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Coptic Orthodox Church
what happens when a baby dies b4 baptism?????
edited December 1969
??? If a baby dies before being baptized would he/she go to heaven or hell. . . . . what would happen??? if ne one knows n e thing plz let me know.....
Thanx and god bless,
Unfortunately, with out baptism, you cannot enter the kingdom of Heaven. That is why the church frowns when parents like waiting to baptize the baby. A boy should be baptized 40 days after and a girl 80 days after birth, it should never be longer than this time period. God forbid something happens to the child and he/she passes away, they won't enter heaven.
Under special circumstances, baptism can be done much earlier if the child is sick or in danger of passing away.
Do you really think that God will be so unfair towards an innocent soul???
I'm not questioning the importance of Baptisim, but do we really know how God's miracles work???
According to the Church teachings, if a baby dies before baptism, he can not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. This does not mean that his soul will have to suffer the whole eternity in hell. But the child soul has a place to enjoy since it did not commit sins which is the Paradise but not the Kingdom of Heaven.
In fact, we can not really know how will God treat them. But there is something for sure, that is God is more caring for these souls then us. He wants that all people be saved. That's why we can not say for sure. But there is something we have to do which is to follow the Church teachings and baptize our children at 40 days for boys and 80 days for girls and let us trust God judgement about the fate of other children.
I hope I answered your question.
Pray for me.
- "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he can not enter the kingdom of God" (John 3:5)
- "That He might sanctify and cleans her with the washing of water by the word: (Ephesians 5:26)
- "And such were some of you, but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and the Spirit of our God" (1st. Cor. 6:11)
- "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" (St. Matthew 28:19)
-"The man who believes in and accepts Baptism will be saved; the man who refuses to believe in it will be condemned (John 16:16)
How God will judge each and every one of us, we do not know, but one thing is for sure, God is a fair and righteous judge, He is a God of never ending, boundless, love and great mercy and His mercy endures forever. He loves us, His children so much, whatever decision He makes on who goes to heaven or hel, will be a fair judgment.
Hey thanx for all your replys. . .i really appreciate it. . ..
Grace and peace in Jesus Christ,
I must say I agree with most of what has been said, however, I have been told our church teaches that there are three types of Baptisms.
1) Baptism of water and the Holy Spirit
2) Baptism of Blood
3) Baptism By intention
We all know about the first type. The second type is explained in the right Hand thief who was promised salvation upon His death. It is also explained in many of our martyred saints who were slain and killed before being baptised.
The third type of baptism is when a baby of a Christian family passes away. I guess we see that the second and third type can go together as the people who believed and were martyred would have had the intention to be baptised.
Please do not think I am belittling the importance of baptism, it is a commandment from Christ Him Self and must be obeyed, as we see in Mark 16:16.
God is Love.
i truly believe, that God allowed a baby to be born not for it to be destroyed but for a reason. It maybe for directing a message to somebody else. I have learned recently that even a deacin in time of emergency is able to baptize. But if it so happens and a baby dies without baptism. It was said in the paradise of the fathers that it would enter teh kingdom of God but as a a blind person. I am not sure what that entails as far what actually happens especially at the spiritual level. But after all, we are all God's creation and he has control over al lof us and he can make alive or make dead as we are a creation of God and he is the pantokrator(almighty) who controls everything.
my dear friends, we can not comprehend what the outcome maybe as we are from this earth, therefore so are our minds. God is great, and God is merciful. thats all we need to know. if we truley believe in our faith we must understand that God knows how to deal with all cases, and God is love.
may God open our minds and understanding.
Um.... well i strongly disagree with you all. sorry sorry *covers head with hands and ducks* But, I don't think you need to be baptised to get into heaven. I don't have proof... right now... cause i am too lazy to go look it up.....
Here is what the Catechism has to say about baptism (including the baptism of children). Pay special attention to CCC 1260-1261):
1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation. He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them. Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament. The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are "reborn of water and the Spirit." God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.
1258 The Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received Baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. This Baptism of blood, like the desire for Baptism, brings about the fruits of Baptism without being a sacrament.
1259 For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament.
1260 "Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery." Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.
1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them," allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church's call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.
God is not out to get us. He loves your brother's children more than your brother does, not less. So it is possible to hope for those who have not received sacramental baptism. Indeed, the Holy Innocents were unbaptized, except in the blood of their martyrdom, likewise the Good Thief had only the baptism of desire.
But the fact that God is not bound by the sacraments does not mean that we are not. Indeed, it makes no sense to withhold from children the very thing that God offers for their salvation. It's like having a sick child and then refusing the penicillin the doctor wants to give on the grounds that if the doctor really cared he wouldn't prescribe penicillin. God *doesn't* desire that any be lost. So he has provided, at the cost of his own blood, a means of salvation. It's one of the mysteries of our species that we can look at that kind of self-sacrificial love and, instead of saying, "Thank you", get angry at God.
