I live in Ethiopia and I have a boyfriend and we promised not to practice sex before marriage and we planned to get married with Holy Communion. But the problem is we started love thing I mean only kissing. I asked some friend of mine about that and he told me that kissing is not wrong but what our fathers afraid of is that it will lead u to early sex before marriage. So I need you advice on this matter.
Thank you
God bless you all
Comments
Maryam,
If you feel that the temptation will be too great for the both of you to handle, then I would suggest that you stop kissing entirely. You do not want to fall into sin, and God knows that this type of temptation is one of the strongest. If you both truly love each other and wish to remain virgins before marriage, then do not begin, or continue, doing anything that could possibly jeopardize that. Also, if you feel that the temptation becomes very strong when the two of you are alone, don't be alone together. There are several remedies to your solution. One other thing, do not forget the power of prayer. It is our lifeline to reconnect us to our Lord. Through it, we are lifted up and stand in His presences and He guards us from all temptation. During this most holy week of Pascha, try to refrain from spending so much time alone with your boyfriend and try to focus on Christ's passion. Contemplate on His sufferings and the love He has shown us and this love will grow in you. In this manner, your love for your boyfriend (and his love for you) will also grow and become purified. Remain connected to God, and nothing evil shall befall the both of you.
Please pray for me.
that awas basically the advice i was going to giv u
but i just wanted to ask you
Do you think you guys are actually going to have sex? Be honest.
God Bless
SAY, you are married.
and you met this friend of your you havent seen for a while........
and you really connect.
NOW tell me if this is acceptable or NOT
to have sex with this guy (whilst your married)
Kiss this guy (although your married)
Invite him to your home so that u may hug (while your husband is not in the house)
PLS reply becuase it will be only then will i progress to MY POINT..
SO are these actions or any of these action ACCEPTABLE OR INACCEPTABLE..that is all i need of ur answer
+WHY+
i dont exatly see where you gals are heading with your genuine enquiries but i know you are only trying to send a message in a contrcutive and useful manner, i hope you dont seriously expect AT.Maryam to respond to such personal questions............of course the actions you propose are UNACCEPTABLE.............anyone with morals and a conscience would be aware......i dont think the question is about when to have sexual intercourse with your partner, the church is clear on this........no sex before marriage......the question is when two people are involved in a deep relationship whom are considering marriage thus they are serious about committment.......one wants to know how far can i go......ie. is kissing ok?......and the answer falls into the couples hands.......can you cope with the temptation?, and just quickly....make sure the relationship isnt based on physical attachment
God bless n take care
seeing that we have agreed that such acts are inaccpetable and innapropriate based on the IDEA that he isnt your husband.
THUS WHAT EXCLUDES THE IDEA THAT YOU ARE ABLE TO HAVE SUCH 'pleasures" WHILST YOUR SINGLE> ONCE AGAIN IT IS NOT APPROPRIATE FOR YOU BECAUSE HE IS NOT YOUR HUSBAND> FULL STOP
sorry to sound rude but your problem is not whether it wil lead to sex or not but crucially whether kissing is in the first place is accpetable and i hate to break it to you , but the answer is that it isnt acceptable, whether it will lead to sex or not!
When you are married, you don't go kiss anybody but your wife/husband. It's an act that should only be done by the married couple in this case, so doesn't that mean it's an act that should only be done inside marriage? Kissing turns the body physically on (I don't think I need to give you guys a biology lesson here ;)), and unless one is really really good in controlling him/herself, it could lead to more.
Moreover, what if you break up and end up not getting married. Will you be kissing another person during engagement / dating period? And then another one?
I for one don't think I could stand before the altar and look in the eyes of my future partner, knowing I had a history of physical relation with somebody (in any form whatsoever).
My conclusion is that everybody should decide for himself.
My advice is not to rush things and keep yourself pure as much as you can untill marriage!
