[quote author=Copticsol08 link=topic=4550.msg77641#msg77641 date=1191077018] alot of interseting points but what if ur ugly or cute just have lil floses like a big nose or big ears maybe big mouth or sumthing would plastic surgry be wrong?
It would be conforming to the world, rather than being transformed according to the will of God.
[quote author=Copticsol08 link=topic=4550.msg77641#msg77641 date=1191077018] alot of interseting points but what if ur ugly or cute just have lil floses like a big nose or big ears maybe big mouth or sumthing would plastic surgry be wrong?
Plastic surgery in itself is against our Church because it goes against God's creation. God would know how he would want you to be made.
I think that there is nothing with a small bit of plastic surgery, especially if you have buck-teeth!
Ya3ni.. God said that we should not lead ouselves into temptation. Someone with buck-teeth will be made fun of all her/his life; and so to avoid temptation, it would be wise to get that removed.
If you look like: * Osama bin laden, * Ronald Reagan * Madonna * 2-Pack Shakur, * Kylie minogue * A donkey * A rabbit * or a little monkey
it would be wise to have plastic surgery before people start making fun of u.
[quote author=Severus link=topic=4550.msg77507#msg77507 date=1190771296] A sense of humor, maybe, but not in such a fashion or regarding such a serious matter/subject.
Whatever you like to think though, it's your descision.
Ya severus, methinks that you should have changed the spelling of your name to be "Severe-R-Us" instead.
[quote author=bballdude23 link=topic=4550.msg77714#msg77714 date=1191224899] [quote author=Copticsol08 link=topic=4550.msg77641#msg77641 date=1191077018] alot of interseting points but what if ur ugly or cute just have lil floses like a big nose or big ears maybe big mouth or sumthing would plastic surgry be wrong?
Plastic surgery in itself is against our Church because it goes against God's creation. God would know how he would want you to be made.
I'm going to play Devil's advocate for a minute (not that I have been anything else as of late), but I do not think that God 'creates' us (as in, our bodies). God created our original parents, Adam and Eve, and gave them the means of reproducing. Thus, it is our parents genetic make-up in the sperm and egg that, when fused to form the zygote, produces this 'tent' (as St. Paul calls it), that we see. What is God-given is our immortal soul/spirit which is not (I don't believe anyway) passed to us genetically. Thus, our body is the result of genes. It's not as if God creates each one of us from dust as He did Adam or Eve. He has given us the means of producing offspring and so, while we are each unique in God's eyes, I don't think that plastic surgery is 'messing with God's creation' per se. This does not mean that plastic surgery should be an option. There are potential psychological (as well as physical) consequences associated with this type of surgery that should be thought about seriously before one even thinks about going under the knife.
I never really met an ugly woman, just a few women who needed some clarification on what color maquillage to wear.
However, there are people with disfigurements; burns, bruises, cleft lips, madonna look-alikes, there are a few people I met in Egypt who looked like little monkeys. These are the people that need help. Is it vanity? no! If they look like madonna because that was their own intention, then they are not ugly, they're just plain stupid.
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=4550.msg77735#msg77735 date=1191262353] I never really met an ugly woman, just a few women who needed some clarification on what color maquillage to wear.
However, there are people with disfigurements; burns, bruises, cleft lips, madonna look-alikes, there are a few people I met in Egypt who looked like little monkeys. These are the people that need help. Is it vanity? no! If they look like madonna because that was their own intention, then they are not ugly, they're just plain stupid.
Forgive me, but you know what I have noticed in most of your posts? They don't really adhere closely to the Church's point of view. How about the one thread with looking at the 'nice woman twice, just to make sure'? Is that not just lust? How about sticking up and defending plastic surgery? Ask any priest, bishop, or even the Pope. They won't say 'well, it's acceptable if it's just a little bit'.
Really, just ask a priest since I'm now the 'Ultra-Orthodox massively strict person who has no fun'.
