Hello,
Could someone kindly explain to me the following:
In Genesis 22:2 it says:
Then God said, "Take your son, your only son, Isaac, whom you love, and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains I will tell you about
I have the following questions if someone could kindly explain to me:
God here says, in ALL translations, "take your ONLY son Isaac". He not only says take your son, but he insists on the fact that Isaac is Abraham's
only son.
What I find really bewildering, is - it wasn't his only son, Abraham also had Ishmael. He had 2 sons in fact. Why isn't God recognising that Abraham also had a son from Hagar?
I had other questions, but perhaps if someone could just answer this 1st?
Thanks
Comments
God promised a son to abraham and it wasnt ishmael, ishmael was illegitimate, so i assume because the son was not sara's as well, so i guess because it wasnt the child that was promised by God then God considers it Haggar's son not Abraham because a son of Abraham has to be a son of Sara as well, please correct me guys
Thanks for the answer. But that doesnt make sense to me for the following reasons:
a) When you say "illegitimate" - it means we don't know who the father is (as far as I know). But in this case, we know who the father is - it was Abraham. Secondly, sarah said to Abraham "Take Hagar as a wife". Thirdly, it was common for a man to have more than 1 wife at that time.
b) Jacob wanted to marry Rachel. But he ended up marrying her sister (I think we all know the story here!). Anyway, he had 2 sons from Rachel (Joseph and Benjamin) and 10 from Lea. All 12 brothers were legitimate. The Bible recognises ALL 12 brothers as legitimate; to the extent that they are the 12 tribes of Israel. We don't just recognise the TWO tribes of Israel, but we acknowledge all 12, even though they came from another woman.
c) Isaac had 2 sons: Jacob and Esau. Jacob was the prefered of their mother, however, Esau was still considered a son to Isaac.
So, I cannot see how they are illegitimate. I cannot see how these people are also illegitimate.
If you asked abouna to get the answer, please let me know, otherwise, how can Ishmael be considered as illegitimate???
God did bless Ishamel also
From
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis 17;&version=50;
19 Then God said: “No, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his descendants after him. 20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard you. Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly. He shall beget twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation. 21 But My covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah shall bear to you at this set time next year.” 22 Then He finished talking with him, and God went up from Abraham.
I'm Pretty sure illegitimate means outside of marrige, and i'm not 100% positive that it said he did marry haggar, and i was just guessing.
Hi His,
Actually, the Bible I have says :"take hagar as your wife".
But this can all be supported by one simple example:
Solomon was born from Bethsheba - the wife of Uriah, not of David. Yet, in God's eyes, Solomon was not illegitimate.
Again, Jacob, had TWO wives. His children were all legitimate from both of his wives - even though he loved Rachel the most.
Thanks anyway for trying, its Ok if u don't know the answer... I'm not so anxious for the answer, but it would be interesting to find out. I can wait until next year when i see my FoC.
In Genesis 17 we find a fascinating account of a Jubilee.
And it came to be when Abram was ninety-nine years old, that Eyahuwah appeared to Abram and said
to him, “I am El Shaddai — walk before me and be perfect. And I give my covenant between Me and you, and shall greatly increase you.”
And Abram fell on his fact, and Elohim spoke with him, saying, “As for Me, look, My covenant is with you, and you shall become a father of many nations. And no longer is you name called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham, because I shall make you a father of many nations. And I shall make you bear fruit exceedingly, and shall make nations of you, and kings shall come from you. And I shall establish My covenant between Me and you and your seed after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be Elohim to you and your seed after you. And I shall give to you and to your seed after you the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession. And I shall be their Elohim [Family].” Genesis 17:1- 8
The next few verses explain how circumcision was made part of this covenant. And the subject of Abraham’s offspring was also raised.
And Elohim said to Abraham, “As for Sarai your wife, do not call her name Sarai, for Sarah is her name. And I shall bless her and also give you a son by her. And I shall bless her, and she shall become many nations — rulers of peoples are to be from her.”
And Abraham fell on his face and laughed, and said in his heart, “Is a child born to a man who is a hundred years old?“
Well, in Abraham's second Jubilee (50 + 50), Isaac was born!
