Lazarus Saturday meets the Feast of the Annunciation?

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  • Posted on the Facebook page for the Service of the Deacons yesterday.

    "Regarding the tune for the hymns of the general funeral service, the official ruling from the Holy Synod is that it should be prayed as detailed in the Service of the Deacons (i.e., Pashal tune). The following is the direct response from HG Bishop Youssef.

    "The general funeral service will be chanted in the Pascha tune and NOT in the annual common tune."
  • Please keep the general funeral discussion on the other thread please, so we would not have information all over the place.
  • OK lets get some things straightened out here:

    Annunciation = Major Feast of the Lord
    Lazarus Saturday = Fixed Day (not feast)

    Annunciation can not be missed, so there will be no Lazarus Saturday.

    Some have mentioned that we should skip Annunciation since we will commemorate it again next month. Well, we JUST celebrated the raising of Lazarus last week! Historically and traditionally, Lazarus Saturday is not even the actual day that Our Lord raised Lazarus from the dead; it is a commemoration! The actual day is Baramhat 20, which was roughly one week ago. Lazarus Saturday is also not part of Pascha as was mentioned earlier. Pascha begins on the Eve of Monday (Palm Sunday night). 

    With all this being said, the priests of my church will be celebrating the Feast of the Annunciation tomorrow, not Lazarus Saturday.
  • [quote author=caji link=topic=13105.msg154370#msg154370 date=1333770578]
    OK lets get some things straightened out here:

    Annunciation = Major Feast of the Lord
    Lazarus Saturday = Fixed Day (not feast)

    Annunciation can not be missed, so there will be no Lazarus Saturday.

    Some have mentioned that we should skip Annunciation since we will commemorate it again next month. Well, we JUST celebrated the raising of Lazarus last week! Historically and traditionally, Lazarus Saturday is not even the actual day that Our Lord raised Lazarus from the dead; it is a commemoration! The actual day is Baramhat 20, which was roughly one week ago. Lazarus Saturday is also not part of Pascha as was mentioned earlier. Pascha begins on the Eve of Monday (Palm Sunday night). 

    With all this being said, the priests of my church will be celebrating the Feast of the Annunciation tomorrow, not Lazarus Saturday.


    Well, thank you Caji for make it more confusing.
  • [quote author=caji link=topic=13105.msg154370#msg154370 date=1333770578]
    OK lets get some things straightened out here:

    Annunciation = Major Feast of the Lord
    Lazarus Saturday = Fixed Day (not feast)

    Annunciation can not be missed, so there will be no Lazarus Saturday.

    Some have mentioned that we should skip Annunciation since we will commemorate it again next month. Well, we JUST celebrated the raising of Lazarus last week! Historically and traditionally, Lazarus Saturday is not even the actual day that Our Lord raised Lazarus from the dead; it is a commemoration! The actual day is Baramhat 20, which was roughly one week ago. Lazarus Saturday is also not part of Pascha as was mentioned earlier. Pascha begins on the Eve of Monday (Palm Sunday night). 

    With all this being said, the priests of my church will be celebrating the Feast of the Annunciation tomorrow, not Lazarus Saturday.


    With all due respect, the priest is mistaken.
  • Interestingly enough, if you search online, you'll find that the Eastern Orthodox Churches are also noting that the Feast of Annunciation and Lazarus Saturday coincide on the same day. They are celebrating both though, not omitting one or the other.

    PK
  • [quote author=caji link=topic=13105.msg154370#msg154370 date=1333770578]
    Lazarus Saturday = Fixed Day (not feast)

    a small correction....Lazarus Saturday is NOT a FIXED DAY celebration. it is set based on whenever the Resurrection is. the fixed day of the occasion is: Baramhat 20th...it's in the senixar.
  • [quote author=caji link=topic=13105.msg154370#msg154370 date=1333770578]
    OK lets get some things straightened out here:

    Annunciation = Major Feast of the Lord
    Lazarus Saturday = Fixed Day (not feast)

    Annunciation can not be missed, so there will be no Lazarus Saturday.

    Some have mentioned that we should skip Annunciation since we will commemorate it again next month. Well, we JUST celebrated the raising of Lazarus last week! Historically and traditionally, Lazarus Saturday is not even the actual day that Our Lord raised Lazarus from the dead; it is a commemoration! The actual day is Baramhat 20, which was roughly one week ago. Lazarus Saturday is also not part of Pascha as was mentioned earlier. Pascha begins on the Eve of Monday (Palm Sunday night). 