[quote author=Severus link=topic=4550.msg77747#msg77747 date=1191269486] [quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=4550.msg77735#msg77735 date=1191262353] I never really met an ugly woman, just a few women who needed some clarification on what color maquillage to wear.
However, there are people with disfigurements; burns, bruises, cleft lips, madonna look-alikes, there are a few people I met in Egypt who looked like little monkeys. These are the people that need help. Is it vanity? no! If they look like madonna because that was their own intention, then they are not ugly, they're just plain stupid.
Forgive me, but you know what I have noticed in most of your posts? They don't really adhere closely to the Church's point of view. How about the one thread with looking at the 'nice woman twice, just to make sure'? Is that not just lust? How about sticking up and defending plastic surgery? Ask any priest, bishop, or even the Pope. They won't say 'well, it's acceptable if it's just a little bit'.
Really, just ask an priest since I'm now the 'Ultra-Orthodox massively strict person who has no fun'.
Are u saying that the Church wishes people to look like madonna? or are u saying that the Church doesnt allow cosmetic surgery for someone who has serious facial deformaties?
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=4550.msg77748#msg77748 date=1191269637] [quote author=Severus link=topic=4550.msg77747#msg77747 date=1191269486] [quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=4550.msg77735#msg77735 date=1191262353] I never really met an ugly woman, just a few women who needed some clarification on what color maquillage to wear.
However, there are people with disfigurements; burns, bruises, cleft lips, madonna look-alikes, there are a few people I met in Egypt who looked like little monkeys. These are the people that need help. Is it vanity? no! If they look like madonna because that was their own intention, then they are not ugly, they're just plain stupid.
Forgive me, but you know what I have noticed in most of your posts? They don't really adhere closely to the Church's point of view. How about the one thread with looking at the 'nice woman twice, just to make sure'? Is that not just lust? How about sticking up and defending plastic surgery? Ask any priest, bishop, or even the Pope. They won't say 'well, it's acceptable if it's just a little bit'.
Really, just ask an priest since I'm now the 'Ultra-Orthodox massively strict person who has no fun'.
Are u saying that the Church wishes people to look like madonna? or are u saying that the Church doesnt allow cosmetic surgery for someone who has serious facial deformaties?
Serious facial deformities wasn't your initial arugument - you said: [Quote=QT_PA_2T ] I think that there is nothing with a small bit of plastic surgery, especially if you have buck-teeth! Is this not saying that you accept minor cosmetical surgeries? Or am I just not comprehending correctly?
Look, been strict is good. I always get told off for joking around. So, a balance is always good. Its good to take things seriously, but ya3ni... not "too" much.
Anyway, what is the church's opinion on cosmetic surgery, i mean, i see nothing wrong with it if someone has some burns or major skin deformations that can be corrected with surgical methods.
Well, of course, if it's an extremely serious skin condition or a third degree burn or something like that, then obviously, it's acceptable. If it's just for some one to look 'better' or something like that, then it's not. Basically, if the surgery is required to lead a normal life (no, buck-teeth don't count, lol), then it's OK.
I would guess that this is a view that adheres to the Church, although, you may want to ask your local Abouna.
[quote author=Severus link=topic=4550.msg77754#msg77754 date=1191271089] Well, of course, if it's an extremely serious skin condition or a third degree burn or something like that, then obviously, it's acceptable. If it's just for some one to look 'better' or something like that, then it's not. Basically, if the surgery is required to lead a normal life (no, buck-teeth don't count, lol), then it's OK.
I would guess that this is a view that adheres to the Church, although, you may want to ask your local Abouna.
Wait a sec. Are u saying that a man who has serious scars from acne should not have it treated?? a woman who's breasts are so large that they cause her back pain should not have her breasts reduced.
Changing your nose if your nose is OK is just vanity.
For example, let me tell u something:
What if a girl was scarred as a child in a nife attack. All that remains is a very very thin scar that shows a tiny bit. She wastes about 40 minutes every day to hide that scar with her makeup. WHen she puts on her makeup, the scar hardly shows. However, she wants to save the 40 minutes without having to worry about whether her scar shows or not, so she decides to have some small surgical procedure to iliminate the scar completely. Is that bad?
