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why can't we take communiun at the greek orthodox church?

spr418spr418
edited December 1969 in Non-Orthodox Inquiries
well..thats my question!!

GBU
sandra

Comments

  • Marianne87Marianne87
    because the coptic church is not in agreement with the greek orthodox...therefore the church doesn't recommend that we take communion in their church.
  • spr418spr418
    what do you mean by agreement?...we are both orthodox and we basicaly believe in the same exact things..don't we??

    GBU
    sandra
  • marysmarys
    if it's a question of "can".. sure, you can do whatever u want.. freewill.. but it is it right? only if they're from our sister churches (syrian, armenian, indian, eritrian, ethiopian [there might be another one] ) if not.. then no
    the disagreement occurs in details that revolve around the different councils, excommunications, and details on which i'm not too sure off..
  • RonyRony
    "The Eastern Orthodox Church (encompassing national Orthodox jurisdictions such as Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, etc.—see Eastern Orthodox Church organization) is a body of Christians which claims origins extending directly back to Jesus and his Apostles through unbroken Apostolic Succession. Its doctrines were formalized through a series of church councils, the most authoritative being the Seven Ecumenical Councils held between the 4th and 8th centuries. These councils were convened out of the necessity to resolve conflicts that had developed concerning beliefs such as Arianism, Nestorianism, and Monothelitism. Toward the end of its first thousand years of existence differences developed between the Church in the Eastern and Western Roman Empire that ultimately led to the Great Schism in 1054, dividing Chalcedonian Christianity into Western Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy.

    The present-day influence of the Orthodox Church encompasses the territories associated with the former Byzantine and Russian empires: Eastern Europe, Asia (Russia/Siberia), and parts of the Middle East and Africa. Today, although Orthodoxy's strongest influence can be seen in Greece, Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Serbia and Montenegro, Romania, Bulgaria, and Georgia, the Orthodox Church has a presence in a great many other countries largely because of the emigration of Orthodox peoples, with large communities in the USA, Canada and Australia."

    (excerpted from
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Orthodoxy )

    Western Orthodoxy is a strand of Orthodox Christian worship adapted for congregations in traditionally Catholic or Protestant countries.

    There are certain parishes known as Western Orthodox within Eastern Orthodoxy that follow the rituals of either:

    Episcopalian (about 2/3rds of the AWRV parishes, using the Liturgy of St. Tikhon, a modification of the 1928 American Book of Common Prayer); or
    Roman Catholic Churches (about 1/3rd of the AWRV parishes, and one ROCOR monastery, using the Liturgy of St. Gregory, similar to the Tridentine Mass and usually of the Benedictine or Curial use).
    Anglican (one ROCOR monastery, and a few ROCOR parishes, using the Sarum use of the Roman rite or the English rite, a modification of the 1549 English Book of Common Prayer.)
    Gallican (the churches of the French Orthodox, canonically isolated from the rest of the Orthodox during the past decade, using a reconstructed liturgy based upon Gallican documents.)
    By far the largest group of these parishes in the United States and Canada is represented by the Western Rite Vicariate of the North American Archdiocese of the Antiochian Orthodox Church, which has neither autocephaly (complete hierarchical independence) nor autonomy (governance of internal affairs, but its primate is appointed by and answerable to a parent jurisdiction's synod), but reports ultimately to the Patriarch of Antioch. The Patriarchate of Antioch also has a few Western Rite Orthodox missions in New Zealand. The Holy Orthodox Catholic and Apostolic Church in America has 10 parishes and 2 monasteries throughout the United States and continue to add new parishes each year as more and more people learn about the Western-Rite. The Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia (ROCOR) also has a small number of Western-Rite parishes and monasteries located in the United States, Brazil, and Australia. A few French Orthodox parishes in France and the United States are currently in talks with the Serbian Orthodox Church with the goal of regularizing their canonical status once again.

    One can with difficulty compare the situation of Western Orthodox parishes with the analogous status of autonomous Eastern-Rite Catholic churches. For centuries, there have been hierarchical churches in full communion with the Vatican, but which the Pope allows to follow customs and rules like those of the Eastern Orthodox Church (e.g., they confirm newly baptized infants via chrismation, they have married priests, and they have iconostases. With the Western Rite Orthodox the situation differs, in that their communities are all under the local Byzantine rite Orthodox bishops, and they share Orthodox theology though they retain the rituals, culture, language, ethos and ornaments of Western civilization.

    (excerpted from
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Orthodoxy )
  • spr418spr418
    thanks rony and marys for this explanation..i got it!!
    GBU
    sandra
  • nene0587nene0587
    .
  • Marianne87Marianne87
    Eritrian Orthodox
  • Luke90Luke90
    No, the Russian Orthodox Church isn't Oriental Orthodox, they're Eastern Orthodox, but still, they're closer to us then Catholics or Protestants right.
  • nene0587nene0587
    .
  • Jesus85Jesus85
    The Oriental Orthodox family of churches includes Alexandria (the national Church under the leadership of H.H. Pope Shenouda III since 1971), Ethiopia, Eretria, Antioch(currently under the leadership of Mar Ignatius Zaka Awas I), India (Malankara),
    Armenia (Etchmiadzin and Antelias), for a total of seven churches.

    if anyone needs anymore information about christian denominations, here is some very thorough information:

    http://www.suscopts.org/servantsprep/pdf/2005/CMP102_ChristianDenominations.pdf
  • socoolbishoysocoolbishoy

    why can't we take communiun at the greek orthodox church?