    With all this being said, the priests of my church will be celebrating the Feast of the Annunciation tomorrow, not Lazarus Saturday.

    caji,
    To be honest, the Feast of the Annunciation being today isn't really accurate...the church fathers put it exactly 9 months before the Feast of the Nativity but if you wish to be technical, the actual annunciation of Christ was not EXACTLY 9 months before His birth, the church fathers just made it 9 months before so as not to confuse people. So the whole technical this date and technical that date doesn't matter...the average pregnancy is 267 days, so the Feast of Annunciation didn't biologically happen today, it's just the date set by the church fathers as to not confuse anyone...if anything, they should be celebrated together, but if one has to choose between either one to celebrate, Lazarus Saturday is more fitting with the occasion. Look at next week and look at the themes spiritually. It would make more sense to celebrate Lazarus Saturday, which fits much better with the themes of the Pascha than the Annunciation.
  • Why do I feel that caji has hacked my account? HEhe
    Just got the shocking news of our priest last night, as he reviewed the original rites.. it will be Lazarus rites and not the annunciation celebration then as everyone else kept saying
    Oujai
  • [quote author=aem581 link=topic=13105.msg154378#msg154378 date=1333778845]
    [quote author=caji link=topic=13105.msg154370#msg154370 date=1333770578]
    OK lets get some things straightened out here:

    Annunciation = Major Feast of the Lord
    Lazarus Saturday = Fixed Day (not feast)

    Annunciation can not be missed, so there will be no Lazarus Saturday.

    Some have mentioned that we should skip Annunciation since we will commemorate it again next month. Well, we JUST celebrated the raising of Lazarus last week! Historically and traditionally, Lazarus Saturday is not even the actual day that Our Lord raised Lazarus from the dead; it is a commemoration! The actual day is Baramhat 20, which was roughly one week ago. Lazarus Saturday is also not part of Pascha as was mentioned earlier. Pascha begins on the Eve of Monday (Palm Sunday night). 

    With all this being said, the priests of my church will be celebrating the Feast of the Annunciation tomorrow, not Lazarus Saturday.

    caji,
    To be honest, the Feast of the Annunciation being today isn't really accurate...the church fathers put it exactly 9 months before the Feast of the Nativity but if you wish to be technical, the actual annunciation of Christ was not EXACTLY 9 months before His birth, the church fathers just made it 9 months before so as not to confuse people. So the whole technical this date and technical that date doesn't matter...the average pregnancy is 267 days, so the Feast of Annunciation didn't biologically happen today, it's just the date set by the church fathers as to not confuse anyone...if anything, they should be celebrated together, but if one has to choose between either one to celebrate, Lazarus Saturday is more fitting with the occasion. Look at next week and look at the themes spiritually. It would make more sense to celebrate Lazarus Saturday, which fits much better with the themes of the Pascha than the Annunciation.

    The tradition always teaches that the period was exactly 9 month, as we say in many cases, 9 full months. I believe this is a sign of Christ taking a perfect human flesh.
  • If the Annunciation Feast meets Holy Thursday do we cancel Holy Thursday? If the Annunciation Feast meets Good Friday do we cancel Good Friday. Annunciation is a MAJOR but do we cancel Holy Thursday and Good Friday if this is to ever happen? I think not. Lazarus Saturday should be prayed.

    +Kyrillos+
  • Mina,
    That's just tradition though, that is what the church fathers passed down. But I feel like the reason is to avoid confusion...and besides, a month is not a universal measure of time, a month in one calendar is different than a month in a different calendar. The Coptic Calendar is more similar to the Jewish Calendar than the Gregorian Calendar, and the Coptic one is divided into 12 months of 30 days and a month of 6 days...so 9 months in the Gregorian Calendar isn't the same as 9 in the Jewish Calendar (for all of you technical people out there).
  • ok, now i am eagerly waiting to find out which it was! i am away with no coptic churches near by, so i celebrated pascha last night at the catholic church opposite and then palm sunday at the eastern orthodox church down the road today.
    (in case u r not already confused enough!)
  • It was Lazarus Saturday mabsoota... feast of annunciation doesn't trump other rites from the end of Lent Friday till the day after Pentecost
    Oujai
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