A man always forgets his glasses. He is 100% dependent on his glasses to see for anything, but he loses them EVERY day in the morning. He cannot play sports because he cannot wear contact lenses, and wearing glasses interferes with the sport. Should he have laser eye surgery??
A man looks like Osama bin Laden, and then gets plastic surgery to look like brad pitt, well... i can't judge, but i think it wouldnt be a bad idea also.
As for buck teeth: look: imagine a kid is being picked on at school because his teeth keeping sticking out and he laughs like a donkey. To correct his buck teeth only costs a few hundred dollars. Should he go through with the operation??
Ya3ni ya serverity, these are small issues... I personally totally disagree with plastic surgery to change your face or to change looks to be MORE beautiful than what u were before (i.e. from one person to another), but to correct what u were given is not so bad.
Look: let's say that your parents give u a big bright red coat made of vinyl plastic and the arms were submarine yellow. Every day you'd wear it to school, and kids just made fun of u. Now, although its a present from your parents, u are not obliged to wear it. You can go to the store and change it for another coat the SAME price!! See??
Stop with the 'severity' stuff. It just doesn't go. I don't see a reason for such a name...
Anyway, if it's such a small scar, why does the girl care so much? If it was a HUGE scar that just couldn't be treated any other way, we go back to the same point that such a scar would potentially impact someone's life and then it would be called acceptable.
Optical surgery is different, it doesn't affect how you look (other than wearing glasses, but that can be seen as an 'addition' and not 'bodily surgery')...how your eye functions is a completely different thing.
And, as our brother Kefas pointed out, you don't need a surgery for buck-teeth. ;) I should have thought of that before :D Yea, I don't think braces are bad.
But I was serious when I said that. In Revelations, it says that we will take off the old and put on the new. We take off the old man and put on the new man. We take off the old BODY and put on the new BODY. Same thing.
It is similar to how baptism takes off the old person (humanity) and puts on the new person (spirituality, divinity). Old person - Adam's sin New person - Holy Spirit
Comments
alot of interseting points but what if ur ugly or cute just have lil floses like a big nose or big ears maybe big mouth or sumthing would plastic surgry be wrong?
It would be conforming to the world, rather than being transformed according to the will of God.
alot of interseting points but what if ur ugly or cute just have lil floses like a big nose or big ears maybe big mouth or sumthing would plastic surgry be wrong?
Plastic surgery in itself is against our Church because it goes against God's creation. God would know how he would want you to be made.
Ya3ni.. God said that we should not lead ouselves into temptation. Someone with buck-teeth will be made fun of all her/his life; and so to avoid temptation, it would be wise to get that removed.
If you look like:
* Osama bin laden,
* Ronald Reagan
* Madonna
* 2-Pack Shakur,
* Kylie minogue
* A donkey
* A rabbit
* or a little monkey
it would be wise to have plastic surgery before people start making fun of u.
A sense of humor, maybe, but not in such a fashion or regarding such a serious matter/subject.
Whatever you like to think though, it's your descision.
Ya severus, methinks that you should have changed the spelling of your name to be "Severe-R-Us" instead.
[quote author=bballdude23 link=topic=4550.msg77714#msg77714 date=1191224899]
[quote author=Copticsol08 link=topic=4550.msg77641#msg77641 date=1191077018]
alot of interseting points but what if ur ugly or cute just have lil floses like a big nose or big ears maybe big mouth or sumthing would plastic surgry be wrong?
Plastic surgery in itself is against our Church because it goes against God's creation. God would know how he would want you to be made.
