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Nikhora and Meghalo

matthewgundy
edited September 2015 in Hymns Discussion
Is the hymn Nikhora the same hymn as Meghalo just with different words? Also, can it be said during communion of the wedding of Cana of Galilee or just after the Syneixar?

Comments

  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    Yes for the first question.
    And, I am not sure about the second question, but i would say Yes also because it's considered just a hymn for the feast.
  • ophadeceophadece
    Shara bastawros,
    No, nekhora is not exactly the same as meghalo. It borrows quite a bit but not completely the same.
    Yes most if not all of the ceremonial hymns can be said during communion. For example bebnewma, owran enshosho, etc..
    Oujai khan ebshois
  • dg920
    Nikhora is not the same as Meghalo. The beginning of it is the same as meghalo, then the repeating part is like a piece of abekran. However it is a different hymn with its own tune. 

    Yes it can be said after the synaxarium, in communion, and also in the sacrament of the wedding.
  • matthewgundy
    when can it be said in the sacrament of the wedding?

  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    It should be said instead or with Pi-epnevma. 
  • dg920
    Originally the wedding was split into three sections. Pipnevma should be said at the time of crowning of the husband and wife. Nikhora before the gospel. But again this is based on the wedding today. The original rite is a bit different
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    @dg920...Would it surprise you to know that piepnevma was not in either of the 3 sections in the original rite?
  • dg920
    @minatasgeel yes and no. A lot of times especially with bibnewma it was assumed to be a part of the rite even when it wasn't written or doesn't have a necessary explanation. Ordination and Reception of priests too and others. Generally it seems that it can be prayed in any sacrament lol
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    edited September 2015
    I am not so sure i am comfortable with that reasoning. the marriage sacrament is different priests ordination or bishops in which the ordained is given a specific grace/gift to pass on the Holy Spirit to those who are they baptizing.  

    It just, i disagree with that whole idea of saying pi-epnevma at the crowning part of the service. I don't mind bringing it into the service--rites change and i can accept that. The only reason i am getting for this change is "the Holy Spirit dwells at that moment"...which is not a good enough reason and in a way, a weak argument, (1) because the Spirit doesn't really "dwell" on the couple but He comes to confirm the union. Both couples are already Christians and have the Holy Spirit in them...why does He need to come again on them?!! (2) this is from Anba Youssef of the Southern "It is wrong to specify a certain moment in which the Spirit dwells, as if the Holy Spirit does not exist at all during all these prayers and all of sudden comes and dwell in this moment. Any sacrament is a journey and the Holy Spirit blesses every single moment in this journey till the journey reaches the peak at the end of the journey (the crowning in this case), so it is very proper to chant it before Agios"
     

    Edit:
    Do you wanna bring up tayy-shouri or ti-shouri belmarrah?!
  • RemnkemiRemnkemi
    Old manuscript evidence shows that the wedding ceremony in the 18th-19th century had many hymns before the gospel, one of them was nikhora. Pipneuma was said after the crowning before Khen evran. Whether or not, it is appropriate to say Pipneuma at this point or before agios, I believe, amounts to nothing more than pious contemplation. There is no real liturgical or theological reason to say Pipneuma must be said before agios and not after. 

    Tishori, according to old manuscript evidence was the paralex of Taishori. They were essentially the same hymn. 
  • davidschanterdavidschanter
    makes sense because tishori just explains what taishori says
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