Can a man take fire in his bosom, and his clothes not be burned? (Proverbs 6:27)
[quote author=Hos Erof link=topic=5165.msg69537#msg69537 date=1176220465]
hard question. There's nothing wrong with it per se, but look at it this way:
There's always a but, isn't there. :D
[quote author=Hos Erof link=topic=5165.msg69537#msg69537 date=1176220465]
When you are married, you don't go kiss anybody but your wife/husband. It's an act that should only be done by the married couple in this case, so doesn't that mean it's an act that should only be done inside marriage? Kissing turns the body physically on (I don't think I need to give you guys a biology lesson here ;)), and unless one is really really good in controlling him/herself, it could lead to more.
Moreover, what if you break up and end up not getting married. Will you be kissing another person during engagement / dating period? And then another one?
I for one don't think I could stand before the altar and look in the eyes of my future partner, knowing I had a history of physical relation with somebody (in any form whatsoever).
I think there is something that one is implying here, which is not necessarily the case. When someone speaks of kissing, often the assumption is that it is on the lips. That, however, is not always the case. One can kiss a person's cheek, forehead, hand, neck (pretty much anywhere). So if we are going to talk about kissing, I think we should specify where. For a couple (any couple) a kiss on the forehead or cheek is just fine. I see nothing wrong with it, and it doesn't really turn a person on. Kisses on the lips and such should be reserved for after marriage, I'll warrant that. But, if a couple is fine with it, then so be it. God knows, we have all kissed family and friends (close friends) before, and never were 'stimulated' in any way. It is where the kiss is and the 'mood' or 'atmosphere' in which it is given which could pose certain risks.
[quote author=Hos Erof link=topic=5165.msg69537#msg69537 date=1176220465]
My conclusion is that everybody should decide for himself.
I concur. Each of us has our own mind and can make our own decisions. In the end, a couple should decide how far is too far (in regards to kissing of course).
[quote author=Hos Erof link=topic=5165.msg69537#msg69537 date=1176220465]
Can a man take fire in his bosom, and his clothes not be burned? (Proverbs 6:27)
In answer to this question: YES! ;D
I was talking about kissing with capital K, kissing on the cheek is quite innocent and even very normal in in most cultures in the west. In our church a lot of boy's/girls greet eachother that way, and there's nothing wrong with it. It depends on the culture though, ya3ni in Egypt you can't really greet someone of the opposite gender like that and I have no clue what the norm is in Amerika!
Anywayz, I think our discussion is not about these minor kissing acts (by lack of better wording), right?
[quote author=Hos Erof link=topic=5165.msg69541#msg69541 date=1176223855]
Ommal e7na kona benetkalem 3an eh? ;D
Sada2nee ma'ana 3aref! ;)
[quote author=Hos Erof link=topic=5165.msg69541#msg69541 date=1176223855]
I was talking about kissing with capital K, kissing on the cheek is quite innocent and even very normal in in most cultures in the west. In our church a lot of boy's/girls greet eachother that way, and there's nothing wrong with it. It depends on the culture though, ya3ni in Egypt you can't really greet someone of the opposite gender like that and I have no clue what the norm is in Amerika!
Anywayz, I think our discussion is not about these minor kissing acts (by lack of better wording), right?
Well in the case of kissing on the lips, again, it is at the discretion of the couple. If they are comfortable with kissing on the lips, then go for it. If at any point the temptation becomes too strong though, then it should definitely be stopped.
Moreover, what if you break up and end up not getting married. Will you be kissing another person during engagement / dating period? And then another one?
I for one don't think I could stand before the altar and look in the eyes of my future partner, knowing I had a history of physical relation with somebody (in any form whatsoever).
My conclusion is that everybody should decide for himself.
My advice is not to rush things and keep yourself pure as much as you can untill marriage!
Can a man take fire in his bosom, and his clothes not be burned? (Proverbs 6:27)
I think this is a very good answer i agree with you.basically when u kiss someone u feel something and God's word says "we are God's temple 2chorentians 6:16.We have to keep our soul and body clean.otherwise how can we take holy communion if we are not clean??
and also no matter how strong(spritually) a person is,they will be tempted.
pray for me.
