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Modernizing Hymns

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  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=Severus link=topic=5806.msg78089#msg78089 date=1191896717]
    Why don't we just teach the children Coptic? They can learn it. It isn't that hard...half of the letters are familiar to them anyway!

    I think that the Sunday school system should be standard from Church to Church - with each lesson being one hour.
    Half hour for hymns used in the Liturgy (Hiten, Alleluia Fai Pe Pi, Agios O Theos, etc)
    And the other half hour for study of the Coptic language - this would include lexicons, reading, and understanding the texts/hymns.
    For example, composing works in Coptic, no matter how basic, would greatly improve thier skills.

    One can only dream of such a 'revival', so to speak.




    well that's not part of sunday school. that's part of alhan classess which depends on the deacons of the church which is diffrent in every church in the states and mostly in egypt.
  • pp
    Well, Mina, John, and Severus,
    That is definitely way too stereotypical. First, Mina and John, I was raised by my parents to love the Church. I am pretty sure anybody who has a Tasbeha.org Screename was raised to love the Church. There are even more than just the people that have a Tasbeha.org Screename that love the Church. My point is many parents do raise their children up correctly. It is then the child's choice to accept it or not. The troublemakers barely sing, they murmur or mumble. Also, Severus, if they are taught Coptic, it is great and everything, how about what will happen with worshipping and that? If you know Coptic, then you HAVE TO know what every hymn means. You would need a general outlook on what the hymn was about (e.g.: [coptic]Qen ouswt[/coptic] means Explanation of the Escape of the Israelites from the Egyptian's Wrath). They cannot just know how to read a language without knowing what they are reading. It is just like a prayer, in which you are supposed to use your "heart, soul, and mind", there is no soul or heart here. Mina, that isn't the point, they could very easily teach Coptic in Sunday School but not the really complex hymns (e.g. [coptic]Rasi ne[/coptic], [coptic]Hiten[/coptic], hymns like that).
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=aem581 link=topic=5806.msg78093#msg78093 date=1191898140]
    Well, Mina, John, and Severus,
    That is definitely way too stereotypical. First, Mina and John, I was raised by my parents to love the Church. I am pretty sure anybody who has a Tasbeha.org Screename was raised to love the Church. There are even more than just the people that have a Tasbeha.org Screename that love the Church. My point is many parents do raise their children up correctly. It is then the child's choice to accept it or not. The troublemakers barely sing, they murmur or mumble. Also, Severus, if they are taught Coptic, it is great and everything, how about what will happen with worshipping and that? If you know Coptic, then you HAVE TO know what every hymn means. You would need a general outlook on what the hymn was about (e.g.: [coptic]Qen ouswt[/coptic] means Explanation of the Escape of the Israelites from the Egyptian's Wrath). They cannot just know how to read a language without knowing what they are reading. It is just like a prayer, in which you are supposed to use your "heart, soul, and mind", there is no soul or heart here. Mina, that isn't the point, they could very easily teach Coptic in Sunday School but not the really complex hymns (e.g. [coptic]Rasi ne[/coptic], [coptic]Hiten[/coptic], hymns like that).


    u'd be surprised how ppl still ask about hymns' audio and texts even thoo they're all here on tasbeha.org.
  • SeverusSeverus
    Hence, I mentioned the lexicons, aka dictionaries  ;)
  • jydeaconjydeacon
    I don't know how old you are but i'm talking about the younger generations in the church, 8-14 year old range, who have lost respect for the church, its hierarchy, and when the deacons start doing their jobs by disciplining the deacons who are younger then them to teach them the parents get upset and i am talking from personal experience. i have been scolded many times by parents because i told their kids not to do something that they weren't supposed to be doing and no matter how many times i tell the parents that i am trying to teach them what is right and wrong to do in church they don't grasp it. so who's fault is that, the parents certainly because they didn't teach the kids to respect the ones who are older then them. i never in my life thought it right to talk back to one of the older deacons inside or outside of church because my parents taught me and because i learned from example, these kids are not paying attention and refuse to listen
  • pp
    John,
    My point is that not all of the Epsaltoses are like that. I never said that there weren't any, I am just saying that that was stereotypical. I definitely agree with you on this part, but gradually, they will mature, and badin, will be the future leaders of the Church. Also, if it was really that big of a problem, Abouna would tell them that they cannot enter the Church for 6 months. I've seen Abouna say that to someone before. I am not saying that it is not your concern, I am just saying that you should tell Abouna to say this in the announcements or something. Tell him to say that the congregation is bombarding the deacons with inappropriate comments and scolds (not sure if that is a real word).
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=aem581 link=topic=5806.msg78097#msg78097 date=1191901233]
    John,
    My point is that not all of the Epsaltoses are like that. I never said that there weren't any, I am just saying that that was stereotypical. I definitely agree with you on this part, but gradually, they will mature, and badin, will be the future leaders of the Church. Also, if it was really that big of a problem, Abouna would tell them that they cannot enter the Church for 6 months. I've seen Abouna say that to someone before. I am not saying that it is not your concern, I am just saying that you should tell Abouna to say this in the announcements or something. Tell him to say that the congregation is bombarding the deacons with inappropriate comments and scolds (not sure if that is a real word).


    ur right...not the same in the real world. not every youth or child will care if u band him from church or not. that's why priest have to be carful of how they deal with them to not fully lose them.
  • pp
    But Mina, how about if both the parents and priest talk to the child? Wouldn't you think that maybe the message might click in the child's head, whoever it may be???
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=aem581 link=topic=5806.msg78099#msg78099 date=1191903000]
    But Mina, how about if both the parents and priest talk to the child? Wouldn't you think that maybe the message might click in the child's head, whoever it may be???


    well yes. but paretns have to do that rit so not to lose the child eithr. it's hard to deal with children in today's society.
  • pp
    Yeah, I see your point. I am just saying that anyways, they will come back to the Church. We say in the Conclusion of Every Hour in the Agpeya, "...Who does not wish the death of a sinner, but rather, that he returns and lives, Who calls all to salvation for the promise of the good things to come". He will redeem us if he finds it necessary (which He always does). HE CALLS ALL TO SALVATION!!! He would eventually save HIS children (the deacon) lest they fall into sin... He is always there for them. He never leaves them.
  • ophadeceophadece
    Dear all,
    Just want to add my voice to severus, copticcross3, and jydeacon that I am dreaming with the revival of Coptic language, and 100% for the services to be wholly and solely in Coptic.
    God bless you all and pray for us a lot
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