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Protestant-influenced Orthodox Arabic Hymns

qawe
edited December 2014 in General Announcements
"Actually, many Arabic hymns are also Protestant-based, or initially inspired Protestant-like music."
- HG Bishop Youssef


Does anyone know when this trend started in Egypt?  An exact date would be great.

Comments

  • minasolimanminasoliman
    I don't know the answer to your question, but I feel HG's response, while a good and measured response, is probably something everyone in the spectrum of this debate might agree with, and so I don't find his answer "satisfying".
  • qawe
    edited December 2014
    minasoliman said:

    I don't know the answer to your question, but I feel HG's response, while a good and measured response, is probably something everyone in the spectrum of this debate might agree with, and so I don't find his answer "satisfying".

    Agreed Mina. Tbh I don't blame HG, it's a very touchy issue. He would be a hero if he wrote anything stronger than that.

    EDIT: HG has written very strongly against CCM though, but not Protestant hymns in general
  • RemnkemiRemnkemi
    There is one thing to remember here. We don't really need to know the specific providence where an Arabic Protestant song originated and entered the Coptic church. What is more important is the ability to identify the Protestant theology in these songs and remove the song (or at least remove the protestant theology). 

    What amazes me is that people have no clue what Orthodox sacred music should be, so they have no idea what Protestant theology entering is either. In my opinion, just about all Arabic hymns I hear have Protestant theology or strong Protestant influence. We would have to literally remove all Arabic songs. As qawe said this is a touchy issue. I wouldn't expect HG to condemn all Arabic songs at this time. He is wisely giving little hints here to slowly change a cultural mindset. 
  • qawe
    edited December 2014
    Remnkemi said:

    We don't really need to know the specific providence where an Arabic Protestant song originated and entered the Coptic church.

    I was under the impression that pseudo-Protestant songs were written by Orthodox Christians.  I didn't think they used songs direct from Protestants, at least not initially.  In any case, I agree we don't need to know when it started, but I personally am interested.  Aren't you?

    In answer to your question, Rem, there are 3 broad issues with these sorts of songs:
    1. Obvious contradiction of Orthodox theology
    2. Pietism (emotional worship - essentially entertainment to satisfy people's passions.  We shouldn't seek to change hymns because they are 'boring'.  Of course they're 'boring'!  Since when was Christianity meant to be fun?  Orthodoxy calls everyone to asceticism).  See: http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles/YannarasPietism.php  (I think you'll enjoy this article Rem).
    3. Omission of unique elements of Orthodox theology.  Our hymns need to positively affirm the Eucharist, asceticism, fasting, priesthood, etc.  If we are just trying to get through any song without articulating heresy, then why not sing 'Baa Baa Black Sheep'?  LOL It's probably better than most Protestant songs, at least it's not emotionalist.
  • mabsootamabsoota
    asceticism IS fun, by the way.
    8)
  • mabsootamabsoota
    this, for example is fun:

    words in english here:


    B-)
  • qawe
    mabsoota said:

    this, for example is fun:


    words in english here:

    The aspects of it that make it 'fun' (eg the bobbing of heads to a very tangible beat) are anti-ascetical. Ideally, this is not the way I would like to see tasbeha conducted.
  • mabsootamabsoota
    hmm,
    i thought it was fun because it is great that Jesus was incarnate of saint mary.
    also the people are really paying attention to the words.

    ok, we don't need to start boogying like it's a night club, we are worshiping God, not entertaining ourselves, 
    but i think it's a really great song.

    maybe we need to define the word 'fun', to see if we are using it the same way.
  • qawe
    mabsoota said:

    hmm,

    i thought it was fun because it is great that Jesus was incarnate of saint mary.
    also the people are really paying attention to the words.

    ok, we don't need to start boogying like it's a night club, we are worshiping God, not entertaining ourselves, 
    but i think it's a really great song.

    maybe we need to define the word 'fun', to see if we are using it the same way.



    I totally agree with you. Usually, however, when people praise Anba Youannes' tasbeha, it is largely (whether subconsciously or consciously) on the basis that they are 'boogying like its a night club'.
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