Argument about WEED...Help?

edited December 1969 in Personal Issues
Today i was going to a birthday party with my friends. During the car ride one of them pulled out two bottles of alcohol, and i told him dont ever come into the car with that garbage ever again, and that i really was upset with him for even bringing that near me. Later in the day they asked me why i did not join them when they would party, drink, smoke, etc.... they basically called me a bad friend for 'ditching' them for other church friends of mine. I basically told them that i never want myself to be associated with this nonsense and that i really could not stand the fact that they did this stuff. Then i started an argument about how all of these pleasures are non-beneficial, and that from my perspective they are useless......Long story short......I lost the argument because i could not argue the fact that doctors have done many studies on weed/marijuana and supported the fact that it is not harmful to health. How do i argue this point to people with no religious background, and no cares of their wrong doings. All i could say was "i will find you an argument when i have one." How is it possible to argue to them that weed does change them, and that it is a bad thing to do...they dont understand how weed is bad.



  • I had alot of friends that smoked weed, in fact growing up all of my close friends smoked weed and drank, and I didnt. I did try it and was not a fan. There really is no argument even if you present them with solid scientific evidence, for which there is quite a bit, they want to smoke it and therefore will only see the supposed 'good' in smoking it. There are people you can argue with and people you cant, most people you cant because they dont care about the truth only pleasing themselves. I promise you that no matter what evidence you bring forth in support of your side, they wont believe a word, or they wont care.

    For instance Aspartame and MSG are in virtually everything we consume. They are both proven excitotoxins that have countless negative effects on human health, do you think anyone cares? Tell that to someone, show them that their diet drinks contain poison, actually Aspartame can cause weight gain, and they still wont care. My advice, forget them.
  • haha this is actually a funny one, it's like God is calling me any way He can...
    I actually have become quite an avid weed smoker over the past few months, and saw nothing wrong with it. You can never judge weed until you try it no outsider will ever try to convince a weed smoke of anything if they themselves have not tried weed, because quite simply they just don't know. I mean all it did was make me hungry,happy, detrimental can that possible be? haha but then i began to carry this type of care free attitude and began to slip a little in school,and without the weed i felt a bit overwhelmed it was i guess a way for me to relax. One weekend i decided to go to Abouna and confess and i talked to him and he gave me some very wise advice. The devils number one tool to bring down man is the mind. why do you thing possessed people do crazy things? things never imaginable? things that a clear mind would not even think about doing...This is because the devil takes control of their mind, without your mind you are nothing. Why do you think in Orthodoxy we depend on our reasoning rather then our emotions so much? emotion comes an go but your reason will always be there, and direct you the right way not matter where your emotions may point. So when you smoke/drink you make your mind weak and easy for the devil to enter and then he can work his magic hunger can lead to gluttony which can easily lead to lust, sleep can turn into sloth, and the happiness is only temporal once the weed wears away so will the "happiness" and you will be back to where you were feeling like shit, excuse my language. 
    AND HERE IS WHERE THE ARGUMENT BEGINS FOR A NON-RELIGIOUS PERSON...... I'm going to be real I have done it since i have talked to my father of confession, i'm human and i'm weak. And i have realized weed tends to give a person this nonchalant attitude that everything will be okay, takes away all of your stress, but guess what? you need stress! stress keeps you on check, all weed does is dig you deeper into a hole until you can't get out. You will eventually begin to mess up in school, and eventually the rest of your life because you feel everything is fine when your high, but when the weed's out back to reality, ope there goes gravity from right up under you. Everyone i know that smokes weed has ruined their lives because of this no care attitude, people that had a chance, i mean a great chance, really smart people..... plus weed just makes you dumber you permanently kill brain cells, and surprise surprise cells of the brain are the only irreplaceable cells int he human body haha and trust me i can vouch for this one every time i smoke i feel stupid the next here is my two cents hope it helps in some way, trust me i can talk about this forever but for now i have an anatomy midterm to study for so pray for me, God bless.
  • There is not one single medical paper or research to show that there is any benefit for marijuana.  Not one.
  • where exactly did you come up with this statement? did a thorough google search tickle your fancy and give you reason to make an utterly false statement? There are medical benefits to marijuana for very sick people; pain relief, reduced nausea, increased appetite, muscle relaxation etc. An I am SURE you can find a medical paper stating the same thing if you look hard enough.... I actually had a organic chemistry profesor who sole research topic was the effect of cannabis....but that's besides the point marijuana is detrimental for the most part to the common man, not necessarily physically but absolutely mentally.
  • That is all nonsense.  I repeat:  there are no medical papers to prove any benefit of marijuana.  The FDA has not sponsored any research.  All of these false claims are from people speaking loudly in order to justify using something that is illegal and bad.

