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Missing That Spark
SO i dont know how many of you might be in my shoes
but personally my prayer life is horrible and its not because of anything but hte mere fact that
i am missing that spark.......nto even that.......its basically like wen u light a match and it burns out too quickly......i cant at all make myself WANT TO PRAY and Abouna's advice hasnt' struck me yet
can anyone help at all?
but personally my prayer life is horrible and its not because of anything but hte mere fact that
i am missing that spark.......nto even that.......its basically like wen u light a match and it burns out too quickly......i cant at all make myself WANT TO PRAY and Abouna's advice hasnt' struck me yet
can anyone help at all?
Comments
SO i dont know how many of you might be in my shoes
but personally my prayer life is horrible and its not because of anything but hte mere fact that
i am missing that spark.......nto even that.......its basically like wen u light a match and it burns out too quickly......i cant at all make myself WANT TO PRAY and Abouna's advice hasnt' struck me yet
can anyone help at all?
Hmmm.. what was abouna's advice exactly?
Listen, i think problems help us pray. When we are confronted with a huge issue, we turn to God. I take it everything is going OK then your life? U have nothing to ask God for? or to thank Him??
How about this? Just read the agpeya!!
Or... alternatively, u can fast for Saint Mary's feast??
I am facing this exact same dilemma right now as well. My drive to pray is non-existent even though my spirit longs for it. I know the beauty of prayer and I've experienced the joy and peace that comes as a result of prayer. And yet, I cannot bring myself to pray. It is a bizarre feeling which is hard to convey to someone if that person has not experienced this sort of spiritual languor. I would also like to see what others who have gone through this sort of 'spiritual doldrums' have to offer as means of resolving this problem. Your advice would be greatly appreciated.
[coptic]+ Iryny nem `hmot>[/coptic]
I am facing this exact same dilemma right now as well. My drive to pray is non-existent even though my spirit longs for it. I know the beauty of prayer and I've experienced the joy and peace that comes as a result of prayer. And yet, I cannot bring myself to pray. It is a bizarre feeling which is hard to convey to someone if that person has not experienced this sort of spiritual languor. I would also like to see what others who have gone through this sort of 'spiritual doldrums' have to offer as means of resolving this problem. Your advice would be greatly appreciated.
Yes. I've been there.
THis is what u need to do:
Just pray from the agpeya.
Just pray from the agpeya.
the agpeya is great and everything. but if u don't want or desire to pray, it would be like just reading a book. you need your desire to lead u into prayer and than agpeya brings u deep into prayer.
basiclly the spark here is that less than a second when the match is lit. Thats the desire for prayer.
and than what happends after that is the match would stay lit. that's what the agpeya do.
It's not that easy. You can't just go 'pick up the agpeya' and you're on your way. I lack the drive to make an effort. Since you've experienced this, how did you get the drive to start praying in the agpeya. Something must have given you the desire to pick it up. What was it? How did it happen to you?
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=5621.msg75040#msg75040 date=1186056217]
Just pray from the agpeya.
the agpeya is great and everything. but if u don't want or desire to pray, it would be like just reading a book. you need your desire to lead u into prayer and than agpeya brings u deep into prayer.
basiclly the spark here is that less than a second when the match is lit. Thats the desire for prayer.
and than what happends after that is the match would stay lit. that's what the agpeya do.
OK.. go and find a wife. Not just any wife, but a virtuous wife.
This will lead u in prayer!
Especially if u want someone Coptic!!!
[quote author=minagir link=topic=5621.msg75043#msg75043 date=1186060386]
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=5621.msg75040#msg75040 date=1186056217]
Just pray from the agpeya.
the agpeya is great and everything. but if u don't want or desire to pray, it would be like just reading a book. you need your desire to lead u into prayer and than agpeya brings u deep into prayer.
basiclly the spark here is that less than a second when the match is lit. Thats the desire for prayer.
and than what happends after that is the match would stay lit. that's what the agpeya do.
OK.. go and find a wife. Not just any wife, but a virtuous wife.
This will lead u in prayer!
Especially if u want someone Coptic!!!
what in the world r u talking about..........
