There is a difference between someone with low self-esteem and someone humble. We should all be humble, but never have a low self-esteem. Everyone should be happy and proud of who they are. Don’t ya think?
Again I think you're confusinf low self esteem with humility. Low self esteem is thinking less of yourself.. that's far from good.. People like that are usually complaining about how fat they are. Do you find that attractive?
Humility is not thinking less of yourself, but thinking of yourself less. People with humility don't have low self esteem, I can assure you that.
hi Hizz Child, What's so odd about me?Im you're average Ashraf. I'm mister Normal. Normal height, normal weight, normal coptic person, normal sense of humour, normal blood pressure, large shoulders and pecs.
OK, i find the fact that you find the fact that i find the fact that women with low self esteem interesting, is because most people wouldn't be bothered to type such a long question to ask me my opinion.
I find women with low self esteem interesting cos - there's a story behind that broken heart which i think is real. I could read a science fiction novel, to waste my time, or simply wonder or ponder upon the realities which led to how someone could be destroyed so much to think so little about themselves.
LOL . Well the reason you're odd Vas is because I havn't met anyone else that feels the way you do about women with low self esteem. When people see a person that places low value on themselves, they too will often take the same path and not think much of them. It's very common. But you Mr. Large shoulders [:P] place higher value on them than you would on a person with high self esteem. & that's what makes you different from the rest, Vas, you're odd. :D:D:D
ps. I noticed H.H. Pope shenouda has published many small books, i purchased several of them this weekend when i was in Ireland. I was wondering: Why doesnt each one of us read one and commentate on it, and provide a summary for everyone.
There were topics such as: -> Judge not others -> Resurection --> Homosexuality & women priests etc
what do u think?? I reading the book on judge not others. Its a very short book.
Also , there's stuff by Fr. Tadros Malaty. Very interesting stuff. I don't have time to read all of them, so it would be nice if someone could just summarise it.
LOL you're funnie. They're not strange, I think a guy falling in love with them would actually raise that self esteem to where it's supposed to be. Just don't break any hearts !!
[quote author=drumaboy link=board=13;threadid=4550;start=30#msg63801 date=1164366794] I think you can deny it all you want but looks are important. however at the end of the day personality is wat wins.
good point, looks do play a role but not a really important or significant one and your totally right that personality often makes or breaks a relationship. we are always initally attracted to looks, no one can deny that and our crushes are often based on looks.
[quote author=drumaboy link=board=13;threadid=4550;start=30#msg63801 date=1164366794] its very hard to consider someone if ur not attracted to them in someway even if u do talk to them alot. I mean they dont have to be so gorgoues that when they walk outside the birds sing for them and a rainbow shoots out there backside, but they gotta have a little something.
they need to be beautiful in your eyes, not neccessarily asd you say gorgeous or one of the ten sexiest people in the world
[quote author=drumaboy link=board=13;threadid=4550;start=30#msg63801 date=1164366794] A compination of both looks and personality is best. and just because someone is beutiful doesnt mean they have a awful personality, i dont know why everyone has jumped to this assumption.
yeah your totally right, you need the attraction plus the personlaity
[quote author=drumaboy link=board=13;threadid=4550;start=30#msg63801 date=1164366794] I actually find hot girls are just as insecure if not more so then ugly girls. oh and final point to much make up that makes ur face look like micheal jacksons is not a good look.
that brings up a whole set of issues such as society's image of the pefect gal and all those anorexic models on the front page of mags, peer pressure and fitting in etc
[quote author=vassilios link=board=13;threadid=4550;start=45#msg63999 date=1164746422] No.. i mean, pray for me cos I keep on falling in love with very strange women
can i then ask? tell me if its not an appropriate question, but do you think we fall in love more than once? sorry if it sounds like a stupid question, but people's first marriage these days seems to come out as a failure (in their eyes) but the second marriage is apparently the best. how can that be? how can you fall in love then out of love? obviously you werent in love the first place and it was just lust.
its very hard to consider someone if ur not attracted to them in someway even if u do talk to them alot. I mean they dont have to be so gorgoues that when they walk outside the birds sing for them and a rainbow shoots out there backside, but they gotta have a little something.
