aghabi everyone ;D
i had a q on mi mind? Jesus is everywhere he can be in more than one placa at a time. rite? well can saints.. nd can the devil. since he is living n time to tempt ppl so i guess he must be? ??? but isnt that impossible. nd going bak to saints. i wanna noe if they can be at the same time or do they TRAVEL quickly. sryy for the confusing :o
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mahraeel
plzz p4m sister in Christ
Comments
+ This is different to god as he can physically be in all places at once eg. the communion as the communion in one church is just the same one in all churches.
Saints can be in each person's thought's at the same time, and I believe when a grp of ppl talk about a certain saint, that that saint is in the middle of them :).
bentBABAyasooa`
also plzz clarify liitle more on teh devil thxx
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mahraeel
plzz p4m sister in Christ
Thats correct, God is everywhere and is at ALL places all at once, he is beyond time and has no limitation to be bound by it. Saints on the other hand can move quickly from one place to another but cannot be at two places at the same time. Same with the devil and his demons, but i'm not an expert on this so if anyone has anything to correct please do
I think that your right, but like Severus said some saints were known to be able to be in 2 places at once. The devil on the other hand has demons at his command so he doesn't have to be in two places, a devil is a devil, even though each has their own sin and temptation and job. As far as if he has it or not I'm not sure.
Pray for me a Sinner
May the Prayers of Pope Kyrollos be with us all Amen
Glory be to Our GOD Amen!
In a book called "And they Conquered him" by Fr. Daniel who believed that every inch from the earth to the heaven is covered by deamons. But I am not sure if that's the Church's view (Even though the book has the picture of pope Shenouda in the inside, I heard it might have been excumunicated and the coptic monk who wrote it is actually protestant now!)
Does any one know the official church's view?
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mahraeel
plzz p4m sister in Christ
In a book called "And they Conquered him" by Fr. Daniel who believed that every inch from the earth to the heaven is covered by deamons. But I am not sure if that's the Church's view (Even though the book has the picture of pope Shenouda in the inside, I heard it might have been excumunicated and the coptic monk who wrote it is actually protestant now!)
Yes the former Fr Daniel El-Baramousy has turned protestant.
+ Many of the books that he wrote as a monk are very spiritual and have not been excommunicated. While many of his books are very useful, a few of these have started to take another angle. I don't think that the church believes that every place is filled be demonds. There are a lot of them but that doesn't mean that every inch of the land is demon possesed. An example is how can demonds be in churches or christian homes that have been blessed through the prayer of the blessing of the homes that is done regularly every lent. Does anybody have anything else about this as these are my individual thoughts.
Pray for me
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mahraeel
plzz p4m sister in Christ
-the devil also can enter the church thro demon possesed pple
pls keep my weakness in ur prayers
-sister in Christ
aside from that..we r not blaming the devil..this IS the work of the devil
[quote author=jydeacon link=topic=6397.msg84570#msg84570 date=1206564620]
Those thoughts that you get during a liturgy are your own fault from things you are already pre-occupied with. you can't blame the devil for every bad thought you get, believe it or not some bad thoughts are from ourselves. Same thing with sinning, you can't say the devil made me do it all the time, you made the choice to do it.
nobody during the liturgy desires to have his mind wonder and remove his focus from God..these r simply TEMPTATIONS that the devil poses out there as a choice and by the weakness of man we fall and do end up getting distracted..
pls keep my weakness in ur prayers
-sister in Christ
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mahraeel
plzz p4m sister in Christ
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mahraeel
plzz p4m sister in Christ
devils CAN enter the church. Although the church is a holy place, and during the liturgy we have God himself on the altar, people through their sins and worng deeds inside the church bring the devils in. PopeKyrillos made an excellent point - I reinforce it by adding these three videos, and I believe there are more showing on of our Coptic priests casting out devils:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i227QNYkuD0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLHft6xyGh0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HjeyxnvvuQ&feature=related
pray for me
joe
[glow=red,2,300]"[/glow]We start spiritual work, and he begins resistance. He is not comfortable as long as we have any relation with God knowing that this endangers his kingdom. Here are some wonderful words from (The Paradise of Monks): 'When the bell rings in the middle of the night for prayers, it does not only awake the monks to pray but the devils are also aroused to fight monks nad prevent them from praying...' So, St. Evagrius said, "When you begin a holy prayer, be ready for whatever may befall you. Whenever we start spiritual practises, whether prayers, contemplation, hymns, spiritual reading, or kneeling down in worship, the devil does not stand tied up or merely watching but he also works and he has certain wars he fights with. True indeed are the words of the Book of Joshua the Son of Sirach, "My son if you come to serve your god be ready for all temptations[glow=red,2,300]"[/glow]
Note that during all places the devils fights us, when we start spiritual works or worship, including in the church.