    It does not relieve pain or nausea.  It just makes you high so you don't know that you are having pain and nausea.  It does not help with any disease.  It destroys portions of the brain at a rate 10 times that of any alcohol.

    Where are all of these scientific papers?  None.  Purely, freaky little guys who smoked weed trying to get it through.
  • haha i guess ignorance can be bliss... I can tell you are the type that argues to death for what they believe is the truth, kudos. It is good you have this mentality because you probably never will try marijuana. But even if someone finds evidence to prove you wrong, you are so invested in your train of thought that you will not believe it and try to prove it wrong, so there is no point in argument, or waisting my time finding a medical journal that states the benefits of marijuana....but try telling a cancer patient going through intense chemotherapy that marijuana has no medicinal purpose when the only thing getting them through the pain is medical marijuana....
  • [quote author=cop link=topic=10015.msg122439#msg122439 date=1290203219]...but try telling a cancer patient going through intense chemotherapy that marijuana has no medicinal purpose when the only thing getting them through the pain is medical marijuana....

    True, but I think Praying and fasting would be a better pain relief lol....But yea i guess Ioannes is right because i really cant argue with someone who can see nothing wrong in what he is doing...its pointless. Ill just tell them to do what they please and ill go about my daily life....

    thanks a lot guys  ::)
  • Cop,

    Actually, I have quite a bit more background in this issue.  Marijuana has no medicinal purpose.  I know quite a bit about chemotherapy and going through chemotherapy.

    And I don't get my information from Google or WebMD.

    Marijuana will not do anything for you--no different than smoking cow manure.
  • excellent! enlighten away!
  • Cop,

    There is not one FDA study to ascribe any benefit to marijuana.

    There is not one Peer reviewed study to ascribe any benefit to marijuana.

    There is not one Pharmaceutical company study to ascribe any benefit to marijuana.

    Being high does not equal abatement from any of the symptoms that you mention.

    The comments that have been made relative to different state elections in the United States are related to people's ignorance.  People, in a majority way of voting, does not mean they are correct.  Nevada has legalized prostitution, but that does not make it correct.  If it were, then I guess, high school counsellors when they find a girl who is doing well would be obliged to guide her into thinking of a career in prostitution.  Majority voting and majority opinion, does not mean it is moral or correct or for that matter founded in scientific basis or truth.

    I can tell your medical knowledge is limited, and are going by hearsay and other people's opinion influence on you.

    I am speaking from facts.
  • [Moderated]

    THC is a cannabanoid product which mimics the effects of endocannabanoids, ok but what does that mean? well here is a little biology 101 a eukaryotic cell is surrounded by a plasma membrane, and on this plasma membrane there are a bunch of nifty receptors made up of protein that can produce chemicals effects in the cell or bring stuff in,  so there is this funny little thing called a CB1 receptor, which is a G protein coupled receptor( that just means it uses a cascade effect upon entering the cell, to produce it's effect on the cell.) CB1 receptors can be found in the cerebral cortex, basal ganglia, cerebellum and in a bunch of other nifty places, and with this basic knowledge of the physiology of THC comes the medical benefits.....

    1. THC has some analgesic activity in patients with cancer

    Noyes, R., S.F. Brunk, D.A. Avery, and A.C. Canter. 1975. The analgesic properties of A-9-tetrahydrocannabinol. Clin. Pharmacol. Ther. 18: 84-89.

    2. THC increases appetite, which can be valuable for an array of ailments..

    Beal, J.A., R. Olson, L. Laubenstein, et al. 1995. Dronabinol as a treatment for anorexia associated with weight loss in patients with AIDS. J. Pain Symptom Manage. 10: 89-97.

    3. Marijuana can relive muscle pain

    Consroe, P., R. Musty, J. Rein, W. Tillery, and R. Pertwee. 1996. The perceived effects of smoked cannabis on patients with multiple sclerosis. Eur. Neurol. 38: 44-48.

    4. THC can redue intraocular pressure in people suffering from glaucoma

    Elsohly, M.A., E. Harland, J.C. Murphy, P. Wirth, and C.W. Waller. 1985. Cannabinoids in glaucoma: a primary screening procedure. J. Clin. Pharmacol. 21: 472S-478S.
    Elsohly, M.A., E.C. Harland, D.A. Benigni, and C.W. Waller. 1984. Cannabinoids in glaucoma II: the effect of different cannabinoids on intraocular pressure of the rabbit. Curr. Eye Res. 3: 841-850.
    McLaughlin, M.A., and G.C. Chiou. 1985. A synopsis of recent developments in antiglaucoma drugs. J. Ocul. Pharmacol. 1:101-121.