Wat i meant by that is the person doesnt have to be the most gorgoues girl in the room, as long as i find her attractive.
how can you fall in love then out of love? obviously you werent in love the first place and it was just lust.
I think ur completely over rating "love" and maybe a bit confused on wat lust is.
the reason i say this is foreva doesnt always mean foreva even if it feels like it is at the time. Life aint a fairy tale story "and they lived happily eva after...."
and why on earth would you marry someone and maybe have kids with them just for lust. They must of been in love. I dont beleive anyone in the history of the earth has been married for the sake of lust. because the excitment of being around each other would of faded long before they had the opportunity to get married!!!
[quote author=drumaboy link=board=13;threadid=4550;start=30#msg63801 date=1164366794] Wat i meant by that is the person doesnt have to be the most gorgoues girl in the room, as long as i find her attractive.
yeah i know what you meant and thats why i said its important for them to be beautiful in your eyes not necessarily to the rest of the world
I think ur completely over rating "love" and maybe a bit confused on wat lust is.
no i dont think so
Life aint a fairy tale story "and they lived happily eva after...."
i think we all know that
I dont beleive anyone in the history of the earth has been married for the sake of lust.
well you havent met many people than have you. people have married based on lust and as expected their marriage failed, the perception of love too is misconceived. if no one in the history has married because of lust or had kids because of lust we would be a better world with good families with no illegitimate children roaming around!!
and why on earth would you marry someone and maybe have kids with them just for lust. They must of been in love.
im questioning whether people can fall in love more than once. but also a large number people appear as though they are only attracted to a persons physical appearance. simply look at the number of failed marriages, yes i know there are many other reasons but too often people do fall for ones attractiveness and their only need is intimacy.
I don't think you can fal in and out of love. I think that whole concept was created by us as people to make us feel better about the concept of dating.. When people say 'she was my first love' or whatever.. It obviously wasn't love. love is forever. love is unconditional. love is more than just an emotional attraction, it's commitment. It's like 'if i hate you're guts one day, i will still be committed to you'. That's unconditional love.
If God intended for us to fall out of love with people then there should be no problem dating or even having premarital sex right? Well you can't make a lifetime commitment if you might fall out of love...
When people say 'she was my first love' or whatever.. It obviously wasn't love
so what is it then?
can i ask you then why do u think there are so many failed marriages? besides other issues like abuse etc i want you to think about people who marry twice, are they in love the first time or the second time???
An illusion. Your judgement is clouded and your emotions take over. You're tricked into thinking it's love, when in reality it isn't, it wasn't forever.
can i ask you then why do u think there are so many failed marriages? besides other issues like abuse etc
Because so many people see love as a feeling.. feelings fade. you cannot guarantee that you're going to like everything about someone day in and day out, somethings bound to go wrong.. But the mistake people make is giving up and letting themselves get to a stage where they cannot stand it anymore.. and then they break they're promise. they break their commitment.
i want you to think about people who marry twice, are they in love the first time or the second time???
If love is a feeling, that comes and goes, then when you get married, what "feeling" should you have towards your husband-to-be then before you get married to him? No attraction, No love, no emotions, just a 2 bodies going to get married together and reproduce to have kids??
The priest in the marriage tells the husband: "Love your wife". Its as if, its a commandment for him to love his wife. Ya3ni, its hard enough to love her probably as they are... that he has to try and "swing it" so as to love her every day. The priest tells the man to "Love your wife" in that, he is commanded to perpetuate the love he has for her, to always keep this alive somehow.
Then he addresses the woman and tells her: "Honour your husband, address him as "my Lord" as Sarah addressed her husband Abraham. Submit to him... " - its as if , he's reminding BOTH of them of the same feelings of love they had when they first fell in love. To sustain it. I guess when you are in love, you wish to submit to yourself to the one you love, and honour him. And as a man, you probably feel the need to take care of a girl the same way her parents looked after her. (which is also an expression of love, and which is ALSO reminded to the husband on the day of his marriage!!).