Senior Content Editor
ummmm ok... what in the world is the Catechism?? Um.. ya i am not Coptic, Catholic, Luthren *or however you spell it* or anything I am Prostetant (um... I think. I know my church is interdnominational..... Hum.....) so ya... i have no clue what you are talking about.
Peace in Christ! The Catechism, no. 1257, states: “Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament.” Clearly, a child in the womb has neither had the Gospel proclaimed to him or her nor “had the possibility of asking” for Baptism. Faith must trust that a miscarried child would not be excluded from the everlasting mercy of Jesus—who went to the extent of leaving His Father’s right hand, assuming human flesh, and suffering horribly on the Cross because He desired so much to redeem. This is why the Catechism notes in the same paragraph that “God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but He Himself is not bound by His sacraments” (emphasis original; cf. no. 1261).
How might the effects of Baptism come to a child, even still yet in the womb? The Church teaches that a person who is prevented from Baptism, but who desires to be Baptized, either explicitly or implicitly, receives the effects of Baptism, i.e., salvation (Code of Canon Law, Canon 849). Baptism is not just what happens to an individual; Baptism is bound to the “community of believers. It is only within the faith of the Church that each of the faithful can believe” (Catechism, no. 1253). In other words, Baptism is not just the faith of the individual, but also the faith of the Church. Thus, a “catechumen or the godparent is asked: ‘What do you ask of God’s Church?’ The response is: ‘Faith!’” (Ibid). Inasmuch as a child is baptized because of the faith of the parents and godparents, it would seem reasonable to assume that parents who would have baptized their child, but were prevented, have an analogous situation. After all, it is the faith of the parents and godparents that is presented at baptism, not the child’s. It would seem, then, that a parents/godparents’ desire to baptize a child/godchild if the child is not able to receive Baptism should suffice. This idea, referred to as the “vicarious desire for baptism,” was put forth by Cardinal Cajetan, who lived during the years of the Reformation. Though this theory is considered theological opinion and not a part of the Church’s official teaching, it is a reasonable inference from Church teaching—one in which we can find consolation.
well when I went to the convention I was very overwhelemd with H.G. Anba Moussa's sermon and I even didn't play at all yet escorted him wherever he went to hear stories and all that. One of the questions he was asked from a sunday school teacher was that she knew a muslim baby that was about to die, so she thought of baptism of blood and wanted to cut herself "accidently" on the baby to baptize him with the Holy Spirit and she said she didn't do it coz she was scared it would be wrong but H.G. said that if she put water on him and made the sign of the Cross he would've been saved.
I don't believe that. :-\ I got baptised when I was 10. Does that mean that if I had died before that, say when I was 9, *mind you I was a christian all this time* I would have gone to hell?
why are you responding like that, with the "hum" and "um" etc..
If you have a question, just ask
The Catechism is the Catholic Church's teachings, doctrines, and beliefs written down in a summarized form. The Orthodox and Catholic Churches believe in using the Bible and Sacred Tradition. This Catechism is part of Sacred Tradition.
Titanic, re-read everything that was written...
Mike, Every Christian can baptism in an emergency..
even non-Christians in an extreme emergency
I wouldn't really say u were "christian" b4 baptism bcoz Baptism is what marks u r Christian and being a Christian needs the Holy Spirit, the again, what is ur definition of Christian?
Ya well i have never read/heard of or believe these catechism thingys
so y weren't you baptized earlier??
My definition of a christian is someone who believes in God and Jesus, that Jesus died on the cross, that he rose from the dead, believes that Jesus is the one who forgives our sins, and through him is the only way to heaven. A christian must repent, and believe in Jesus.
well, what do u know, SUCKS FOR U!
so, the demons in the Bible believed all those things. What separates them from Christians then?
And what about the Bible, and the Church?
In fact, demons believe in Christ sometimes more than we doo and they are terrified by Him!!
well demons don't repent of their sins and ask for forgiveness. *sarcasm* Oh but you holy bible scholars, please tell if i am ever so wrong!
so according to your definition of Christian, you can do whatever you want. Why shouldnt everyone make their own definition of what they want to do?
ha. Ya sure. I believe everyone can do what they want. *hits head against wall* shesh. No I DO NOT! I believe we should strive to be like Christ in all we do, but just because you sin doesn't mean your headed for hell!
Well here O Stubborn one: READ:
Faith Without Works Is Dead
(1) 14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
19You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe--and tremble!
20But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." And he was called the friend of God. 24You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Oh but wait, I forgot, you only believe the vereses u like from the Bible, well guess that's that!!
Christ himself ordered the disciples to baptise others...
I cant believe you Michael. This is why I didn't want to come. I said you were feeding me to the wolves... but no, you go at me with your little "you don't trust me.........
" Gees!!! Your right, i dont trust you, btw thanks for spilling my secrets to Selena and SharaLee. Your a great friend *not*