in those things in our thought life, as you all must know. 

    Some people do believe it is good to never masturbate.  Other people believe it is healthy to masturbate, even after marriage!  Remember, beloved, if our heart condemn us not...remember, not to condemn ourselves for normal human feelings and behavior and to certainly not lay some heavy guilt trip on someone for being NORMAL.  Gee whiz, no wonder so many people end up with messed up sexual identities and weird fetishes and gross things like that.  They push down normal desire and response and it can get twisted into something else because of the shame they are made to feel.  THAT is a far greater sin if you ask me. 

    Remember, we have an advocate with the father.  Let God be your guide and judge.  Search the Scriptures to see what God says about any of this.  You may be surprised.
  • Dimyan, alot of guys struggle with this. I think you have to realize that you are fighting against this sin so much you are neglecting your spiritual life. Or it has taken over your spiritual life. Work on prayer, hymns, reading the bible etc and you will see that it slowly fades away.
  • Whoah! Of course Masturbation is a sin! Masturbation is the closest thing to sex for many people and it's completely selfish. Of course it's a sin! It's better to be pure.
  • Dearest to Christ ZanAmrikai,

    I'm confused by your comments. There are no Orthodox Priests, Bishops, Church Fathers, or any other Orthodox person of authority that hold this opinion to my knowledge.
  • Abanoub. Chill. Ioannes never said it wasn't a sin.
  • thanks TITL, what I am saying is that this sort of temptation becomes like a drug. There is actual scientific proof that shows just how addictive it is and the chemicals released in the brain that make it so addictive. What I suggest is not concentrating all your efforts on fighting this one sin but just practicing your spiritual life. Make routines for your prayer, reading the bible, etc. When you do this all of your sins will fade, or less frequent anyways. Sexual temptations are probably the worst and most difficult to overcome, DC I am sure you can overcome through Christ.
  • If Jesus went as far as to say "whoever LOOKS at a woman and lusts after her has committed adultery in his heart", how much worse is it to actually masturbate. It is a sin, I don't care who says its not. The sexual desires are normal, but when they lead to thoughts, the sin is committed. If I spend all day thinking about girls in a sexual manner I have committed adultery in my heart. Sex is ONLY for a man and woman who are married. It is the gift to the MARRIED couple, those who have been joined by God. If you can control your thoughts, and meditate on the word of the Lord, you will lose the desire to masturbate. This is not to say your sexual drive will shut down, but it will be calm and under your control.

    Satan uses our biological desires to make us think we MUST satisfy them by any means necessary. This is a LIE, our biological desires should always be under our command, we should not give into them, rather we should have power over them. The closer you are to God, the less you feel you need to "satisfy" your biological desires, God give you power over your life, and over your own bodies desires, that you may not give into the lusts of the world, but keep the gifts of God Holy, and use them according to how God intended them to be used, and not how satan who tries to defile the work of God.
  • [quote author=ZanAmrikai link=topic=10390.msg126923#msg126923 date=1294898075]
    My question is, "Who said it was a sin?"  It is normal human behavior.  Sexual desire is normal.  Young men (and some young women) have particularly strong sexual drives; young men have nocturnal emissions as evidence that it has nothing to do with the thoughts and a lot to do with the testosterone in the blood.  Healthy outlets for all that energy often include sports, but there is still a sexual drive.  Many, many Christian pastors, teachers, psychologists, Biblical experts, etc do NOT condemn masturbation in the least; however, it is our thought life that can be the sinful place.  The desire is not sinful--God gave it to us.  There is healthy sexual love and there is lustful sexual behavior.  We can even engage in those things in our thought life, as you all must know.  

    Some people do believe it is good to never masturbate.  Other people believe it is healthy to masturbate, even after marriage!   Remember, beloved, if our heart condemn us not...remember, not to condemn ourselves for normal human feelings and behavior and to certainly not lay some heavy guilt trip on someone for being NORMAL.   Gee whiz, no wonder so many people end up with messed up sexual identities and weird fetishes and gross things like that.  They push down normal desire and response and it can get twisted into something else because of the shame they are made to feel.  THAT is a far greater sin if you ask me.  

    Remember, we have an advocate with the father.  Let God be your guide and judge.  Search the Scriptures to see what God says about any of this.  You may be surprised.