If kissing did not feel good no one would have the desire to do it. Like everything else in life there is a time and a season for everything. Kissing a guy who is not your husband is definitely wrong no matter how good it felt. Since you felt good this implies that you would not mind doing it again! And when you do it again, this ‘affection’ will not stop at kissing but you will desire more intimacy and as St. James says, "But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death" (James 1:14).
When you kiss you are allowing a guy to have privilege over your body. This privilege should be given only to your husband and no one else. The Holy Bible says, "Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are" (1 Cor 3:16-17). God wants us to seek guidance form scriptural truth not feelings. Affection or love looks beyond personal desires and the momentary gratification of the senses. It looks at the big picture: serving others and glorifying God. Do not think of what you want, but at what God wants.
this partially supports why's response
The title of your post gives you the answer to your question. If you think you are doing something wrong that is your conscience telling you that you are.
What do you think your parents and his parents would say to you if you asked them? What would your priest say if you confessed this to him?
Your question tells me that you are a good Christian young woman with a great deal of honesty and a good and pure heart. Your young man is fortunate to have a young woman like you, and if he loves you as you love him, he will respect you and your wishes. If you say to him that you think you should not kiss because you fear it may lead to other things, you are doing the right thing. Your conscience will be clear; your parents (and his) will be proud of you; your priest will approve; and even more important than that, your conscience, which is the voice of God inside you, will tell you you are doing right.
Your young man will also be proud to have such a virtuous young woman as his special friend. It sounds to me, from what you write, that this is where your conscience is telling you to go. There are always temptations to do the wrong thing; you can, with prayer - and help - do the right thing. It will feel good.
I hope that is helpful: it is the advice I give to my own daughters - who are 20 and 24 years old.
In Christ,
John
Dear John,
I was hoping you would post in this thread and I'm glad you did. You are a wise father and your daughters are blessed to have you.
[coptic]+ Pi`<rictoc aftonf>[/coptic] I totally disagree with this statement. What sort of privilege are you granting over your body? This isn't sex we are talking about, it's a kiss. Sex is when you allow another person to have privilege over your body, as sex is a very physical act. But a kiss? Come on. A kiss would perhaps constitute a 'tender' moment or something, but nothing more. Kiss is nothing but a kiss and shouldn't be thought of as anything more. That being said, if you are weak in your spiritual life and know you stumble easily, then obviously you should not expose yourself to any added temptation. But to go so far as to make a statement like the above one, is a bit over the top.
good for you son........but as i stated before hand this was the response to a simialr question asked not my opinion................although i agree with the essence of the response that since a kiss is pleasurable, you would be tempted to do it agian and again and what kind of realtionship is that, based on kisses. A kiss is not just a kiss..dont you see a kiss as special, something you want to share with that special person and not just every guy or gurl you meet...we, well im not talking about the kiss on the cheek but the french kiss which is demonstrated on tv so often.........we all have strengths and weakness and inevitably fall into temptation.........
[coptic]+ Pi`<rictoc aftonf>[/coptic] First off, was this really necessary. I'll tell you the same thing I told vassillios: I am not your son and do not refer to me as such again.
ok firstly i didnt literally refer to you as son.....my apolgies for offending you with my terminology.....how about buddy? is that cool?.............. Regardless of whether this was your own opinion or not, I still disagree with that statement.
ok fair enough but i think your reading into it too much Yes, a kiss is just a kiss. It only becomes something more when it is shared with someone who is truly special to you. As for the french kiss, while very popular on television, as you point out, most respectable couples I have seen rarely, if ever french each other. That's probably one of the more 'lustful' (if you will) ways to kiss a person.
a kiss has become just a kiss becoz thats how society views..........who cares, go ahead go kiss anyone...........you have adopted societies view which says a relationship isnt a real relatiosnhip without the kissing and hands holding
as st paul says, marriage should be honoured by all, thus the way in which special 'encounters' throughout a marriage should be kept sacred by ALL, single and NOT single, thus what God has preserved between a husband and wife should be honoured between husband and wife.