So, i think "love" in a relationship is good; especially if you love God more, tha way, you'll obey what the priests tell you, and make sure you always love your wife.
If you DONT or if you DIDN'T love your wife from the beginning of the relationship before marriage, then when the priest tells u to :"Love your wife, and please her". How could you be expected to take this responsibility of loving someone unless you had succeeded in it before: i.e. that you already had some feelings of love towards her before marrying her.
[quote author=vassilios link=board=13;threadid=4550;start=45#msg64151 date=1164931800] If love is a feeling, that comes and goes, then when you get married, what "feeling" should you have towards your husband-to-be then before you get married to him? No attraction, No love, no emotions, just a 2 bodies going to get married together and reproduce to have kids??
No, of course there has to be an attraction. They have to like each other.. but thats not going to be there every single second, they're bound to get on each others' nerves... It's the unconditional love they share that keeps them together.
The priest in the marriage tells the husband: "Love your wife". Its as if, its a commandment for him to love his wife. Ya3ni, its hard enough to love her probably as they are... that he has to try and "swing it" so as to love her every day. The priest tells the man to "Love your wife" in that, he is commanded to perpetuate the love he has for her, to always keep this alive somehow.
Then he addresses the woman and tells her: "Honour your husband, address him as "my Lord" as Sarah addressed her husband Abraham. Submit to him... " - its as if , he's reminding BOTH of them of the same feelings of love they had when they first fell in love. To sustain it. I guess when you are in love, you wish to submit to yourself to the one you love, and honour him. And as a man, you probably feel the need to take care of a girl the same way her parents looked after her. (which is also an expression of love, and which is ALSO reminded to the husband on the day of his marriage!!).
So, i think "love" in a relationship is good; especially if you love God more, tha way, you'll obey what the priests tell you, and make sure you always love your wife.
If you DONT or if you DIDN'T love your wife from the beginning of the relationship before marriage, then when the priest tells u to :"Love your wife, and please her". How could you be expected to take this responsibility of loving someone unless you had succeeded in it before: i.e. that you already had some feelings of love towards her before marrying her.
Ofcourse there has to be love in a relationship.. what are you trying to prove ???
[quote author=vassilios link=board=13;threadid=4550;start=45#msg64151 date=1164931800] So, i think "love" in a relationship is good; especially if you love God more, tha way, you'll obey what the priests tell you, and make sure you always love your wife.
If you DONT or if you DIDN'T love your wife from the beginning of the relationship before marriage, then when the priest tells u to :"Love your wife, and please her". How could you be expected to take this responsibility of loving someone unless you had succeeded in it before: i.e. that you already had some feelings of love towards her before marrying her.
if you think love is good in a relationship, i assume your talking about dating, are you going to love every gal you meet or date? if so how emotionally draining!!!
true love never dies and is expressed in many ways. its an emotion of deep affection.
From a marriage perspective: I would say if your looking for looks you might be in trouble. Many people can have good looks (many people look good). But if you put too much emphasis on looks, i believe you can simply cheat on this person because many other people will look good as well or even better. It is simple to find the superficial, but looking deeper (much deeper) into a person is probably wise. When you find the deeper element that is unique to that person, then you make it even more simpler to avoid cheating because you feel safe in knowing that you possess a better person. I'm not saying that it is wrong to be fond of looks, I'm just saying that you should be wiser and look deeper to win a real prize.
[quote author=Hizz_chiilld link=board=13;threadid=4550;start=45#msg64187 date=1164951077] [quote author=vassilios link=board=13;threadid=4550;start=45#msg64151 date=1164931800] If love is a feeling, that comes and goes, then when you get married, what "feeling" should you have towards your husband-to-be then before you get married to him? No attraction, No love, no emotions, just a 2 bodies going to get married together and reproduce to have kids??