pray for me
joe
Abba Theodoulos said to me: “One day I went up from the monastery to the Holy City (Jerusalem) to venerate the Holy Cross. After I had performed my devotions, as I was coming out of the ante-chamber of the church of the Holy Cross, I saw a brother standing at the door, neither going in nor coming out. I also saw two ugly crows flying in his face and brushing their wings against his eyes, effectively preventing him from entering the shrine. Knowing them to be demons, I said to him, “Tell me, brother, why do you hesitate in the doorway itself and not go in?” He said, “Forgive me, abba. I have conflicting emotions, sir. One urges me to enter and to venerate the honorable Cross, but the other says, “No, make an excuse and make your devotions some other time.” When I heard this, I took him by the hand and led him into the shrine; the crows immediately fled from him. I got him to venerate the Holy Cross and the Holy Sepulchre of Christ our God, then I dismissed him in peace.” Abba Theodoulos said these things to me because he could see that I was much distracted by my duties and he perceived that I was neglecting my prayers.
John Moschus, Leimonarion (The Spiritual Meadow) 105
At the consecration of a monastic church dedicated to St. Macarius, the Coptic patriarch Benjamin I, 622-661, relates):
When I had finished the divine service and communicated the clergy, I saw again a great grace which I must not hide from thee. For when the old men came up for communion, I saw a vapour of incense ascending like perfume from their mouths, so that I thought that each one of those fathers and monks carried incense when he came up to communion. Then the roof of the church opened, and that perfume ascended from it. And I observed their mouths as they prayed when they approached the Lamb, and I saw the words and the incense which issued from their mouths ascending to heaven. So I was assured then that it was their petitions and their prayers, which they uttered when the received the Holy Mysteries, which are the Body and Blood of the pure Lord Jesus Christ.
And I saw the angels receiving those prayers of theirs, and carrying them up before the throne of the Lord. And, on account of the power of their prayers and supplications, I thought: Verily this is the golden candlestick holding the lamp; and this is the precious jewel; and this is the morning star which rises and shines upon the whole world. And I sang the hymn of the three young men, Ananias, Azarias, and Misael, which they recited in the furnace of burning fire: Blessed art Thou O Lord, God of our fathers, and praised and glorified for ever. And blessed in truth is the Lord, the God of these saints, by whom and by whose like He directs the world. This is the meeting-place of angels, and the harbor of all the souls which flee to God, the Deliverer of all souls. Then I glorified and thanked the Lord Jesus Christ, who made me worthy to witness what I saw.
from Severus ibn al-Muqaffa, History of the Patriarchs, 14 [247-248] 8 November,
Synaxis of Archangels Michael, Gabriel and all Heavenly Hosts
…who had gone to the Church of St. Gerasimos on the island of Cephallonia. During the Divine Liturgy, he stood in the Altar area and was praying with his komboskini (prayer rope) the Prayer of the Heart “Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner while the others were chanting. They had also brought a possessed person into the church to be cured by St. Gerasimos. While the monk was saying the prayer in the Altar, the demon was being seated outside and was shouting, ““Stop working that string, will you, monk; it is burning me!””
The priest heard it too, and said to the monk, ““Pray with your komboskini as much as you can, my brother, so that God’s creature can be freed of the demon.””
The demon then shouted in great anger, “”You, rotten priest, you. What are you telling him to pull that string for? It is burning me!””
The monk then prayed with his komboskini with even greater effort and the possessed man was delivered from the demon.
from Elder Paisios of Mt. Athos,
Athonite Fathers and Athonite Matters
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mahraeel
plzzz p4m sister in Christ