[i]As the previous posters clearly said, Isaac was Abraham's only son by Sarah, and the only son through whom God's promises to Abraham would be fulfilled.
Perhaps my comments weren't clear.
Yes, Isaac was the only son from Sarah. That's true. But it wasn't abraham's ONLY SON! Do you get the point? God is telling Abraham :"Take your ONLY son". But, it wasn't his only son.
Here's another way of looking at it:
--> Jacob and Esau both had the same mother and father. But God blessed Jacob and made him the Patriarch - not Esau. But Isaac had TWO sons. Both were legitimate.
Now, if you are happy with the answers given, that's fine. Leave it at that. I'm not desperate for the answer... I was just curious so I posted it. I can wait until I ask a qualified Theologian or abouna.
If the answer you are giving is the same as what abouna will tell me, I'll let you know.
[quote author=Melchoir link=topic=7492.msg98843#msg98843 date=1230546617]
[i]As the previous posters clearly said, Isaac was Abraham's only son by Sarah, and the only son through whom God's promises to Abraham would be fulfilled.
Perhaps my comments weren't clear.
Yes, Isaac was the only son from Sarah. That's true. But it wasn't abraham's ONLY SON! Do you get the point? God is telling Abraham :"Take your ONLY son". But, it wasn't his only son.
Here's another way of looking at it:
--> Jacob and Esau both had the same mother and father. But God blessed Jacob and made him the Patriarch - not Esau. But Isaac had TWO sons. Both were legitimate.
Now, if you are happy with the answers given, that's fine. Leave it at that. I'm not desperate for the answer... I was just curious so I posted it. I can wait until I ask a qualified Theologian or abouna.
If the answer you are giving is the same as what abouna will tell me, I'll let you know.
To start off I'm not an Abouna or a Theologian but the way I interputed this verse is that Sara is the one he initally married and woman he loved. Hagar was the one he married just to carry the family name.
Since Isaac was the only son from the woman he loved, it was his one "true" son. (I put True in " " because that is the child from the woman he first married)
What I fail to understand also is there was a time or incident where Abraham felt it unjust to just let Hagar go in the wilderness with her son. Even God had pity on her for this reason when he heard her crying. She was treated really unjustly by Sarai. But then, God seemed to want Abraham to leave her in the wilderness, he even tells Abraham to listen to his wife.
Why? I find all this very astonishing to say the least.
The other thing I just noticed in the verse is (not that I'm saying this is true, someone please correct me) is that he may be implying that this is his only son that he LOVED. Perhaps God knew that he didn't love Ishmael (as much).
I think to understand the moral of the story which is that Abraham was willing to give up his only son (from Sarah) because God asked him to is the best way to look at this. He was willing to sacrifice what he loved most for God.
Then He said, “Take now your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you.”
+Pray for me+
I think the best way to look at it is by putting your self in Abraham's shoes. I know for me that would makes sense I can ask my Abouna about it and get back to you shortly.
The other thing I just noticed in the verse is (not that I'm saying this is true, someone please correct me) is that he may be implying that this is his only son that he LOVED. Perhaps God knew that he didn't love Ishmael (as much).
I think to understand the moral of the story which is that Abraham was willing to give up his only son (from Sarah) because God asked him to is the best way to look at this. He was willing to sacrifice what he loved most for God.
Then He said, “Take now your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you.”
+Pray for me+
I don't have a problem with the Moral of the story. Its significance is paramount in our faith. However, what I fail to understand is the fact that God is not recognising Ishmael, when He knew very well that the boy was born from Abraham. Perhaps for Abraham and Sarah, the boy was illegitimate, but no one is illegitimate in God's eyes.
Are they? God cares for everyone, and He sees everything. The hairs on our head are counted.
Yet, God is not recognising the existance of Ishmael.
If He said to Abraham: "Take your son, whom you love, Isaac.. and offer him as a sacrifice to me" - that would be great.
But when He says "Take your son, your only son, Isaac, whom you love... and offer him as a sacrifice to me" - that only gives me the feeling that God doesn't want Abraham to recognise that Ishmael is his son.