No, of course there has to be an attraction. They have to like each other.. but thats not going to be there every single second, they're bound to get on each others' nerves... It's the unconditional love they share that keeps them together.
The priest in the marriage tells the husband: "Love your wife". Its as if, its a commandment for him to love his wife. Ya3ni, its hard enough to love her probably as they are... that he has to try and "swing it" so as to love her every day. The priest tells the man to "Love your wife" in that, he is commanded to perpetuate the love he has for her, to always keep this alive somehow.
Then he addresses the woman and tells her: "Honour your husband, address him as "my Lord" as Sarah addressed her husband Abraham. Submit to him... " - its as if , he's reminding BOTH of them of the same feelings of love they had when they first fell in love. To sustain it. I guess when you are in love, you wish to submit to yourself to the one you love, and honour him. And as a man, you probably feel the need to take care of a girl the same way her parents looked after her. (which is also an expression of love, and which is ALSO reminded to the husband on the day of his marriage!!).
So, i think "love" in a relationship is good; especially if you love God more, tha way, you'll obey what the priests tell you, and make sure you always love your wife.
If you DONT or if you DIDN'T love your wife from the beginning of the relationship before marriage, then when the priest tells u to :"Love your wife, and please her". How could you be expected to take this responsibility of loving someone unless you had succeeded in it before: i.e. that you already had some feelings of love towards her before marrying her.
Ofcourse there has to be love in a relationship.. what are you trying to prove ???
I was nt trying to prove anything. I just got the impression from your comments that you didnt think love in a relationship was worth much?
Im not talking about unconditional love either. I think when the priest tells the man "Love your wife" - he is not talking about unconditional love. He can't. He can't tell someone to love that way. I think that if 2 persons love God, their love for each other WILL BE unconditional as far as possible, but the FACT that he's actually TELLING him to love his wife means that he's assuming that the natural feeling of love for his wife would be conditional in fact. If the Church assumed that the man had unconditional love from the beginning, then it wouldn t even bother giving either of them the advice it does during the marriage ceremony.
Comments
But Hizz Child said that people who wear make up have low self esteem.
Im saying that, it isnt good, but i do find that attractive.. that kind of uncertainty etc...
I guess cos nowadays a lot of women mix assertiveness with agressiveness
I can't stand women who think so highly of themselves that they have a license-to-kill with their arrogance and agressiveness.
A low self-esteem, in my eyes, isnt sooo bad; however, a very low self-esteem, is a problem.
I think its even fair to say that after all the tribulations Job went through, it affected his self esteem.
Humility is not thinking less of yourself, but thinking of yourself less. People with humility don't have low self esteem, I can assure you that.
Its a rare condition. Im not saying its a postive thing, and "all people should experience low self esteem" LOL no! not at all..
I just find it interesting....
I find the fact that you find the fact, that I find the fact that women with low self esteem interesting, well, interesting also.
So why do you find the fact that i find the fact that women with low self esteems is interesting??
Huh?
How bout you Vas.. why does the fact that i find the fact that you're interested in women with low self esteem interesting interest you ?
What's so odd about me?Im you're average Ashraf. I'm mister Normal. Normal height, normal weight, normal coptic person, normal sense of humour, normal blood pressure, large shoulders and pecs.
OK, i find the fact that you find the fact that i find the fact that women with low self esteem interesting, is because most people wouldn't be bothered to type such a long question to ask me my opinion.
I find women with low self esteem interesting cos - there's a story behind that broken heart which i think is real. I could read a science fiction novel, to waste my time, or simply wonder or ponder upon the realities which led to how someone could be destroyed so much to think so little about themselves.
Pray for me.
ps. I noticed H.H. Pope shenouda has published many small books, i purchased several of them this weekend when i was in Ireland. I was wondering: Why doesnt each one of us read one and commentate on it, and provide a summary for everyone.
There were topics such as:
-> Judge not others
-> Resurection
--> Homosexuality & women priests etc
what do u think?? I reading the book on judge not others. Its a very short book.
