Ondos by Ibrahim Ayad

edited December 1969 in Hymns Discussion
Does anyone know where I can download Ondos by Ibrahim Ayad? That would be great thanks.

Peace of Jesus Christ be with us all.

Comments

  • well there is one recording of him with the cathedral chorus on this site which is actually the right one under the rules set by the holy synod: http://tasbeha.org/mp3/Songs/Coptic/Ibrahim_Ayad_and_Chorus/Coptic_Melodies_I.html however if your interested in the whole hymn chanted by just him you can find it here http://www.coptichymns.net/module-hymns-catview-pid-54.html but this version has the verses which the synod deleted because they are written wrong

    hope this helps

    Mina Elfar
  • [quote author=elfarfamily link=topic=8120.msg104157#msg104157 date=1245359015]
    well there is one recording of him with the cathedral chorus on this site which is actually the right one under the rules set by the holy synod: http://tasbeha.org/mp3/Songs/Coptic/Ibrahim_Ayad_and_Chorus/Coptic_Melodies_I.html however if your interested in the whole hymn chanted by just him you can find it here http://www.coptichymns.net/module-hymns-catview-pid-54.html but this version has the verses which the synod deleted because they are written wrong

    hope this helps

    Mina Elfar



    about the parts in the middle, the synod did not make a "rule" towards them. they are parts of a hymn that you can say if you have time. there is nothing wrong with those parts. the first estikhon of the 2nd parts: "[coptic]Cimwn Petroc `n`hRwma[/coptic]" = "Simon Peter on Rome"

    is NOT a big deal. i am sure at some point Saint Peter was there in Rome preaching; that doesn't make him the patriarch!!! Also as i have heard from some Catholics, the main verse they use to prove Saint Peter's papacy is the one about "the rock"
  • Yes what mina said was right because a lot of churches when they have time they say the whole thing
  • alot of churches say the extra parts...but they are written wrong. If your going to say a hymn just for the sake of saying a hymn then dont say it. The hymn isnt music its theology in text chanted to provide the meaning. The extra parts are like 3 or 4 verses which include historical errors which the synod has decided in 2001 (i think but im not sure) to be deleted from the hymn, not to shorten it for the sake of people but to provide accurate historical evidence as well as theological ideas. I personally love all the verses but its not right to chant them. The accurate way to chant ondos is to sing the first verse (ondos) followed by apkhro shenaf evol, then the verse for st. mary followed by the apostles and if you have time, the saint of the church which are normally the gospel responses for the saint.

    God Bless and pray for me

    Mina Elfar 
  • [quote author=elfarfamily link=topic=8120.msg104174#msg104174 date=1245383823]
    alot of churches say the extra parts...but they are written wrong. If your going to say a hymn just for the sake of saying a hymn then dont say it. The hymn isnt music its theology in text chanted to provide the meaning. The extra parts are like 3 or 4 verses which include historical errors which the synod has decided in 2001 (i think but im not sure) to be deleted from the hymn, not to shorten it for the sake of people but to provide accurate historical evidence as well as theological ideas. I personally love all the verses but its not right to chant them. The accurate way to chant ondos is to sing the first verse (ondos) followed by apkhro shenaf evol, then the verse for st. mary followed by the apostles and if you have time, the saint of the church which are normally the gospel responses for the saint.

    God Bless and pray for me

    Mina Elfar 


    hmmmm...i would like to know more about that synod "rule" then
  • all i know about it is that upon reviewing the hymn, "they" (im guessing the bishops that are knowledgeable about alhan like anba Raphael and anba Youanness) told and reprinted the books and the muallimeen like ibrahim and gad to record it with this update. It would be great if someone would try to get us that change.

    Mina Elfar
  • http://www.ibrahimayad.com/voice/categories.php?cat_id=60
    this link has the hymn class for Ibrahim Ayad and he mention about the middle verses.
  • Dear gergesezzat,
    I have some problem opening and listening to the file - the headphone link on the website takes me straight to the discussion thread. Please help me if you can, or send me the file on my e-mail (PM me)
    [coptic]oujai qen P[C[/coptic]
  • How do you download Ondos from the website? Also is there anyway to make it into English?
  • [quote author=Unworthy1 link=topic=8120.msg104267#msg104267 date=1245874719]
    How do you download Ondos from the website? Also is there anyway to make it into English?