    Whoa! This is not true! and definitely not the Orthodox view! We try to convince ourselves and rationalize in any way possible that it is not a sin, but in your heart, do you have any doubt as to whether it is a sin or not??! This is a very difficult struggle, but you must fight and rise up even if you continually fall. Please listen to this sermon as it makes everything much clearer:
    http://www.stmaryscopticorthodox.ca/content/sermons/frathanasius/spirituality/3chastity.mp3

    Here are some practical tips if you really want to stop:
    1. Avoid TV / modern entertainment - So much on TV is geared to arousing this emotion. It incites desires for unrealistic portrayals of women and love. When I went to college and didn't have a TV - it was much easier to fight this sin.
    2. Write a letter to yourself to be read right before you want to sin.
    3. Call a friend to distract you while you are struggling with the temptation
    4. Keep yourself constantly busy. Start new hobbies / projects / services. An idle mind is the devil's playing ground.
    5. Read the agpeya IMMEDIATELY after you fall and pray to God to help you
    6. As much as you try to fight, it is all on God. Only He can save you from this war (listen to that sermon). Remember Him and show Him you rely on Him and He will show you His amazing love.
  • Yes thank you for those who support that Masturbation is a sin. But is it only a man problem or woman problem? I'm assuming women have more control over this, but what I've heard in school the lately is disgusting.

    So DimyanCoptic. If you are really Coptic, don't masturbate, finito! We're done! It's a sin, and we know it, do what everyone here suggested you do, and you will be a well raised man ready for monasticism or whatever God's plan is for you.

    May God Guide you and help you win the War against El Shitan!
  • Before some of you get confused and continue to fall into sin as if the vile act were normal, HG Bishop Youssef gives a clear, unambiguous answer:

    "As Christians what are our beliefs on masturbation?"

    "Masturbation is a sin. It breeds lust and selfishness, which takes one further from God. "But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren (James 1:14-16). The urge to masturbate needs controlling, there is no reason to pursue or gratify it. It is definitely not beneficial for one's spiritual life. "Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you" (James 4:7)."
  • [quote author=ZanAmrikai link=topic=10390.msg126923#msg126923 date=1294898075]
    My question is, "Who said it was a sin?"  It is normal human behavior.  Sexual desire is normal.  Young men (and some young women) have particularly strong sexual drives; young men have nocturnal emissions as evidence that it has nothing to do with the thoughts and a lot to do with the testosterone in the blood.  Healthy outlets for all that energy often include sports, but there is still a sexual drive.  Many, many Christian pastors, teachers, psychologists, Biblical experts, etc do NOT condemn masturbation in the least; however, it is our thought life that can be the sinful place.  The desire is not sinful--God gave it to us.  There is healthy sexual love and there is lustful sexual behavior.  We can even engage in those things in our thought life, as you all must know. 

    Some people do believe it is good to never masturbate.  Other people believe it is healthy to masturbate, even after marriage!   Remember, beloved, if our heart condemn us not...remember, not to condemn ourselves for normal human feelings and behavior and to certainly not lay some heavy guilt trip on someone for being NORMAL.   Gee whiz, no wonder so many people end up with messed up sexual identities and weird fetishes and gross things like that.  They push down normal desire and response and it can get twisted into something else because of the shame they are made to feel.  THAT is a far greater sin if you ask me. 

    Remember, we have an advocate with the father.  Let God be your guide and judge.  Search the Scriptures to see what God says about any of this.  You may be surprised.


    uhh whut??  ???
  • protestants teach it is not sin, as it's not mentioned specifically in the Bible outside of other practices, eg bad thoughts.
    but i realised that as it's 99.9 percent of the time associated with bad thoughts, then it makes sense to consider it sin.
    certainly the early church orthodox fathers say it is sin.
    so basically it's a sin.
  • I've talked to someone about your Problem DimyanCoptic and you are not alone at all, there are many people struggling with this sin, I'm just glad I'm not one of them. Do you feel good when doing it? No you don't, it feels awful to do the sin so don't do it, that's a good way of thinking about it, right?
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  • [quote author=DimyanCoptic link=topic=10390.msg127332#msg127332 date=1295394144]
    Thanks a lot for the advice, links, and words of wisdom guys :)

    it is a sin, by the way ;)


    Anytime :)

    I feel you bro, I'm going through the same thing :/
  • [quote author=AikotiEnsok link=topic=10390.msg129674#msg129674 date=1296857473]
    [quote author=DimyanCoptic link=topic=10390.msg127332#msg127332 date=1295394144]
    Thanks a lot for the advice, links, and words of wisdom guys :)

    it is a sin, by the way ;)


    Anytime :)

    I feel you bro, I'm going through the same thing :/

    Make sure you don't like it, then you won't do it.

  • "But Onan knew that the heir would not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in to his brother’s wife, that he emitted on the ground, lest he should give an heir to his brother. And the thing which he did displeased the LORD; therefore He killed him also." - Genesis 38:9,10

    enough said
    may God have mercy on us all!
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