Also , there's stuff by Fr. Tadros Malaty. Very interesting stuff. I don't have time to read all of them, so it would be nice if someone could just summarise it.
I think you can deny it all you want but looks are important. however at the end of the day personality is wat wins.
good point, looks do play a role but not a really important or significant one and your totally right that personality often makes or breaks a relationship. we are always initally attracted to looks, no one can deny that and our crushes are often based on looks.
[quote author=drumaboy link=board=13;threadid=4550;start=30#msg63801 date=1164366794]
its very hard to consider someone if ur not attracted to them in someway even if u do talk to them alot. I mean they dont have to be so gorgoues that when they walk outside the birds sing for them and a rainbow shoots out there backside, but they gotta have a little something.
they need to be beautiful in your eyes, not neccessarily asd you say gorgeous or one of the ten sexiest people in the world
[quote author=drumaboy link=board=13;threadid=4550;start=30#msg63801 date=1164366794]
A compination of both looks and personality is best. and just because someone is beutiful doesnt mean they have a awful personality, i dont know why everyone has jumped to this assumption.
yeah your totally right, you need the attraction plus the personlaity
[quote author=drumaboy link=board=13;threadid=4550;start=30#msg63801 date=1164366794]
I actually find hot girls are just as insecure if not more so then ugly girls. oh and final point to much make up that makes ur face look like micheal jacksons is not a good look.
that brings up a whole set of issues such as society's image of the pefect gal and all those anorexic models on the front page of mags, peer pressure and fitting in etc
No.. i mean, pray for me cos I keep on falling in love with very strange women
can i then ask? tell me if its not an appropriate question, but do you think we fall in love more than once? sorry if it sounds like a stupid question, but people's first marriage these days seems to come out as a failure (in their eyes) but the second marriage is apparently the best. how can that be? how can you fall in love then out of love? obviously you werent in love the first place and it was just lust.
its very hard to consider someone if ur not attracted to them in someway even if u do talk to them alot. I mean they dont have to be so gorgoues that when they walk outside the birds sing for them and a rainbow shoots out there backside, but they gotta have a little something.
Wat i meant by that is the person doesnt have to be the most gorgoues girl in the room, as long as i find her attractive. I think ur completely over rating "love" and maybe a bit confused on wat lust is.
the reason i say this is foreva doesnt always mean foreva even if it feels like it is at the time. Life aint a fairy tale story "and they lived happily eva after...."
and why on earth would you marry someone and maybe have kids with them just for lust. They must of been in love. I dont beleive anyone in the history of the earth has been married for the sake of lust. because the excitment of being around each other would of faded long before they had the opportunity to get married!!!
Wat i meant by that is the person doesnt have to be the most gorgoues girl in the room, as long as i find her attractive.
yeah i know what you meant and thats why i said its important for them to be beautiful in your eyes not necessarily to the rest of the world I think ur completely over rating "love" and maybe a bit confused on wat lust is. no i dont think so Life aint a fairy tale story "and they lived happily eva after...." i think we all know that I dont beleive anyone in the history of the earth has been married for the sake of lust. well you havent met many people than have you. people have married based on lust and as expected their marriage failed, the perception of love too is misconceived.
if no one in the history has married because of lust or had kids because of lust we would be a better world with good families with no illegitimate children roaming around!! and why on earth would you marry someone and maybe have kids with them just for lust. They must of been in love. im questioning whether people can fall in love more than once.
but also a large number people appear as though they are only attracted to a persons physical appearance. simply look at the number of failed marriages, yes i know there are many other reasons but too often people do fall for ones attractiveness and their only need is intimacy.
If God intended for us to fall out of love with people then there should be no problem dating or even having premarital sex right? Well you can't make a lifetime commitment if you might fall out of love...
When people say 'she was my first love' or whatever.. It obviously wasn't love
so what is it then?
can i ask you then why do u think there are so many failed marriages? besides other issues like abuse etc
i want you to think about people who marry twice, are they in love the first time or the second time???