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=5621.msg75045#msg75045 date=1186060464]
[quote author=minagir link=topic=5621.msg75043#msg75043 date=1186060386]
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=5621.msg75040#msg75040 date=1186056217]
Just pray from the agpeya.
the agpeya is great and everything. but if u don't want or desire to pray, it would be like just reading a book. you need your desire to lead u into prayer and than agpeya brings u deep into prayer.
basiclly the spark here is that less than a second when the match is lit. Thats the desire for prayer.
and than what happends after that is the match would stay lit. that's what the agpeya do.
OK.. go and find a wife. Not just any wife, but a virtuous wife.
This will lead u in prayer!
Especially if u want someone Coptic!!!
what in the world r u talking about..........
Mina,
Knfoc is saying that he can't pray. He doesnt have the urge. I'm suggesting for him to find a wife.
Finding a wife involves LOTS of praying. You have to pray. A virtuous wife is from the Lord, therefore, you should be in contact with the Lord daily.
If you want the virtuous wife to be Egyptian, this is VERY possible, but will require a LOT OF PRAYERS, so in effect, it PUSHES u to prayer.
THe problem is: we only pray when we have problems or need something. Perhaps if he needed a wife, it would help him to pray.
Does this make sense to u now mina?
Mina,
Knfoc is saying that he can't pray. He doesnt have the urge. I'm suggesting for him to find a wife.
Finding a wife involves LOTS of praying. You have to pray. A virtuous wife is from the Lord, therefore, you should be in contact with the Lord daily.
If you want the virtuous wife to be Egyptian, this is VERY possible, but will require a LOT OF PRAYERS, so in effect, it PUSHES u to prayer.
THe problem is: we only pray when we have problems or need something. Perhaps if he needed a wife, it would help him to pray.
Does this make sense to u now mina?
well yes it does make sense a little.
but than why would u carry more responsibilty that u might not be ready for.
u can't get into a probelm to solve another except if it was set from God. and u don't know if God wants u to get married now or not.
marriage is not an easy thing to be dealing with to fix a relationship with God. marriage normally takes u away from God. not fully but now u would have responsiblty of others not only u towards God.
* i would really love to know what with you and marrige vassilios??!!!!
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=5621.msg75048#msg75048 date=1186061477]
Mina,
Knfoc is saying that he can't pray. He doesnt have the urge. I'm suggesting for him to find a wife.
Finding a wife involves LOTS of praying. You have to pray. A virtuous wife is from the Lord, therefore, you should be in contact with the Lord daily.
If you want the virtuous wife to be Egyptian, this is VERY possible, but will require a LOT OF PRAYERS, so in effect, it PUSHES u to prayer.
THe problem is: we only pray when we have problems or need something. Perhaps if he needed a wife, it would help him to pray.
Does this make sense to u now mina?
well yes it does make sense a little.
but than why would u carry more responsibilty that u might not be ready for.
u can't get into a probelm to solve another except if it was set from God. and u don't know if God wants u to get married now or not.
marriage is not an easy thing to be dealing with to fix a relationship with God. marriage normally takes u away from God. not fully but now u would have responsiblty of others not only u towards God.
* i would really love to know what with you and marrige vassilios??!!!!
Look Mina,
It was just an idea!! Marriage IS from God. On the contrary, it doesnt take u away, but makes u closer!!!!
I TOTALLY DISAGREE WITH WHAT U SAID!!!
Marriage is a holy sacrament. Christ symbolised himself even as the bridegroom, and His Church as the bride. THerefore, how can this relationship be something that takes u away from God!!
THe Church is meant to resemble the ARk of Noah, as those that were in the ARk were saved. The same for marriage. Those that are in it, are saved. Saved from what?? The relationship itself saves u from the problems that God Himself pointed out when He said :"It was not good for Adam to be alone".
Look Mina,
It was just an idea!! Marriage IS from God. On the contrary, it doesnt take u away, but makes u closer!!!!
I TOTALLY DISAGREE WITH WHAT U SAID!!!
Marriage is a holy sacrament. Christ symbolised himself even as the bridegroom, and His Church as the bride.
ya habibi am not disagreeing with what you said about marriage.
but u can't use marrige as a back door to come closer to God.....atleast not on this case w're talking about.
and there u go, u've said it. so the ark is the marrige life and Noah is the husbend. who ever is in the ark is saved...rit....
BUT WHO'S RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ARK AND IT's SALVATIOn....Noah......the husbend.
please keep in mind i didn't say it fully takes u away from God....but it atleast effacts it alittle.
you should be able to get these books from a church bookstore and if not order it online
The bible says if anyone is suffering he should pray.. if he is joyful he should sing psalms ..