Κηφᾶς, although the bible does not mention the word dating or kissing, the bible does not recommend it namingly the verse that i provided above written by st paul, thus u have adopted societies view that st paul has strong discouraged.
+WHY+
The advice you are giving is surely correct.
Miss Maryam's culture is, thankfully, a good deal less morally relaxed than that we are accustomed to in the west, and her own attitude seems entirely sensible and most becoming a young Christian.
We should not, perhaps, need to go into the intricacies of kissing on this forum; as you say, a respectful and affectionate kiss is perfectly acceptable, and nothing she has said suggests there is anything else going on.
If she, and her young man, show a proper respect for themselves, for their parents, and for the teachings of their Church, they will not go wrong. Of course we are all aware that young men have strong feelings, but it is good discipline for them to restrain those feelings; it also shows a proper respect for their young woman; would they really want to have a relationship with a young woman who did not show respect for herself and her virtue? Of course they wouldn't, and so they should never put any young woman in a situation where they feel uncomfortable.
Young men (and I have three sons as well as two daughters) have to learn to treat all women as they would have their own sisters treated; that is with respect and honour. Too often, especially in the west and in societies which have access to the western media, women are treated with little respect; men should remember that when they disrespect women, they are disrespecting someone' daughter, sister, and someone's future mother. You do not prove you are a man by behaving in a disrespectful manner to a woman; you prove it by having respect for them - and for yourself and your parents - as well as for her and her parents.
Of course there are those outside the Church who will think this very old-fashioned; but I would invite them to look at the effects of 'modern' secular behaviour on young people and to say whether those who behave in a disrespectful way are, thereby, made any happier?
Miss Maryam's attitude, and her willingness to seek advice, is one that we should encourage; her parents are, I am sure, proud of her. So can we, perhaps, have a little less discussion of matters which are best kept to a private forum - if they are to be discussed in public at all? Kissing is a very private matter between loving individuals, and should be kept that way.
In Christ,
John
is losing your virginity before marriage really seem that big of an issue to you just message me back if u want to answer
I realize I haven't responded to this in a while, I guess it just slipped my mind.
[quote author=why link=topic=5165.msg69653#msg69653 date=1176378966]
well as i heard from a sermon, the same way such acts is wrong inside a marriage (with someone thats not your husband simply becuase u only do that between husband and wife), the same way it is when ur not in marriage (living a single life for the same reason becuase that belongs within a marriage, between you and your husband)
How can you compare what one does when one is single to what one does when one is in a committed relationship (that's a lot of 'ones'). When you are married, you and your spouse become one flesh, and thus you are not entitled to do anything outside the bonds of marriage. When you are single, you are in no such situation and thus are 'freer', if you will, to behave in a manner that you could not do if you were married.
[quote author=why link=topic=5165.msg69653#msg69653 date=1176378966]
as st paul says, marriage should be honoured by all, thus the way in which special 'encounters' throughout a marriage should be kept sacred by ALL, single and NOT single, thus what God has preserved between a husband and wife should be honoured between husband and wife.
Κηφᾶς, although the bible does not mention the word dating or kissing, the bible does not recommend it namingly the verse that i provided above written by st paul, thus u have adopted societies view that st paul has strong discouraged.
I'm not arguing that marriage should not be honoured. I fail to see how you dishonour marriage by kissing a person when you are not married to begin with. Paul is speaking specifically about marriage, and how couples should behave when they are married. As you say, dating is not mentioned at all, and so I fail to see how my adoption of societal views is discouraged by Paul.
