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St. Justina's name in Coptic

kyrollos faheemkyrollos faheem
edited December 1969 in Hymns Discussion
Hello everyone,

For correctness' sake, I was wondering if St. Justina's name is pronounced as "Justina" with an "a" at the end or "Justini" with an "i" at the end, in Coptic. For the other female saints, we say their names as Demiana and Marina but in Coptic, they are pronounced as "Demiani" and "Marini" so I was wondering if the rule for these saints also applies to her name as well. Thank you.

Comments

  • Jojo_HannaJojo_Hanna
    I’ve heard various things about this haha, id like to see what everyone has to say...
  • ophadeceophadece
    The correct pronunciation of ⲏ at the end of saints' names is an "a"
    Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ Ⲡϭⲥ
  • Jojo_HannaJojo_Hanna
    @opha, would you mind rewording that, please?
  • ophadeceophadece
    So basically you would find Ⲧⲩⲙⲓⲁⲛⲏ which is pronounced /demjana/, Ⲓⲱⲗⲓⲁⲛⲏ /joljana/, Ⲙⲁⲣⲓⲛⲏ /marina/, etc..
    Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ Ⲡϭⲥ
  • Jojo_HannaJojo_Hanna
    So it would be Iostini? (Yostina)?
  • ophadeceophadece
    I don't know how to spell the saint's name in Coptic but I guess it would end with an ⲏ and follow the same rule as the other names..
    Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ Ⲡϭⲥ
  • minamakar
    I think there is a new trend to change the spelling from ⲏ to ⲁ to help match the modern pronunciation. You can see in Coptic Reader for St. Marina sometimes they write it as Ⲙⲁⲣⲓⲛⲁ and sometimes as Ⲙⲁⲣⲓⲛⲏ. Personally, I agree with ophadece and think the more correct spelling would be with the ⲏ. But you can write it as either Ⲓⲟⲩⲥⲧⲓⲛⲁ or Ⲓⲟⲩⲥⲧⲓⲛⲏ.
  • ophadeceophadece
    Thanks @minamakar.. It is wrong in my opinion to spell it as Ⲙⲁⲣⲓⲛⲁ, this is Coptic not English. Pretty much like it would be wrong to spell Joseph as Jozef, this is English not Polish..
    Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ Ⲡϭⲥ
  • ophadeceophadece
    And by the way there is new trend to change everything since it is always easier to follow the wrong in common usage than stand up for the correct that is not easily believed (ie Greco-Bohairic vs authentic Bohairic) [الخطأ الشائع أو الصواب المهمل]. Just consult old texts for Shihat (not shiheet) Abu Fana (not veni), and Bola/Bawla (not bavly or worse still pavly) in addition to the above examples..
    Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ Ⲡϭⲥ
  • mabsootamabsoota
    i was wondering how many days it would take for this reply!
    ;-)

    as you say, it is like calling a british person jozef because the polish spelling is easier!
    or, because tant calls the priest 'abouna beeter', you actually start writing 'peter' with a 'b' because an egyptian person has taken the english version of the name 'boutros'.

    (when i first heard that name, i wondered who the priest was beating...)
  • ophadeceophadece
    Exactly as you say @mabsoota it is inherent in the Egyptian (= Coptic tongue) to be unable to pronounce the /p/.. I laughed when you are talking about the beater priest.. Hehe.. Beating his chest like the tax collector I guess.. Hehe..
    Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ Ⲡϭⲥ
  • mabsootamabsoota
    his name is 'peter', but yes, he is very humble!
  • Daniel_Kyrillos
    @mabsoots to me, “abouna beeter” sounds like someone I want to keep my priests away from :D

    On a related note, I feel like it’s worth noting that we do sometimes say an English/Arabic name instead of the original Coptic- the Pope.
    We rarely said “Shenouti” and I think never “Senoteyo” for H.H. Pope Shenouda III- in the papal hymns, “Shenouda” was said (and with a d, not a t, meaning it was just an insertion of the Arabic word). We also do this for bishop’s names- we don’t say His Grace Anba Peter’s name as “Abba Petros” in the hymns, we say “Abba Peter”.
  • ophadeceophadece
    Shenouda is the correct Coptic pronunciation of Ϣⲉⲛⲟⲩϯ. There is no Arabic word or name even near to that sound.
    Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ Ⲡϭⲥ
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