    To state that there is not ONE scientific paper, or medical journal that states the benefits of marijuana is quite a bold statement haha. I am by no means advocating the use of marijuana, I know there are many negative effects, and that these negative effects may even overweigh the positives! but I am rather showing you how ignorant your statement was, with the hope that you will never again blindly state your OPINION, trying to cop it as fact...

  • Cop,
    Have some respect please.

    Forgive me if I have offended you.
  • why did you not say this to ilovestmark? didn't he just as well disrespect me, and my intelligence? I am having respect, respect for the power reason, and defending against ignorance.
  • Cop,

    Did you notice when they were done? (year)

    Did you look at these papers?  Just because the title says something does not mean their is validity in the claim.
    Every Single one that you listed is not a real study.

    If you go to the AMA, the American Marijuana Association [it is a made up name so I can make satire of the situation--in case you didn't realize it], I'm sure they will have very supporting literature. 
    BTW, That AMA is different from the other AMA.
    I did not insult you initially, and I am not going to insult you now.  Your conclusions, and your gathering of facts are both incorrect--that's all I am saying.

    If you were up on medical research, and even in the titles you presented, you will realize that the use of fudge words such as "can", "some", "can", are all to try to lend validity to flawed presentations.  It's like a politician speaking and never really saying anything.

    The statements I made relative to the United States:  FDA, Pharmaceutical Companies, randomized double/blind control, are still the same.  I'm sure something somewhere in the world may be printed--but who cares what false claims are being made in some shack somewhere in the world.  Using extracts that have been formulated and manipulated chemically are not the same thing as smoking marijuana. 

    I would suggest having a biostatistician read some of those articles with you to help you realize that they are not real studies.
  • [quote author=cop link=topic=10015.msg122436#msg122436 date=1290201040]
    where exactly did you come up with this statement? did a thorough google search tickle your fancy and give you reason to make an utterly false statement? There are medical benefits to marijuana for very sick people; pain relief, reduced nausea, increased appetite, muscle relaxation etc. An I am SURE you can find a medical paper stating the same thing if you look hard enough.... I actually had a organic chemistry profesor who sole research topic was the effect of cannabis....but that's besides the point marijuana is detrimental for the most part to the common man, not necessarily physically but absolutely mentally.

    There are also papers published on the positive effects of LSD, Ayahuasca, DMT, Ketamine, GHB, etc. Lets legalize those too.
  • After many years of legal soft drugs in the country that I live in, they did research the long term effects of weed. Psychiatrists and others have proven a link between the use of cannabis and the incidence of schizophrenia/psychosis, depression and other mental problems. It is not as innocent as many have thought here for a long time, that they are making the rules much more strict than it used to be.
  • i also have medical knowledge, ilovesaintmark is right, there are no good studies that weed is any good.

    also most people i know who smoked it went a bit psychotic.
    cop, what u said in yr 1st post is right, pls go back to that and don't feel paranoid that we are attacking u.
    we are not, we care for u.
    but if u do feel paranoid, it is probably the effects of the weed, that's what it does.
    it may take weeks to wear off completely.

    btw, i met a man last week in hospital who crashed his car after smoking weed. the car was totally destroyed.
    the guy didn't really care, he was very relaxed about it.
    also he didn't care that he could easily have killed someone. he was really chilled out.
    really, really chilled out.
    and bleeding.
  • you are right I feel so paranoid, they are all trying to get me, don't let the government find me! haha i can't help but chuckle, thank you mabsoota for your concern!