    The download icon is not active !!!!!!!!!!
    and also this site is totally Arabic. sorry..
    but these are the link for it
    part 1 http://www.mediafire.com/?ndynnjymtlz
    part 2 http://www.mediafire.com/?xjjqllgz4dz
    part 3 http://www.mediafire.com/?myjmmtdu5ze
    pray for me
  • All Ibrahim Ayad says in this is that the words are written incorrectly as we know and that they need to be changed. However he stil teaches the whole hymn to preserve it, and also doesnt say that the verses shouldnt be said.  Until the words are changed and the holy Synod officially takes a step than i think we should leave everything the way it is.
  • Dear gergesezzat, thanks for the link to Ondos...this is awesome, I never knew Ibrahim Ayad put his classes online. Is there any way you can find me more classes he has? That would be a great help. God bless you.
  • Dear all,
    I am really sick of all those who say our hymns in the Coptic church are faulty and need change. Please please stop them; stop anybody saying this about any hymn in the church. We have to admit we are ignorant: we have to admit that by abandoning the Coptic language (and hence the colloquial Greek words within it) we don't understand hymns, and THAT IS IT. Please please please...
    Back to topic: yes, Ibrahim Ayad says that second verse needs changing; why? because people believe that Peter the apostle did not enter Rome; that is it was Paul, and you know what. I just found it in the Synexarium; there you go, the first bit of the daily remembrance (I don't like the word commemoration by the way) of the 5th of Abib; 12th of July:

    On this day, the two great saints Peter and Paul, were martyred . Peter was from Bethsaida, and he was a fisherman . The Lord chose him on The Second Day of His baptism after He chose Andrew his brother . He had fervent faith and strong zeal . When the Lord asked His disciples: "Who do men say that I am?" So they answered, "Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets ." . . . Simeon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God ."(Mat . 16:13-20) After he received the grace of the Holy Spirit, he went around in the world preaching of the crucified Christ, and he converted many to the faith . God wrought great and innumerable signs and wonders by his hands . He wrote two catholic Epistles to the believers .When he came to the city of Rome, he found there St . Paul the Apostle .
    [coptic]oujai qen `P[C[/coptic]
  • Exactly what I mean. There is nothing wrong with the hymn. If ppl ignore true meaning than that is their lack of wanting to know....not the Church's fault.
  • [coptic]]sep`hmot `ntotk emasw Myna[/coptic]
    Thank you very much Mina
    [coptic]oujai qen `P[C[/coptic]
  • I completely agree with Ophadece and Mina !!! and yes our church was very ignorant in letting our language go.  i wish taht we could take a step and start teaching it to its members
  • Can anyone help me download the Ondos lessons?? It's most helpfull for classes at church, but for some reason it doesnt work with my realplayer.
  • (post deleted)--> meant to post in a different topic. Too bad posts can no longer be deleted.
  • [quote author=Unworthy1 link=topic=8120.msg104291#msg104291 date=1245954271]
    Dear gergesezzat, thanks for the link to Ondos...this is awesome, I never knew Ibrahim Ayad put his classes online. Is there any way you can find me more classes he has? That would be a great help. God bless you.


    you can find more lessons on his site.
    http://www.ibrahimayad.com/
    Pray for me
  • Not sure where to post this, but I hope you (including minagir) help me...
    This is the correct translation of the third verse for both Arabic and English (note the place where the comma should be):
    وحقاً يوحنا على آسيا المدينة وحُسب على أفريقيا فيلبس، وبرثولماوس على الهند.
    Truly John on the city of Asia and was also counted on Africa Philip, and Bartholomew on India.
    [coptic]oujai qen `P[C[/coptic]
  • [quote author=ophadece link=topic=8120.msg104320#msg104320 date=1246114910]
    Not sure where to post this, but I hope you (including minagir) help me...
    This is the correct translation of the third verse for both Arabic and English (note the place where the comma should be):
    وحقاً يوحنا على آسيا المدينة وحُسب على أفريقيا فيلبس، وبرثولماوس على الهند.
    Truly John on the city of Asia and was also counted on Africa Philip, and Bartholomew on India.
    [coptic]oujai qen `P[C[/coptic]



    well, i get what you are saying. don't worry much about the english because i put it there so we can change it.

    in Nahdet el-kanayes book:
    [coptic]Oucautoc Iwannou `nte Aci`a `mpolic optenta `n`fragi`a ton vilippoc ke Bar;olomeoc `enel;wn.[/coptic]
    No commas but in the arabic they have,

    وحقاً يوحنا على آسيا المدينة وحسب على أفريقيا، فيلبس وبرثولماوس على الهند.

    m.Farag's book:
    [coptic]Oucautoc Iwannou `nte Aci`a `[email protected] optenta `n`fragi`a ton vilippoc ke Bar;olomeoc enel;wn.[/coptic]
    in the arebic, which is a little interesting because it's the only paragraph of the hymn m Farag's put that much commas (more like dots) tom separate the arabic.