The bible says we must through many trials and tribulations enter the kingdom of God.. therefore Pray that God gives you trouble if need be for your salvation.. nothing should steal the joy of the Lord from you though (but I am disturbed sometimes about the smallest things)
Pope shenouda believes not everyone starts with the love of God or love of good (only holy saints reach perfect love or close to perfect love).. and it is not often there from the beginning.. he believes if you do not want to pray to force yourself to pray and read from the prayers of the hours (though I do not read myself from them much)... and he believes God perhaps will look on your affliction and give you the gift of loving prayer
fear of hell should drive a person to pray.. for the bible says enter through the narrow gate..... and few shall be saved..
people might disagree with me here and I think it might be wrong to say.. but it seems the bible did not say exacly how many shall be saved.. perhaps there is few but not being as small as 10% ... I wish it were 35% compared to 65% who are not saved.. so that there is more hope for us... some generations are more wicked than others also.. for some generations very few might be saved and for others perhaps many.. maybe this was so when many coptic christians were martyred for their faith...
For some people serving people will drive them to pray... when they see all the needs of others they are driven to pray for love of them..
reading the bible and reading the lives of the stories of the saints may drive others to pray too for it makes us feel insignificant
physical or mental labour will make a person pray when he realised his weakness and love of luxury.. and the diabolic wars of the enemy should drive someone to pray to be victorious over the devil.
Finally pray for me for the envy of the devil is cruel who wishes our destruction even if it is 30 years from now...
it is easy to talk but to accept crosses humbly is difficult...
I hope I did not make people despair and think the spiritual life is close to impossible.. for Jesus said "What is not possible with man is possible with God" and pope shenouda says the devil says this to us and makes us forget or not know the abundant grace of God
OK then bak to the topic at hand i agree with KOKO, u cant jus pik up an agpeya and ur spiritual life will be restored..it requires more than that.....most of the time wen reading the agpeya it jus becomes words with no meaning........thus u need to look for that meaning...u need to reflect and take time to think about u n ur relatiosnhip with christ..........i think we all inevitably have gone thru such struggles with our spiritual growth but i thinks it important to ask urself wat makes u appreciate christ?? and also think about how u have overcome this previously??
my answer is reflection.....spending time alone to tink about life in general and Christ......
mina n vas ur babbling nonsense; no one has benefited at all from ur petti discussion
OK then bak to the topic at hand i agree with KOKO, u cant jus pik up an agpeya and ur spiritual life will be restored..it requires more than that.....most of the time wen reading the agpeya it jus becomes words with no meaning........thus u need to look for that meaning...u need to reflect and take time to think about u n ur relatiosnhip with christ..........i think we all inevitably have gone thru such struggles with our spiritual growth but i thinks it important to ask urself wat makes u appreciate christ?? and also think about how u have overcome this previously??
my answer is reflection.....spending time alone to tink about life in general and Christ......
Yes.. this is a good point. You need to spend "quiete" time ... reflection time.
How about go to the countryside?
are you trying to mock my suggestion vassilios?? you dont have to agree with itt........
No. I agree with it. In fact, we had this topic at Church called "Quiete Time". I asked the same question : "I cant pray alone... i can only pray in a CHurch, or during a mass".
Abouna said :"The devil will leave you alone to pray at Church etc, but NEVER alone.. he'll never want u to ahve your quiete time... if u can only pray in Church, then your spiritual life depends on others... what will you benefit in praying in Church IF you don't spend some quality time with Christ ALONE".
So.. i was agreeing with you.
Do you lack confidence? Not everything u say is silly. Sometimes, you too can add good points to a discussion.
And finally, How about going to the countryside???? If where u live there is no quietness, go out to where u are secluded and alone?? its just an idea.
No. I agree with it. In fact, we had this topic at Church called "Quiete Time". I asked the same question : "I cant pray alone... i can only pray in a CHurch, or during a mass".
Abouna said :"The devil will leave you alone to pray at Church etc, but NEVER alone.. he'll never want u to ahve your quiete time... if u can only pray in Church, then your spiritual life depends on others... what will you benefit in praying in Church IF you don't spend some quality time with Christ ALONE".
So.. i was agreeing with you.
this is a first
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=5621.msg75059#msg75059 date=1186068309]
Do you lack confidence? Not everything u say is silly. Sometimes, you too can add good points to a discussion.