    Even with your vast array of medical knowledge, to so boldly state that there are "NO good studies of the effects of marijuana" is a bit absolute don't you think? don't you remember the SAT'S usually the answer choice in the reading comprehension section that is making a definite statement is wrong...I understand that everyone is trying to prove that marijuana is evil, and I actually agree to an extent. But the fact that everyone is stating that there is NOT ONE good study on the effects of marijuana(with a  preconception that weed is "evil", whether you will admit it or not) is a bit ignorant don't you think? of all the studies in the world do you not think there is not ONE stating the benefits of marijuana use? I mean if there was not, why would MEDICAL marijuana even be available to people? again in no way am I advocating the use of marijuana, and I am aware of all of it's detrimental effects, and yes a majority of the people using it might abuse it.... But to say that there is not one good study on the benefits of marijuana use is a bit absurd, I am not asking you to agree with me because everything i say is right, but rather asking you to rationalize the thoughts you formulate it your head before blindly spewing them onto a computer screen. If you are to make a stament whether in the field of academia or in your personal life, you should probably cite your sources if you want anyone to believe that your statement in any way valid. I stated my argument, and cited my sources supporting my argument. Whether those sources were weak or not is irrelevant to the fact that I provided a study that supported the positive effects of marijuana, and yet not one person will admit it haha. Step out of the box a little people, not everything that everyone tells you is the truth. Ignorance to the unknown is very prevalent in the Coptic community, and I just wish people would reason before they speak and not let their emotion drive them to making ignorant statements regarding a topic that they feel so strongly about in hopes to convince another that what they are saying is right. After all emotion does cloud judgment. I would not even be responding to this post if a person stated that marijuana has many detrimental effects, and they outweigh all of the positives, but to state that are NOT ONE positive is a bit extremist, no need to try doctrinate people with ignorance, just make a reasonable statement supporting your argument and allow others to use their minds and formulate decisions for themselves.
  • Again I am in no way trying to offend anyone, and could care less about this argument about weed ( yes it's bad I know trust me...), just trying to open your mind's a bit....
  • Cop,

    Have you read the articles that you presented? or you just did a Google search?

    These articles do not define anything of which you are trying to prove. 

    In statistical analysis there is a parable of sorts in showing correlates and cause/effect analysis.  It goes like this:  Oral antacids cause heart attacks.  Since someone having a heart attack usually they will complain of a feeling that they are having gastritis or gastric distress.  Thereafter a large proportion that ingest over-the-counter antacids.  When questioned at the Emergency Room they will recount the use of the antacid.  If one were to do a retrospective analysis one would see a high proportion of heart attacks to be associated with antacid use.  Yet when looking at the reality and sequence of the situation, one would realize that the cause and effect are not realized since they did not follow chronologically.

    The papers you presented are not scientifice because they make assumptions and do not follow proper scientific protocol.  Just because they were printed, for whatever secondary gain, they do not constitute proper scientific protocol or reasoning. The gold standard is:  a double-blind randomized study.  There are none relative to my comments about the United States.  I do not know what is going on in shacks around the world.

    You wish to play on some technicalities in order to elevate your argument.  You do not have any real papers to back up your stance.

    I read through previous postings and your use of marijuana and I suspect your antagonistic tone is a product of the previous use or even present use.  Regardless, your life is yours to use and abuse, and there is a price that has to be paid--eventually.  However, I will not allow you to make bold, abusive, unsubstantiated remarks, fleeting comments of whim, for the younger cadets on this site to somehow accept as a viable validation of marijuana.

    I repeat:  there is no real or documented benefit of marijuana with any credible research or REAL scientific papers by the FDA, Pharmaceutical companies, or Real peer-reviewed journal.

    I would hardly label the sources you presented as bein real.  I believe there are still people that believe that the world is flat, and the moon is made of cheese.

    I will not stoop to your low level of discussion.  I have not insulted you previously, and I will not insult you now.  I will be firm in correcting your incorrectness and incorrect conclusions.
  • Ilovesaintmark: is there actual scientific proof that the moon is not made out of cheese??
  • Hos Erof,

    There is certifiable proof that the moon is not made out of cheese.  However, I am sure that you know there are people who still hold out that the moon landing was a hoax.
  • where is this certifiable proof? can you show me? or did you just think there was certifiable proof the moon was not made out of cheese because that is what you think, and what you think certainly must be right? Can you show me a scientific paper stating that the moon is not made of cheese?( and yes in that same exact context). Please cite your sources.
  • Cop,

    I believe on a simple basis that on display in several Governmental facilities among which are:  NASA (in Florida and Houston), the New York City Museum of Natural History, and the Smithsonian Institute among which have repositories of lunar rocks.  These rocks were filmed before all of mankind, archived, catalogued.  They underwent chemical analysis, and these analyses were published in real journals with real editors, with real effect towards scientific analysis free from contamination by earthly sources.  The rocks were also quarantined prior to being distributed and the such.

    I really am not going to waste my time by digging out articles from the journal Science or any of the other journals.  It is impertinent to do so relative to the topic that was initiated in this thread.

    I would not put the previous articles that you cite as being in any realm as the analysis that was carried forward for the Lunar rocks.

    Smoking marijuana has no medicinal benefit.  There is no all.  There are no real scientific papers to that effect.  Please just read your own cut and paste of these citations to realize how flimsy even the titles represent.

    There is no justification for its use.  St. Paul states very nicely:  'All things were created for me, but not all things are good for me.'