    وحقاً يوحنا على آسيا المدينة. وحسب على أفريقيا. فيلبس وبرثولماوس على الهند
  • Yes Mina,
    but I think in neither of these two cases the translation was following the meaning of the hymn, rather the partitioning endorsed by the Coptic stanzas. I hope I am clear. My only objection to this is that Arabic couldn't (and wasn't meant in the first place) to be sung like Coptic, so there should have been a more appropriate division of sentences to emphasise the meaning
    [coptic]oujai qen `P[C[/coptic]
  • [quote author=ophadece link=topic=8120.msg104323#msg104323 date=1246131863]
    Yes Mina,
    but I think in neither of these two cases the translation was following the meaning of the hymn, rather the partitioning endorsed by the Coptic stanzas. I hope I am clear. My only objection to this is that Arabic couldn't (and wasn't meant in the first place) to be sung like Coptic, so there should have been a more appropriate division of sentences to emphasise the meaning
    [coptic]oujai qen `P[C[/coptic]



    well....hear this. i seen online somewhere that Philip also was crucified with Bartholomew, not specifying where. as you said, in the senixar Africa was for Saint Philip.
  • Dear all,

    i apologize for any disturbance that i might have brought or done willingly or unwillingly. Just to clarify what i meant...i never said that we shouldnt chant the hymn...on the contrary i love this hymn and i believe that we should keep saying it. However, i do believe in praying and understanding what one says rather than merely just singing. Its great that Ibrahim ayad is teaching the other verses of ondos because now we are perserving what our grandfathers have chanted and kept alive in the church for generations...but thats no excuse to chant stuff thats written historically wrong! you guys pointed out the first verse...how about the other verses? they are written wrong as well! whats the problem with admitting that a change needs to be made to those verses so that way we can chant them...in the meantime we can say ondos then apkhrow she naf evol then the ones for st. mary and the disciples! Again im your younger brother here...you guys are maullimeen...i learn from you guy...i just like to point stuff out that people tend to miss


    pray for me

    Mina Elfar
  • [quote author=elfarfamily link=topic=8120.msg104325#msg104325 date=1246137085]
    Dear all,

    i apologize for any disturbance that i might have brought or done willingly or unwillingly. Just to clarify what i meant...i never said that we shouldnt chant the hymn...on the contrary i love this hymn and i believe that we should keep saying it. However, i do believe in praying and understanding what one says rather than merely just singing. Its great that Ibrahim ayad is teaching the other verses of ondos because now we are perserving what our grandfathers have chanted and kept alive in the church for generations...but thats no excuse to chant stuff thats written historically wrong! you guys pointed out the first verse...how about the other verses? they are written wrong as well! whats the problem with admitting that a change needs to be made to those verses so that way we can chant them...in the meantime we can say ondos then apkhrow she naf evol then the ones for st. mary and the disciples! Again im your younger brother here...you guys are maullimeen...i learn from you guy...i just like to point stuff out that people tend to miss


    pray for me

    Mina Elfar


    hehe......don't worry about it. it's nice every once in a while to search about something about our hymns. it makes me search somethings and remember things and learn new things.

    btw, i also have said ondos parts for Saint Mark (maybe also for a bishop....or that might of been apitjeek evol)....ALSO, i have said it into one of the Apostles' feast during the year. not really during the fast. which i thought was fine.....
  • Dear Mina Guirguis,
    I have just checked the Synexarium, but couldn't find the reference to St. Philip earning the martyrdom crown in the same city as St. Bartholomew. It only mentions that St. Philip entered "Jerapolis" (?), probably a city in Italy, and was crucified upside down (like St. Peter), and didn't die instantly, but asked his disciples to leave him till he commended his soul on the cross. St Bartholomew on the other hand did serve for some time in Rome, and served in other parts with St. Peter (probably Asia minor, although not sure that St. Peter did serve there).
    Dear Mina Elfar,
    I see no problem with that hymn that warrants changing. Actually, I do respect your point you made earlier when saying "hymns are not music, they are words", but may I add to that and say "hymns are actually both words and music". There are studies on one of Iqbal's websites how the melismata within the hymns, as well as the vocalise contribute to the inner peace and the integrity of Christians over the ages.
    As for my personal opinion, I do believe that we can't understand the colloquial language used by authors in other hymns (not particularly [coptic]ontwc[/coptic] as I see nothing wrong linguistically). Hymns like [coptic]O Kirioc meta cou[/coptic] was debated massively, and some people are calling to remove it from the treasure. I personally believe that is sad and wrong. If we can't understand the Coptic in some hymns, or Greek for that matter, does that mean that we bash our treasure just for the sake of our ignorance? Yes, we are ignorant, since we started the first step of abandoning our Coptic language; the second step will be some hymns, and the third will be the whole the heritage. It starts with one compromise.
    Thirdly, or fourthly, or whatever: do we really call (or anyone would) for removing chapters in the Bible that are not entirely understood? do we call for removing psalms? do we call for removing mere passages? Why not then? Even interpretors and explainers struggle to understand certain parts, and many have differing (to the extent of opposing) interpretations. St. Paul actually reassured us saying that the Holy Spirit complements our misunderstanding in prayers (and of course Bible reading and Coptic hymns) with murmurs not spoken of.
    Do I hold Coptic hymns in the same league as the Bible? yes, I certainly do. These hymns that the Holy Spirit preserved over centuries and centuries and was capable of keeping the faith from one generation to the next, for those who are blind, poor, and illiterate. Yes, God said He will use the poor of the world to humble the rich.
    PS: isn't it sad that we hear in the news that one singer's fan wish to immortalise his songs that are merely not more than 40 years old, and we Copts call for banning some hymns?
    [coptic]oujai qen `P[C[/coptic]
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