And finally, How about going to the countryside???? If where u live there is no quietness, go out to where u are secluded and alone?? its just an idea.
me? lack confidence? HA! u wish sunshine lol......i jus cant read u STILL!!!..
This is important.
Abouna actually agreed with what she said. She didnt say anything evil.. but it sounded a bit romantic to me.
Anyway... try it! What have u got to lose?
What she said was:"Play some soft music.. or Christian music in the background... then meditate, and contemplate on the day," then she asked us to read some text from someone protestant... ouuffff!!! What is happening to our Church... anyway.... she photocopied it for everyone....
Listen, forget the romantic music... just try to pray alone and contemplate.
When you are in church and you feel that erge to pray get up pray when ever that erge comes do not delay it but get up and pray. May God Bless You. Pray for me.
Also who is vassilios?
Abouna was like Ask for Gods Help during Holy Communion and Read a little
i used to live a wonderful spirtual life .....and its not cuz i want stuff from God, like i used to pray to God because i enjoyed praying to God i tried to keep my Spirtual Life Seperate from my Social Life but if i needed God in my Social Life i'd call upon him....heres' the thing I still call on God when I need him and I do thiank him w/ my self......but I just cant get my Spirtual Life to were it was
I can safely say that our lack of urge to pray comes from the emptiness of our lives. We do not have a set goal to reach. We live everyday as it is. We only look under our feet and we do not try to raise our eyes to Heaven and enjoy its beauty. We are not determined to reach the Kingdom of God by all means. We always give ourselves excuses that hinder us from reaching our Ultimate Goal. We think that our God is a good Lord who always forgives and we rely on the fact that there is always a sun to rise in the morning. We fool ourselves by thinking we will always have a tomorrow to rise and start a fresh!
We mostly go through this 'mode' when we dive into the routine of life without doing anything meaningful to our salvation and others.
And we also face this attitude when we just got out of a painful experience and do not know what to do next. We feel weak and helpless and have no energy to spare in anything else.
The prodigal son went through the same experience. But it took him time to 1) realize his mistake 2) remember the goodness of his father 3) blamed himself 4) repented 5) took the decision to go back to his father as a servant and fight, like a fellow poster said.
We need to follow these steps to go regain our strength in prayer:
1) Realize our ugliness when we are far from God = humility
2) Remember the beauty of our previous experiences with Christ and His gentle touches
3) Blame ourselves for the hardness of our hearts
4) Repent from the bottom of the heart
5) Rise and fight for your salvation!!
My two cents.... ;D
helpmelordjesus,
I happen to have those two books by H.H. so I will definitely take a look at what he has to say in the matter.
kerestina,
Time alone to reflect is an excellent suggestion. It is something I used to do, and haven't done in ages. I think it's something I should start up again soon. And the question one should ask ourselves as we sit and contemplate is fantastic. Thanks for that.
EpNomos EnTaio,
Ah yes, the Jesus prayer. I've tried that and have stopped. I'll try working on it again.
Thank you all for your suggestions. It is much appreciated.
May God help you!
Living away from home, I was wrestling with the idea of praying with my house-mate- but I just felt he would not be up to it. He solemnly goes to Church. Now come to think of it, I missed a great opportunity.
What do you guys think?
What I am suggesting though- I am not sure it goes hand in hand with the "spark". I think the "spark" is overrated. If you pray without motivation, seeking the Lord without provocation- I think that is an act of love, thanksgiving and devotion. I am not defending the "routine attitude", but rather labouring to keep a growing routine even in the face of our greatest adversary- apathy.
I mean, your mother was not overly pleased, I am sure, to clean your diapers, your mess, clothe you, bathe you, always supervise you- but she did it anyway because she loved you- even if she did not have the motivation to do it at the time.
That's how I see it- but, I have seasons of plenty and famine with my prayers, making my views really weak.
My FOC told me everyone experience this state from time to time especially if not vigilant to improve oneself in time in matters of faith and good deeds. We may also at times get tired so easily, you need to rest your brain, then concentrate and re-organize your thoughts. Life speed, rhythm and problems lead to this.
The worse situation is to live in a state of spiritual apathy because we have false ideas of "everything looks great" or "it would never be better than that" which in essence is a kind of self-justification; or a type of spiritual inertia, floating in false "comfort" so you don't struggle anymore, a dangerous false calmness that precedes "the storm".
GBU