    The Tree of the Knowledge was created for Adam and Eve's benefit to behold and contemplate.  Yet, they ate from the forbidden fruit and thus the penalty is carried.  Do realize the example from our father Adam, and our mother Eve.  Metaphorically and alegorically it is a foreknowledge of St. Paul's quote.  Maybe it would be nice for you to look up that verse and share it with all of us as a better expending of your computer talent and resources.

    I wish you a good evening and I hope that you have the opportunity to enjoy the beauty of the Divine Liturgy at your local church tomorrow.  In the True Body and True Blood, one does not need scientific proof.  One relies purely on faith that His Goodness (God the Only-Begotten Son) is given for us to taste and see.  I challenge you to go tomorrow, as I will, to share in that faith and partake of the Goodness of Our Lord.
  • Cons

    Short-term Effects
    Distorted perception (sights, sounds, time, touch), problems with memory and learning, lack of proper coordination, trouble with problem-solving, increased heart rate and reduced blood pressure are some of the short-term effects of marijuana.

    Effects on the Brain
    Marijuana contains an active ingredient, delta-9 tetrahydrocannabinol or THC that acts on the cannabinoid receptors of the nerve cells and influences the activities of the cells, like pleasure, memory, thought, concentration, sensory, time perception and coordinated movement. High doses of marijuana, when consumed through food, can cause hallucinations, delusions, impaired memory and disorientation.

    Effects on the Heart
    The heart beat increases rapidly and the blood pressure drops within minutes of smoking marijuana. A person’s heart beat can increase by 20 to 50 beats per minute. A marijuana smoker is three times more at a risk of heart attack.

    Effects on the Lungs
    Burning and stinging of the mouth and throat and heavy coughing are some effects that are caused by smoking marijuana, even infrequently. Marijuana causes respiratory problems in smokers, such as daily cough and phlegm production, more frequent acute chest illness, increased risk of lung infections and obstructed airways. Marijuana smokers are three times more likely to develop head and neck cancer, as compared to non-smokers.

    Effects during Pregnancy
    Studies have found that mothers who have used marijuana during pregnancy have given birth to children who are likely to exhibit problems with neurological developments. Prenatal marijuana exposure can cause altered responses to visual stimuli, increased tremulousness, problems with sustained attention and memory and poor problem-solving skills.

    Other Health Effects
    Researches indicate that the THC found in marijuana impairs the body’s immune system from fighting diseases that result in a wide variety of health problems. It increases the risk of developing bacterial infections and tumors as well.
  • + I agree with ilovesaintmark,

    This is what the devil has been doing from the beginning; the tree of good and evil.. The only command God said was not to eat from it or touch it.. He said this for their own benefit. What did the devil do? He indirectly called God a liar, and he tried to find a so-called "good" (i.e decieved them) from that tree and and Eve saw the the fruit was, "good, pleasant and desirable" took of its fruit and ate!? The consequences of that? - are still occuring now.

    The devil is still decieving. Look around, the acceptance of homosexuality, the acceptance of abortion, the acceptance of fornication, swearing, etc.. All these are sin. All these probably started with deception from the devil. He paints a rosy coloured picture and distracts them from the real truth.

    Cop, there's nothing good about sin. All it does is get a person where the devil wants them, that is, in a pit of sin, then the devil leaves them to rot even more in their stench of sin.. the devils takes everything!

    God, on the other hand, gives generously. He loves to the point of dying for us, and is still working for our good right now. What are we doing with the salvation He has freely and willingly given to us individually?
    Basically, if a person is following the world, they are indirectly telling God that they don't care about His Blood, His precious tears, His love, or Him?????
    Would we want to be followers of God, Who is beyond the "the temporary happiness of the lusts, comforts and pleasures of this world" or are we that careless to follow the world's ways - the devil.

    Never under-estimate the strength that is within you; the Spirit of God. If we are baptised we have the strength from God to do the impossible, to overcome all evil.

    Our short earthly lives paints the picture of our eternal life. - H.G Bishop Moussa.
    It is better for you to weary yourself here on earth and attain crowns of struggle, than to have rest here, and be tired in eternity. -Pope Shenouda III, Book: Diabolic wars.
    Simple as that.

    God is clear with His commands and His Word. He clearly said "I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live; that you may love the LORD your God, that you may obey His voice, and that you may cling to Him, for He is your life and the length of your days; and that you may dwell in the land which the LORD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them." - Deut. 30:19-20

    Even if you/or the deceptiveness of the devil, thinks that smoking marijuana has positive effects, it doesn't make it the Godly thing to.

    Lastly, what do you think Jesus would do?
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