Maryam its really nice that you found someone like this and that you are happy with him i dont think you should stop the kissing entirely but just tone it down a little talk more and maybe it'll get your mind off the early sex if you are about to get married soon i think that it will be more worth it when you wait but i have to ask you something first...
is losing your virginity before marriage really seem that big of an issue to you just message me back if u want to answer
It is really nice to have all these advaice. And I want to thank u all in the name of God. And to answer ur question losing my virginity before marraige is not a big deal for me. The big issue is to do sex before marraige it is because our church forbid sex before marraige and that is why I don't want to do things.
Thanks
God belss u all
Can I say how very impressed I am with your Christian attitude to these things? Your parents must be rightly proud of their daughter - and your future husband is a fortunate young man.
May He be with you and watch over you,
In Christ,
John
[coptic]+ Iryny nem `hmot>[/coptic]
Maryam,
If you feel that the temptation will be too great for the both of you to handle, then I would suggest that you stop kissing entirely. You do not want to fall into sin, and God knows that this type of temptation is one of the strongest. If you both truly love each other and wish to remain virgins before marriage, then do not begin, or continue, doing anything that could possibly jeopardize that. Also, if you feel that the temptation becomes very strong when the two of you are alone, don't be alone together. There are several remedies to your solution. One other thing, do not forget the power of prayer. It is our lifeline to reconnect us to our Lord. Through it, we are lifted up and stand in His presences and He guards us from all temptation. During this most holy week of Pascha, try to refrain from spending so much time alone with your boyfriend and try to focus on Christ's passion. Contemplate on His sufferings and the love He has shown us and this love will grow in you. In this manner, your love for your boyfriend (and his love for you) will also grow and become purified. Remain connected to God, and nothing evil shall befall the both of you.
Please pray for me.
THis is very wise advice. Its also good that you ask. I think its a problem most people have, and it leads them to marriage.
I still have to say , if you agree to get married, then what's the rush? live in purity and chastity as far as possible, and then get married and kiss all u want!? non?
I read your comments. Im truely thankful to God to have you part of our Church. Shall i speak to Abouna to get you into our Sunday School service??
I totally agree with what u said : 11000%.
If u feel u are doing something wrong, then its wrong! For sure!!
Controlling yourselves before marriage is not old fashioned at all. Its very wise. Its stuff like this that make you realise that you are Christian, and not Egyptian/English/French. Keeping the purity in our hearts, and guarding our bodies in that they are the temple of the Holy Spirit are part of the life of anyone Christian.
I think also it says a lot about someone who tries to respect your body as the temple of the holy Spirit. If he knows theology or not, or knows the tasbeha or not, it shows that he cares about the purity of your soul and body.
[quote author=Anglian link=topic=5165.msg69665#msg69665 date=1176384490]
Dear Κηφᾶς
The advice you are giving is surely correct.
Miss Maryam's culture is, thankfully, a good deal less morally relaxed than that we are accustomed to in the west, and her own attitude seems entirely sensible and most becoming a young Christian.
We should not, perhaps, need to go into the intricacies of kissing on this forum; as you say, a respectful and affectionate kiss is perfectly acceptable, and nothing she has said suggests there is anything else going on.
If she, and her young man, show a proper respect for themselves, for their parents, and for the teachings of their Church, they will not go wrong. Of course we are all aware that young men have strong feelings, but it is good discipline for them to restrain those feelings; it also shows a proper respect for their young woman; would they really want to have a relationship with a young woman who did not show respect for herself and her virtue? Of course they wouldn't, and so they should never put any young woman in a situation where they feel uncomfortable.
Young men (and I have three sons as well as two daughters) have to learn to treat all women as they would have their own sisters treated; that is with respect and honour. Too often, especially in the west and in societies which have access to the western media, women are treated with little respect; men should remember that when they disrespect women, they are disrespecting someone' daughter, sister, and someone's future mother. You do not prove you are a man by behaving in a disrespectful manner to a woman; you prove it by having respect for them - and for yourself and your parents - as well as for her and her parents.