And Ishmael, for doing nothing wrong, gets cursed - "He will be a donkey of a man" - what kind of punishment is that ? God doesn't recognise him, Abraham doesn't recognise him, Sarah, who's idea it was to produce him, banished him and his mother; she doesn't even recognise him.
And the best thing God can do is to tell Abraham: "Take your ONLY son Isaac"?? Isn't that encouraging irresponsibility for their actions? Wouldn't it have been better if he had Ishmael and taken care of him rather than leaving him fatherless?
Apparently Ishmael's reward for being born was "Every man's hand will be against him, and his hand will be against every man".
Does any of this sound just or reasonable to anyone? I honestly hope I'm wrong in this.
What I'm looking for is for someone to tell me the meaning or the reason why God said "take your only son" to Abraham, as I trust and know that God knows and respects Ishmael's existance and legitimacy as Abraham's son.
The first time God said take YOUR son (as in Abraham's son which could be both Ismael and Isaac)
then He says; YOUR ONLY son (your=Abraham's and Sarah's son, who is Isaac, their only son)
but to know if this is right, you have to look at the Hebrew...
was the YOUR in 'your only son' singular or plural (as in Abraham's and Sarah's only son)??
God bless
Just guessing
The first time God said take YOUR son (as in Abraham's son which could be both Ismael and Isaac)
then He says; YOUR ONLY son (your=Abraham's and Sarah's son, who is Isaac, their only son)
but to know if this is right, you have to look at the Hebrew...
was the YOUR in 'your only son' singular or plural (as in Abraham's and Sarah's only son)??
God bless
That must be the answer then.
Phew!
-- I think u r right, we need to look at the Hebrew. I'm sure that must be the answer. God will not treat a poor kid born who was rejected by his community for doing nothing wrong in this way. That must be the answer. The "Your" MUST be in the plural.
I will be glad to hear the explanation from your Abounna. But I still believe that Abraham is talking in spiritual terms about Isaak as „My only son“. God say to Jesus „My only son“ as well. We are all children of God, brothers and sisters to Jesus, yet God has only ONE SON.
Mel,
Im really happy with Godislove's explanation. It makes total sense. I'm not that desperate for an answer. I just think the addition of the word "Your only son" is to emphasise the importance of sacrificing something very dear to him (as it is THEIR (Abraham and Sarah's) only son.
Now, if there's more to it than that.. great. I'm all for it.
Why don't u ask your abouna and post on here??
But to say the boy Ishmael is illegitimate is an insult to God's compassion who heard Hagar's injustice and visited her with an angel. This is the God I know. Compassionate and fair. No WAY in the world would God see ANY child as illegitimate. Humans use the term illegitimate child as meaning something very derrogatory. We shouldn't bring God down to our level, but rather we should raise ourselves to His level.
There is NO other explanation than it was THEIR only son. The "your" must be plural.
These were the sons Leah bore to Jacob in Paddan Aram, besides his daughter Dinah. These sons and daughters of his were thirty-three in all. Genesis 46:15
...
These were the children born to Jacob by Zilpah, whom Laban had given to his daughter Leah—sixteen in all. Genesis 46:18
...
The sons of Jacob's wife Rachel: Joseph and Benjamin. In Egypt, Manasseh and Ephraim were born to Joseph by Asenath daughter of Potiphera, priest of On. Genesis 46:19,20
Why does the Bible refers to Rachel as Jacob's wife and none of the other women to be his wife. Personally I think it’s because Rachel is the one whom he wanted to marry.
Please let me know your thoughts.
+Pray for me+
[right]Kjoler
soaps[/right]
hi, i think God let abraham send hagar away because otherwise sarah would have kept mistreating her. he was releasing abraham from the responsibility of looking after her and ishmael because he planned to look after ishmael himself.
Don't get me wrong here, I believe in my heart that God is just and His actions are truly wise. I think the answer is really simple and Godislove gave that. And what you are saying also occured to me - that perhaps Hagar's presence with Sarah may have caused more problems (feuds) between the family had they stayed. Let's not forget - Cain killed Abel out of jealousy, and there was a lot of jealousy already in Sarah's heart, and a need to be loved & accepted in Ishmael's.