I'm going to play Devil's advocate for a minute (not that I have been anything else as of late), but I do not think that God 'creates' us (as in, our bodies). God created our original parents, Adam and Eve, and gave them the means of reproducing. Thus, it is our parents genetic make-up in the sperm and egg that, when fused to form the zygote, produces this 'tent' (as St. Paul calls it), that we see. What is God-given is our immortal soul/spirit which is not (I don't believe anyway) passed to us genetically. Thus, our body is the result of genes. It's not as if God creates each one of us from dust as He did Adam or Eve. He has given us the means of producing offspring and so, while we are each unique in God's eyes, I don't think that plastic surgery is 'messing with God's creation' per se. This does not mean that plastic surgery should be an option. There are potential psychological (as well as physical) consequences associated with this type of surgery that should be thought about seriously before one even thinks about going under the knife.
*waits for the repercussions*
However, there are people with disfigurements; burns, bruises, cleft lips, madonna look-alikes, there are a few people I met in Egypt who looked like little monkeys. These are the people that need help. Is it vanity? no! If they look like madonna because that was their own intention, then they are not ugly, they're just plain stupid.
I never really met an ugly woman, just a few women who needed some clarification on what color maquillage to wear.
However, there are people with disfigurements; burns, bruises, cleft lips, madonna look-alikes, there are a few people I met in Egypt who looked like little monkeys. These are the people that need help. Is it vanity? no! If they look like madonna because that was their own intention, then they are not ugly, they're just plain stupid.
Forgive me, but you know what I have noticed in most of your posts? They don't really adhere closely to the Church's point of view. How about the one thread with looking at the 'nice woman twice, just to make sure'? Is that not just lust? How about sticking up and defending plastic surgery? Ask any priest, bishop, or even the Pope. They won't say 'well, it's acceptable if it's just a little bit'.
Really, just ask a priest since I'm now the 'Ultra-Orthodox massively strict person who has no fun'.
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=4550.msg77735#msg77735 date=1191262353]
I never really met an ugly woman, just a few women who needed some clarification on what color maquillage to wear.
However, there are people with disfigurements; burns, bruises, cleft lips, madonna look-alikes, there are a few people I met in Egypt who looked like little monkeys. These are the people that need help. Is it vanity? no! If they look like madonna because that was their own intention, then they are not ugly, they're just plain stupid.
Forgive me, but you know what I have noticed in most of your posts? They don't really adhere closely to the Church's point of view. How about the one thread with looking at the 'nice woman twice, just to make sure'? Is that not just lust? How about sticking up and defending plastic surgery? Ask any priest, bishop, or even the Pope. They won't say 'well, it's acceptable if it's just a little bit'.
Really, just ask an priest since I'm now the 'Ultra-Orthodox massively strict person who has no fun'.
Are u saying that the Church wishes people to look like madonna? or are u saying that the Church doesnt allow cosmetic surgery for someone who has serious facial deformaties?
[quote author=Severus link=topic=4550.msg77747#msg77747 date=1191269486]
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=4550.msg77735#msg77735 date=1191262353]
I never really met an ugly woman, just a few women who needed some clarification on what color maquillage to wear.
However, there are people with disfigurements; burns, bruises, cleft lips, madonna look-alikes, there are a few people I met in Egypt who looked like little monkeys. These are the people that need help. Is it vanity? no! If they look like madonna because that was their own intention, then they are not ugly, they're just plain stupid.
Forgive me, but you know what I have noticed in most of your posts? They don't really adhere closely to the Church's point of view. How about the one thread with looking at the 'nice woman twice, just to make sure'? Is that not just lust? How about sticking up and defending plastic surgery? Ask any priest, bishop, or even the Pope. They won't say 'well, it's acceptable if it's just a little bit'.
Really, just ask an priest since I'm now the 'Ultra-Orthodox massively strict person who has no fun'.
Are u saying that the Church wishes people to look like madonna? or are u saying that the Church doesnt allow cosmetic surgery for someone who has serious facial deformaties?
Serious facial deformities wasn't your initial arugument - you said:
[Quote=QT_PA_2T ] I think that there is nothing with a small bit of plastic surgery, especially if you have buck-teeth!
Is this not saying that you accept minor cosmetical surgeries? Or am I just not comprehending correctly?
would u prefer to look like this: :) or ;D ?
If someone looks like this ;D (has buck teeth) there is nothing wrong with getting it fixed.