Of course there are those outside the Church who will think this very old-fashioned; but I would invite them to look at the effects of 'modern' secular behaviour on young people and to say whether those who behave in a disrespectful way are, thereby, made any happier?
Miss Maryam's attitude, and her willingness to seek advice, is one that we should encourage; her parents are, I am sure, proud of her. So can we, perhaps, have a little less discussion of matters which are best kept to a private forum - if they are to be discussed in public at all? Kissing is a very private matter between loving individuals, and should be kept that way.
In Christ,
John
What maybe something tender for you, could be very provacative for someone else. I do see that a kiss is just a kiss.. its harmless - but huge sins start off by small harmless events.
It says in the Bible :"David looked...". Before you know it, not even 1 page after this phrase, and he's already committed adultary and planned to kill the woman he "just looked at".
All this BALAWEE from "a look". Who could have imagined that the prophet God selected to be King of His people would end up committing murder and adultary... yet, it started off as "a look".
What's OK for you, its fine; but if someone feels that a kiss is more than a kiss for them, they should be allowed to execise their conscience and act according to what they feel is right. Its when we tell them "no.. look, INTERCOURSE is wrong,but kissing is OK... ".. then it becomes a mess because where do you draw the line? Perhaps a kiss will be a french kiss? perhaps this is OK? Perhaps a kiss on the lips is OK so long as you are "sure " of the other person... its best to let someone's conscience speak and direct them. If your conscience is not affected by a "kiss" - then great. But this girl who wrote in, she was affected by a kiss, to the extent that John the ANglican/Orthodox gentleman even pointed out that she's answered her own question because of the title she used : "I think i'm doing something wrong?".
[quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=5165.msg69586#msg69586 date=1176304207]
[coptic]+ Pi`<rictoc aftonf>[/coptic] I totally disagree with this statement. What sort of privilege are you granting over your body? This isn't sex we are talking about, it's a kiss. Sex is when you allow another person to have privilege over your body, as sex is a very physical act. But a kiss? Come on. A kiss would perhaps constitute a 'tender' moment or something, but nothing more. Kiss is nothing but a kiss and shouldn't be thought of as anything more. That being said, if you are weak in your spiritual life and know you stumble easily, then obviously you should not expose yourself to any added temptation. But to go so far as to make a statement like the above one, is a bit over the top.
vassilios,
I agree with everything you have said, and you will find in my posts that I repeatedly emphasis that this sort of interaction depends strongly on the individual. The fragment of my quote that you selected dealt specifically with the general notion that a kiss is somehow granting privilege over one's body. I strongly object to that idea for the reasons I have explained in the quote. Again, the statements I made are not meant to be taken as a green light for everybody. Not all people have a strong spiritual footing, and so are easily tempted in these matters.
[coptic]+ Pi`<rictoc aftonf>[/coptic]
vassilios,
I agree with everything you have said, and you will find in my posts that I repeatedly emphasis that this sort of interaction depends strongly on the individual. The fragment of my quote that you selected dealt specifically with the general notion that a kiss is somehow granting privilege over one's body. I strongly object to that idea for the reasons I have explained in the quote. Again, the statements I made are not meant to be taken as a green light for everybody. Not all people have a strong spiritual footing, and so are easily tempted in these matters.
Im glad you wrote back, I didnt think u meant it for everyone literally, but it was vague, and I wanted to stress that it would not be wise to even think that a kiss is a kiss for everyone.
Furthermore, it gives me a chance to mention: We say in the CHurch :"Kiss one another with a holy kiss". Why then do people get complexed when they write in and say "I kissed a man, is that bad? Am i doing something wrong". Its strange, we give each other a holy kiss before God's alter... and no one feels bad. It is due to what's in your heart when u kissed someone - it meant it wasn't "holy". Was it?
So, for Knfoc to NOT see what is wrong with a kiss, its a good sign of his spiritual level in fact: that there's a certain purity in his thoughts/heart where he doesnt perhaps see anything wrong.