The priest in the marriage tells the husband: "Love your wife". Its as if, its a commandment for him to love his wife. Ya3ni, its hard enough to love her probably as they are... that he has to try and "swing it" so as to love her every day. The priest tells the man to "Love your wife" in that, he is commanded to perpetuate the love he has for her, to always keep this alive somehow.
Then he addresses the woman and tells her: "Honour your husband, address him as "my Lord" as Sarah addressed her husband Abraham. Submit to him... " - its as if , he's reminding BOTH of them of the same feelings of love they had when they first fell in love. To sustain it. I guess when you are in love, you wish to submit to yourself to the one you love, and honour him. And as a man, you probably feel the need to take care of a girl the same way her parents looked after her. (which is also an expression of love, and which is ALSO reminded to the husband on the day of his marriage!!).
So, i think "love" in a relationship is good; especially if you love God more, tha way, you'll obey what the priests tell you, and make sure you always love your wife.
If you DONT or if you DIDN'T love your wife from the beginning of the relationship before marriage, then when the priest tells u to :"Love your wife, and please her". How could you be expected to take this responsibility of loving someone unless you had succeeded in it before: i.e. that you already had some feelings of love towards her before marrying her.
If love is a feeling, that comes and goes, then when you get married, what "feeling" should you have towards your husband-to-be then before you get married to him? No attraction, No love, no emotions, just a 2 bodies going to get married together and reproduce to have kids??
No, of course there has to be an attraction. They have to like each other.. but thats not going to be there every single second, they're bound to get on each others' nerves... It's the unconditional love they share that keeps them together. Ofcourse there has to be love in a relationship.. what are you trying to prove ???
So, i think "love" in a relationship is good; especially if you love God more, tha way, you'll obey what the priests tell you, and make sure you always love your wife.
If you DONT or if you DIDN'T love your wife from the beginning of the relationship before marriage, then when the priest tells u to :"Love your wife, and please her". How could you be expected to take this responsibility of loving someone unless you had succeeded in it before: i.e. that you already had some feelings of love towards her before marrying her.
if you think love is good in a relationship, i assume your talking about dating, are you going to love every gal you meet or date? if so how emotionally draining!!!
true love never dies and is expressed in many ways. its an emotion of deep affection.
I would say if your looking for looks you might be in trouble.
Many people can have good looks (many people look good). But if you put too much emphasis on looks, i believe you can simply cheat on this person because many other people will look good as well or even better. It is simple to find the superficial, but looking deeper (much deeper) into a person is probably wise.
When you find the deeper element that is unique to that person, then you make it even more simpler to avoid cheating because you feel safe in knowing that you possess a better person.
I'm not saying that it is wrong to be fond of looks, I'm just saying that you should be wiser and look deeper to win a real prize.
[quote author=vassilios link=board=13;threadid=4550;start=45#msg64151 date=1164931800]
If love is a feeling, that comes and goes, then when you get married, what "feeling" should you have towards your husband-to-be then before you get married to him? No attraction, No love, no emotions, just a 2 bodies going to get married together and reproduce to have kids??
No, of course there has to be an attraction. They have to like each other.. but thats not going to be there every single second, they're bound to get on each others' nerves... It's the unconditional love they share that keeps them together. Ofcourse there has to be love in a relationship.. what are you trying to prove ???
I was nt trying to prove anything. I just got the impression from your comments that you didnt think love in a relationship was worth much?
Im not talking about unconditional love either. I think when the priest tells the man "Love your wife" - he is not talking about unconditional love. He can't. He can't tell someone to love that way. I think that if 2 persons love God, their love for each other WILL BE unconditional as far as possible, but the FACT that he's actually TELLING him to love his wife means that he's assuming that the natural feeling of love for his wife would be conditional in fact. If the Church assumed that the man had unconditional love from the beginning, then it wouldn t even bother giving either of them the advice it does during the marriage ceremony.