Or maybe Greek, in the Septuagint...
God bless you
BTW: does Greek even differentiate between you (singular) and you (plural)? I don't think so, oops, it has to be Hebrew then...
Someone who has knowledge in the Hebrew language can clear this up once and for all!
Or maybe Greek, in the Septuagint...
God bless you
I'm 110% sure your answer is the correct one Godislove...
But as to why God encouraged Abraham to listen to Sarah by abandoning Hagar and her son Ishmael is another story. I would like the answer to this.
[quote author=Godislove260 link=topic=7492.msg98911#msg98911 date=1230735708]
Someone who has knowledge in the Hebrew language can clear this up once and for all!
Or maybe Greek, in the Septuagint...
God bless you
I'm 110% sure your answer is the correct one Godislove...
But as to why God encouraged Abraham to listen to Sarah by abandoning Hagar and her son Ishmael is another story. I would like the answer to this.
Isaac is the only begotten son of Abraham. The only son of the promise God made to Abraham and his wife Sarah. Jesus Christ is the only begotten son of God.
Abraham had many other sons and daughters after Sarah reposed. We are all Gods sons and daughters.
There is a proverb that says it is a bad thing when a maidservant inherits her Mistress' wealth. Hagar was Sarah's maidservant and really should not have had a son for Abraham. The way I have heard the story is that Hagar started to mock Sarah and Isaac and because Sarah did not want trouble for Isaac from Ishmael she thought it best he and Hagar were sent away.
Yes our God is a very loving and compassionate God! But do not forget His wrath when people insist on following Evil.
2 Then He said, “Take now your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you.”
-3173. yachiyd, yaw-kheed';
from H-3161; prop. united, i.e. sole; [glow=red,2,300]by impl. beloved[/glow]; also lonely: (fem.) the life (as not to be replaced):--darling, desolate, only (child, son), solitary.
This is from a well known biblical concordance called "Strong's". The reference number on top is 3173. It was known that Ishmael was around as well but by IMPLICATION calling Isaac "only son" it meant Isaac was the beloved, since God's promise was through him, not through Ishmael:
Genesis 22:15-18 (New King James Version)
15 Then the Angel of the LORD called to Abraham a second time out of heaven, 16 and said: “By Myself I have sworn, says the LORD, because you have done this thing, and have not withheld your son, your only son— 17 blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies. 18 In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice.”
Amen.
Genesis 22:2 (New King James Version)
2 Then He said, “Take now your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you.”
-3173. yachiyd, yaw-kheed';
from H-3161; prop. united, i.e. sole; [glow=red,2,300]by impl. beloved[/glow]; also lonely: (fem.) the life (as not to be replaced):--darling, desolate, only (child, son), solitary.
This is from a well known biblical concordance called "Strong's". The reference number on top is 3173. It was known that Ishmael was around as well but by IMPLICATION calling Isaac "only son" it meant Isaac was the beloved, since God's promise was through him, not through Ishmael:
Genesis 22:15-18 (New King James Version)
15 Then the Angel of the LORD called to Abraham a second time out of heaven, 16 and said: “By Myself I have sworn, says the LORD, because you have done this thing, and have not withheld your son, your only son— 17 blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies. 18 In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice.”
Amen.
OK. Thanks Boricua. So you are saying that the word "Only" is used to mean "beloved" ? But why then does it say "your only son, the one whom you love" - if the word 'only' means beloved, then the term 'the one whom you love' becomes redundant. No? Don't you agree?
Please feel free to explain more. I appreciate your input.
But - for now, we can definately get it out of the way that God accepted Ishmael as Abraham's son and Ishmael was legitimate, except that the promise was to be done through Isaac? Is that correct?
Please could you elaborate more on this?
Thank you.
he is called ONLY son because he is the son from Sarah. like hes the first born. but i really like this question. it makes u think about something you never thoughtt of
+mahraeel+