Look, let's see here mr Severity-R-us:
would u prefer to look like this: :) or ;D ?
If someone looks like this ;D (has buck teeth) there is nothing wrong with getting it fixed.
Oh, you like name-calling, eh? God bless.
Just ask a priest. In your view, it's correct. If God formed them with buck-teeth, then that's how God wanted them. It's that simple.
Look, been strict is good. I always get told off for joking around. So, a balance is always good. Its good to take things seriously, but ya3ni... not "too" much.
Anyway, what is the church's opinion on cosmetic surgery, i mean, i see nothing wrong with it if someone has some burns or major skin deformations that can be corrected with surgical methods.
I'd love to hear what the Church has to say.
I would guess that this is a view that adheres to the Church, although, you may want to ask your local Abouna.
Well, of course, if it's an extremely serious skin condition or a third degree burn or something like that, then obviously, it's acceptable. If it's just for some one to look 'better' or something like that, then it's not. Basically, if the surgery is required to lead a normal life (no, buck-teeth don't count, lol), then it's OK.
I would guess that this is a view that adheres to the Church, although, you may want to ask your local Abouna.
Wait a sec. Are u saying that a man who has serious scars from acne should not have it treated?? a woman who's breasts are so large that they cause her back pain should not have her breasts reduced.
Changing your nose if your nose is OK is just vanity.
For example, let me tell u something:
What if a girl was scarred as a child in a nife attack. All that remains is a very very thin scar that shows a tiny bit. She wastes about 40 minutes every day to hide that scar with her makeup. WHen she puts on her makeup, the scar hardly shows. However, she wants to save the 40 minutes without having to worry about whether her scar shows or not, so she decides to have some small surgical procedure to iliminate the scar completely. Is that bad?
A man always forgets his glasses. He is 100% dependent on his glasses to see for anything, but he loses them EVERY day in the morning. He cannot play sports because he cannot wear contact lenses, and wearing glasses interferes with the sport. Should he have laser eye surgery??
A man looks like Osama bin Laden, and then gets plastic surgery to look like brad pitt, well... i can't judge, but i think it wouldnt be a bad idea also.
As for buck teeth: look: imagine a kid is being picked on at school because his teeth keeping sticking out and he laughs like a donkey. To correct his buck teeth only costs a few hundred dollars. Should he go through with the operation??
Ya3ni ya serverity, these are small issues... I personally totally disagree with plastic surgery to change your face or to change looks to be MORE beautiful than what u were before (i.e. from one person to another), but to correct what u were given is not so bad.
Look: let's say that your parents give u a big bright red coat made of vinyl plastic and the arms were submarine yellow. Every day you'd wear it to school, and kids just made fun of u. Now, although its a present from your parents, u are not obliged to wear it. You can go to the store and change it for another coat the SAME price!! See??
In point of fact, surgery is not necessary to correct buck teeth. Braces is the typical way of dealing with that problem.
Anyway, if it's such a small scar, why does the girl care so much? If it was a HUGE scar that just couldn't be treated any other way, we go back to the same point that such a scar would potentially impact someone's life and then it would be called acceptable.
Optical surgery is different, it doesn't affect how you look (other than wearing glasses, but that can be seen as an 'addition' and not 'bodily surgery')...how your eye functions is a completely different thing.
And, as our brother Kefas pointed out, you don't need a surgery for buck-teeth. ;)
I should have thought of that before :D Yea, I don't think braces are bad.
plastic surgery is an individual decision and is based on unique n individual situations
ps. too much unneccessary sarcasm on this thread
[quote author=kerestina link=topic=4550.msg77820#msg77820 date=1191339259]
ABSOLUTELY INTRIGUIING DISCUSSION!!!!!! hahahahah (not even now)
[quote author=kerestina link=topic=4550.msg77820#msg77820 date=1191339259]
ps. too much unneccessary sarcasm on this thread
Oh the irony! You knew I couldn't leave this alone. :P
I love you too ker bear. :D
Old person - Adam's sin
New person - Holy Spirit