Hello all.
I have a question; but it would be great if there was a Coptic priest here or bishop that could answer these questions ?
I was looking at the Coptic Church in Nairobi, and realised that they celebrate the mass with drums, clapping hands, dancing a bit even. Now, my question isnt :"Oh! Can we dance too?" No.. no..
Now, the bishop of Africa, may the Lord preserve His life, was saying that they respected the culture of the african tribes in kenya, and accepted that they will not only do the mass in Swahili, but use the musical culture that goes with it to celebrate the mass.
This is a great sign of respect for the kenyan copts.
THe Coptic mass has adapted to the language and culture of the diaspora - in Kenya.
So, my question is: would it be reasonable in doing this in other countries such as France and the UK, where the mass can be tailored in that language: i.e. have hymns etc in that language with the musical scale associated it with???
In France, we don't speak coptic, there's no one in Church that really understands it, and if they do speak it, they don't pronounce it correctly even. Wouldnt it be better then just to have a mass in French, with French Orthodox songs. Keeping the same coptic melody, but changing the words to french HONESTLY does not work. I mean.... if we do not encourage the use of musical instruments during the mass so as we do not lose concentration or respect for the Eucharist, then such songs can be a distraction as it takes more effort to understand what's being sung because its not soo clear when sung in an oriental/coptic quarter-tone musical scale.
What do you all think??
I stress that this is a discussion, and its something i'd like to discuss. I know how zealous many of you are here concerning the Coptic language, and Coptic hymns, but at the end of the day, isnt Coptic just a language we use to express our faith??? [Like any other language].
Comments
Second point, there's a huge difference between us and the swahili people. We were born copts (ie egyptians) and got used to the coptic tunes and heard all the hymns since we were in our mothers womb. So consequently its not a big deal (in my opinion) to chant the hymns in coptic (as goes with a great number of our hymns). Swahili people are people with their own culture, own language, totally different than ours, so it's nothing but fair to let them use their own form of worship.
So consequently, i dont see them as copts, they are just swahili oriental orthodox people.
Third point, considering the huge globalisation thats going on in the world, the coptic hymns that we use in our liturgy are a huge advantage. I can go to any coptic church in the world, and be able to follow up with the liturgy.
Last point, I dont know about the youth in your church, but if i were going to tell them we are not chanting hiten anymore in the coptic tune, and will use the txt on some other non oriental musical scale with a piano, they'd take the cymbals and throw them at me. I honestly never ever heard anybody complain about the musical scales, that it makes hymns hard to understand, because - as i pointed out before - we grew up with these tunes.
The last point i'd like to make is that it COULD be difficult for new comers (ie in ur country french people, in my country dutch people etc) to adjust to our musical scale, because for them it is indeed foreign.
That's easily solved, actually in france its solved already, because u have this "french branch" of the coptic church (for actual french people) under the leadership of HG metropolitian anba Marcos and HG bisschop anba Athanasius. In england there's also an british orthodox church. Some converts btw dont even mind adjusting to our musical scales: we have dutch people in our church who love our coptic hymns and melodies, and hate it when we chant in dutch.
So in short, i really dont see the problem in the first place lol.
Sorry for the long post, i usually dont post this quantity of txt ;D
-matt-
God Bless and Pray for me and my weakness
Its just... i don't know, i think Coptic is just a language.. that no one who is coptic really understands.
I also think that Coptic really is just a language, and that the content is what really matters. But I also agree with the other point stated that Coptic hymns generally don't sound good(maybe "fitting" is a better word) when translated into english, arabic, french, swahilii etc.. So all in all i think the coptic language works strictly for the coptic people, no more, no less, people who dont understand or like coptic will have to find an alternative, (an alternative that i can't think of right now...) :-\
The coptic hymns of the Liturgical services dont change, period. It's integrated in our most heavenly orthodox sacramental life, and i don't see any reason to change it. Why do people (in the diaspora) see the coptic language as an obstacle? Does anybody in Egypt see it that way? no, all the copts in egypt understand only arabic, and they still chant the hiteni's in coptic.
As for the spiritual songs, my believe is that any song can be used as long as it does not contain lerics that are contra-orthodox. Of course they should be chanted in its due time and not instead of coptic hymns during liturgical services.
Some people (especially girls :P, speaking of generalisation) just like protestant songs, and that's not wrong. I mean, this is not just something in the diaspora, look how the egyptian people love all the arabic protestant songs (and regular orthodox songs, i'm sure u people all grew up with songs like "knesti knesti knesti" etc ;D...)
In the mean time there should be effort to teach people the spirituality of hymns and the tunes etc.
Conclusion: both hymns and songs go together in its due time, and that is the way i see it practised my whole life...whats the big deal here?