    I know you got the answer you need... but why can’t we commune in any other church except the oriental orthodox churches? and one of the major reasons is that communion is the union of the church, as a body of Christ, and is a union of faith... thus if you commune in a catholic church... you agree to their decree... and since we are not in communication... you would be excommunicating yourself from the Coptic church... thus if you commune in the Greek church... which we are not in communication with... you would be excommunicating yourself from the Coptic church... so pretty much you excommunicate yourself by yourself...
  • nene0587nene0587
    .
  • Marianne87Marianne87
    Well I went to a catholic school..and I took communion not knowing the difference yet.
    Christ, being a merciful God, won't judge you on things you do out of ignorance. When we are young, we don't know the right from the wrong. And also, in confession and in our prayers, we pray for what we did knowingly and UNknownigly (sp?)
  • nene0587nene0587
    lol i was confused about the spelling too
  • tiastias
    maybe a simple answer...
    in this topic I would like to make a compare with the protestant-catholic issue in Northern Ireland.

    Why are we looking for differences here... The world would be a lot better if everyone started to look after the equals of different groups.

    I you feel comfortable in a greek-orthodox church, why won't you take communiun there? If you feel uncomfortable: don't! My opinion is that you'd better lead yourself by own feeling, than by the meaning of others.

  • Marianne87Marianne87
    It's not about being "comfortable"..if you feel comfortable doing a sin...would you do it. I am not saying taking communion is a sin...but it's something the church doesn't advice a person to do. Because if you go and take communion with that church and that church then you are agreeing with all of that....and there is clearly differences between each church....so you can't just go and say i am comfortable taking communion with that church.
  • Mina GhattasMina Ghattas
    the greeks r calcedonians or somthin like that and we r non calcedonians ??
  • AdeodatusAdeodatus
    lol nice answer i couldnt have said it any better :D
  • Unknown
    [quote author=tias link=board=12;threadid=3020;start=15#msg52488 date=1144874064]

    I you feel comfortable in a greek-orthodox church, why won't you take communiun there? If you feel uncomfortable: don't!


    Feeling comfortable does not mean the priest will give you Holy Communion. If he has not seen you before he is likely to ask you whether you are Orthodox (by which he means Chalcedonian), you could say yes of course, but lying only seconds before recieving the Body and Blood of Christ is hardly a good thing to do.
  • ZoxsasiZoxsasi
    [quote author=Orthodox11 link=topic=3020.msg53317#msg53317 date=1146101722]
    [quote author=tias link=board=12;threadid=3020;start=15#msg52488 date=1144874064]

    I you feel comfortable in a greek-orthodox church, why won't you take communiun there? If you feel uncomfortable: don't!


    Feeling comfortable does not mean the priest will give you Holy Communion. If he has not seen you before he is likely to ask you whether you are Orthodox (by which he means Chalcedonian), you could say yes of course, but lying only seconds before recieving the Body and Blood of Christ is hardly a good thing to do.


    I was in a city where the closest church to me a Russian Orthodox Church.

    I told the priest that I was Coptic, and whether I could have the Holy Communion. He said it was OK , and that "(he) would never reject a Coptic Orthodox Christian".

    In fact, he continued to say "There are many Coptic Orthodox Christians in my Church anyway".

    And was he right! It was packed with Coptic Christians.

    What exactly is so bad if we have communion there?
  • peterfarringtonpeterfarrington
    There are many Churches around the world where EO are communed by OO and OO are communed by EO.

    If we have already agreed that the EO are Orthodox then it seems problematic to priests I know around the world to refuse communion to someone that our Churches have considered Orthodox just because there are other political aspects to take care of.

    Father Peter
  • IoannesIoannes
    It goes all the way back to the confusion of the 2nd Council of Ephesus and the 4th council, in which Leo, the arch-heretic, deceived the people and ousted Alexandria from power. We are in agreement, they just dont know it. We defined the nature of Christ the exact same way as St. Cyril, in the fourth council. While they rejected our definition, they at the same time accept St. Cyrils definition in the 3rd council. It is confusion on their part and is perpetuated by the monks of Athos who are slowly becoming more segregated due to their extreme beliefs and other controversies.

    It really doesnt matter though, let God sort it out. We should not be focused on unity with other churches but keeping those that we have in our church, as many seem to becoming more confused with foreign theology.

    Just my usual abrasive opinion.
  • Christforlife7Christforlife7
    I saw this thread come back on an awesome day, so I thought I would comment.

    I went to Vespers, held by OCF (Orthodox Christian Fellowship), for the first time today. The Abouna was of the Greek Jurisdiction, but I must say it was awesome. Our prayers are so similar, I felt right at home. As many are, I continue to pray for our complete unity in the coming future. We have such a beautiful Orthodox faith, and need to work together to spread it rather than push each other away.

    What made me smile the most is the lack of ignorance of the Eastern Orthodox people there today. Since I was the only Oriental person to show up so far, they welcomed me very warmly. Also on their own, they mentioned that they firmly knew our faiths and Theologies are one. "We are brothers in the Faith".

    That's my two cents, that Orthodoxy is beautiful. The purest and most tested faith given to us by our Lord, Himself. 

    :)
  • ZoxsasiZoxsasi
    Ioannes,

    What is so "foreign" about the Greek Orthodox Theology. You know very well that there are no differences between us.

    When what divides is "political" and not theological, then I cannot see why we, the congregation, should not take communion there when we have no Churches of our own in the same city.

    What's the problem with that?

    You know very well that the Greeks, if you tell them that we are Miaphysite, they well respond and say "NO! We are Miaphysite, and you (Copts) are Monophysite".

    OK.. they have a problem accepting the fact that we are miaphysite, but we love and accept ourselves as miaphysite, so what then is the problem??

    Its not as if i'm going into the Greek Orthodox Church denying my Coptic Orthodox faith - is it? What part of my Coptic Orthodox faith is not shared with the Greek Orthodox Church?
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