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Useless post

mikeforjesusmikeforjesus
edited November 2008 in Faith Issues
I got my answers now I want to delete this.

Comments

  • clayclay
    I see nothing wrong with it. Actually, I find it quite intelligent and coherent.
  • mikeforjesusmikeforjesus
    ....
  • mikeforjesusmikeforjesus
    ...
  • clayclay
    This is about responsibility. By your argument, God alone is responsible, as He acts as a random, dictator and author of everyone's destiny. This is heresy. God, the prophets, and all of mankind knows the acting is responsible for his/her actions. What you do matters. To think that God maligns our efforts to choose freely, is to not only to believe in an absurd Tyrant as God, but to believe that we are judged unfairly by God. Which comes your question, "Why Would God Create a Person Who Would be Destined for Hell?"

    Mike, you asked the question, and yet you know that
    1) We must ask forgiveness for our sins- i.e. We are responsible for our sins
    2) We must pursue righteousness, with the grace of God and OUR EFFORTS- i.e. we can change
    3) That God is Just and Merciful

    Obviously something is wrong with your question. We call your question "begging the question".
  • mikeforjesusmikeforjesus
    ...
  • copticcross3copticcross3
    [quote author=mikeforjesus link=topic=7058.msg93907#msg93907 date=1219244371]
    http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/destined.html

    This site says

    "The second incorrect assumption is that God alone has created you. You are the product of choices made by your parents. Therefore, God has not predestined you to be born at all. How can you blame Him for creating you to send you to hell?"

    that seems wrong. Isn't it is as if God alone created us. I can't explain it now but I have a feeling it is. So this christian is wrong on this one I think. If he isn't then alot of responsibility it is to decide to have children.










    WHAT?  i dont understand...so all of you are saying that God didn't alone make you and had no idea you were coming????

    there's something seriously wrong with that..i could be wrong... i really don't have much ...errr...background on things...but like mike said...that seems wierd.
    as long as i hve lived, i've thought ...by someway that God created you alone, how you look and everythng and sent you into a family....i don't understand how you can say it's your parents that have control over you being created...because guess what? that would change a lot of things concerning abortion and other things like that.
  • mikehenrymikehenry
    My two cents:

    WHY God does something is not always clear to us. I think that's part of being creatures/humans. He's the Creator. We have to trust that He knows what's best for us. Why He created people that would live bad lives is for Him to know... I don't think we can know why.

    What we're doing when we try to answer this question is implying that God uses human logic... but He doesn't. However we try to go about answering this question, I think we won't find a definitive answer because our logic is limited.

    Read Romans 9:14 and following (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans 9;&version=50;). It's hard to make sense out of using human logic, but you have to trust that God knows what is best.

    Anyways, the question would make sense if we believed in the doctrine of predestination, but we don't believe in it. But I think that the question being asked is essentially "why would God create someone even though He knows that the person He creates is going to hell?" But the answer that was given (along with the way the question was asked), in my opinion, was given by someone who doesn't fully understand that God acts beyond the reaches of our minds and our logic. I think it's one of those questions that reach beyond our human capabilities. That's just my opinion though.

    But we at least know this:
    We have free will. Even though God knows how we will live our lives and where we will end up, God does not predestine anyone to this or that place because He respects our free will. God's fore-knowledge of our "destination" does not get in the way of our ability to choose our actions. We are therefore responsible for them.

    All in all, we can't know why God creates people who end up in hell. We just have to pray and trust that God is righteous and just.

    Hope that helps.

    (Edited where font is bold.)
  • mmatt95mmatt95

    "why would God create someone even though He knows that the person He creates is going to hell?"

