Help! Both a Metropolitan and a Bishop!?!?

I really need help. What are you supposed to say when there is a Bishop AND a Metropolitan? Specifically in things like Aketchee and Empeniot (after the absolution of the servants)?? What about Hitens??


  • for aketchee (you gave him the grace of melchizedek etc.), you commemorate first the patriarch, then the metropolitan, then the bishop.
    you just add an extra line with 'nem peniot' for the bishop in exactly the same tune and rhythm as the previous line for the metropolitan.

    it is always metropolitan first, regardless of the age or seniority of the two.

    i think it is the same for the other songs, but i am a complete amateur when it comes to coptic hyms 
    (i have been to 1 1/2 lessons, and the rest i got from this website, 'learn coptic hymns' on you tube and a few other sources).
    hopefully a proper reader  / chanter will answer you before tomorrow...
  • Thank you for your help, mabsoota! 
  • Let me guess. Metropolitan Tadros and Bishop David? ;)

  • In most cases where you have "nem peniot en episkopos" (and our father the bishop...) you add the Metropolitan's name first (as mabsoota said above) 

    "nem peniot em metropolitis Abba <metropolitan> nem peniot en episkopos abba <bishop>"

    "and our father the metropolitan Abba <> and our father the bishop Abba <>"

    In some cases, like verses of cymbals or Rejoice O Mary, you would add a new verse before the bishop verse:
    "nem pefkeshfeer en litorgos peniot ethowab en dikeos Abba <met> pimetropolitis matagrof hijen pefethronos"
    "and his partner in the liturgy our holy righteous father Abba <> the Metropolitan confirm him upon his throne"

    Or in the Hiten (hymn of intercessions)
    "hiten noevki areh eponkh empeniot ettaiot en dikeos Abba <met> pimetropolitis, Pchois..."
    "Through their prayers keep the life of our honored righteous father Abba <Met> the Metropolitan, O Lord..."

    Enjoy the visit!
  • I thought that it technically goes
    1. patriarch
    2. metropolitan
    3. diocese bishop
    4. visiting bishops in priority of rank

    I have even seen some people switch 2 and 3 (which makes sense if a metropolitan is visiting outside his diocese). In reality, almost everyone groups the metropolitans and bishops in "netke neman" and none of the metropolitans and bishops actually care about the order at all.

  • Strangely, I been to a liturgy where the bishops are named by seniority, so it didn't matter if the older bishop is only a general bishop, his name went first.

    I have always thought it was by rank too, but the head chanter whispered "by age".
  • And how will the head chanter know each bishops age? It's not public information. If two bishops were the same age, would we simply flip a coin? Or what if a metropolitan and a bishop were the same age? Is the head chanter going to ask each clergy his age first? On the other hand, date of ordination is commonly known - which is how we typically assign rank. But this doesn't override type of bishop. 
  • easy!
    you measure the beards and do a calculation of the number of grey hairs to the number of dark hairs...

    (don't do this! it turned out a 'really old' priest i know isn't even 60 yet! but such a massive grey beard...)
Sign In or Register to comment.