    Good question, this is one of the questions that I have thought about A LOT throughout my life. I can't understand the depths of God's wisdom, nobody can, but there's ways we can try to understand little pieces of it, according to our limited knowledge, wisdom and understanding.
    First of all, we know that God created man as a free being, He created him to live, to enjoy fellowship with God, with the heavenly hosts and also with his fellow human beings and all of the creation. As we know, through the envy of satan, the plan was distorted partly, but God came to restore all that was broken.
    Now...they key word here is: FREEDOM. God created man to make his own choices, yet his only true longing can be fulfilled by God.
    Well...what if some choose not to do so, what will happen? They will feel miserable. Isn't this exactly what happened to the prodigal son? His father never forced him, nor treated him badly. The only thing the father do was giving the son the opportunity to live, to exist, and to enjoy life. By his own will, he rejected all what is good and ran away, ending up in a terrible state.
    The same thing happens till this day: why would parents choose to have children if they know there's a chance they might end up being miserable and rejecting love and goodness??? It's out of love. In love there's always a risk, and exactly because God is love, He was willing to take that risk, in order for us to have the opportunity to enjoy life and be satisfied through Him.
    Another analogy for us to understand this: when a man and a woman love eachother, and want to invest in a relationship, there's always a risk it might not work out, and it's inevitable that harts will be broken. Now, why then does everyone still take that risk? Apparently it's worth it! Like I said, in love and freedom there's always a risk.

    My personal conclusion is that God, by His unlimited wisdom, knew that it would be worth it to create man, even though some might perish. Perhaps it's better to have lived and perish, then never to have lived at all??

    Looking forward to hear ur opinions! But i'll be in Rome from 2morrow, so i wont respond till after a week ;D
  • godislove260godislove260
    Hos Erof, I agree with most of what you said. I see it like this: God created every human being and gives them all they need to live a good life (spiritually). But then they're influenced by others, education, home, ... And sometimes they make wrong decisions and stray from this good life they were meant to have. They do that because they can, because they are free. He, in His goodness and mercy and love, tries to bring them back and help them through so many different ways, but sometimes they end up refusing Him and thus they perish, because that's the only unforgivable sin= blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (= not accepting God in your life till you die).

    I don't agree with Hos Erof when He says that God took a risk. I mean to God everything is present and all is known. So God sees your entire life from the moment you're born until your last breath. So when He creates you and you choose to refuse Him, it's something He knew even before you were created, there's no risk in that.

    However I think I'll try to answer this question: Maybe God creates people whom He knows are going to perish because He knows that someone else might benefit from them and be saved. Imagine knowing a stubborn atheist who just doesn't want to accept God eventhough God tried with him many times. If you were a fellow atheist, seeing this man's life and God's love to him, you might change your mind and start believing...
    Also God allows temptation and this could come from the devil working through a person like that.


    It's not a good example but I hope you get the point... (God can take a bad situation and bring good out of it )This is the only explanation I could think of, I wonder what your views are..


    God Bless
    Please pray for me and my weakness
  • clayclay
    I completely disagree. There is no Biblical evidence at all that everyone has equal resources to living spiritualy well. Whilst God can and has brought the most filthiest, abhorent men and women history and made them the greatest saints of Christendom, it is completely false to Biblically suggest that people are born with equal chance. There are a lot of factors before you were born that made you who you are: not just the environment you were born into, but the genetic composition you have. Your exposure to certain drugs and chemicals etc. Lots of things influence who we are.

    In this way, we are not just the creation of God- but people too.
  • godislove260godislove260
    [quote author=clay link=topic=7058.msg93947#msg93947 date=1219593549]
    I completely disagree. There is no Biblical evidence at all that everyone has equal resources to living spiritualy well. Whilst God can and has brought the most filthiest, abhorent men and women history and made them the greatest saints of Christendom, it is completely false to Biblically suggest that people are born with equal chance. There are a lot of factors before you were born that made you who you are: not just the environment you were born into, but the genetic composition you have. Your exposure to certain drugs and chemicals etc. Lots of things influence who we are.

    In this way, we are not just the creation of God- but people too.



    I never said we had EQUAL chances. I said everyone who is born has A CHANCE to a good life. Because if not everyone had A CHANCE then we would be predestined to a certain life and there wouldn't be freedom, and this is not what the Church tells us.

    Of course many things influence you but you can't forget or ignore that it is God who chose this setting for you to be born in, God is in control of these things.
    When two people have sex, it is God who decides whether they get a child or not, and how the child looks like etc. So you exist because God wanted you to exist, if He didn't want you to be born, He would have stopped the spermcel from reaching the eggcel... It's all in His hands in the end.

    God Bless
    Please pray for me and my weakness
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