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"Follow along": How projector screens and liturgical texts may actually be a hindrance

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  • mabsootamabsoota
    i first attended a coptic church in 2005.
    since then i visited at least 8 churches up and down the uk (i lost count).
    the increased availablity of screens and books has helped a lot, and, at least in the big churches i know, there are plenty of newcomers.
    in my current church we are baptising (i guess) about 10 adults / older child converts a year who mostly don't know arabic or coptic.

    if each church had enough people who sit at the back (especially on the mens side) and showed each newcomer where to find the page in the book, we would not need screens.
    i would be happy if that happened. especially if there were more men who love to serve in the church by taking care of newcomers and not just thinking that all serving is done at the front! then i would find it easier to bring male friends to church. (they feel uncomfortable if either they or i are the only people sitting on the 'wrong' side for the purposes of showing them what is happening).
  • ShareTheLordShareTheLord
    Tv's are the reason that we cannot follow Saint Macarius' advice:

    "'If you will, you can become all flame.'"

    (Light sarcasm intended :) )
  • RemnkemiRemnkemi
    SharetheLord,
    It wasn't St Macarius. It was Apa Lot and his disciple Apa Abraam. I'll get you the exact apophthegmata. Plus, you are saying what I said about no lights and electricity (but I did with much more sarcasm)

    Mabsoota, 
    From what you are saying, you are corroborating what I'm saying. Language is peripheral. The main issue that I hear you saying is there are not enough servants to welcome in the back to guide newcomers through the liturgy, not the actual usage of Coptic or Arabic. It's wonderful that you are able to help 10+ converts a year. God bless your service (that is you and your church's service).

  • ShareTheLordShareTheLord
    edited July 2014
    True, you are correct, it was Apa Lot and his disciple Apa Abraam. I dont know why I had the impression it was Abba Macarius!
  • cyril
    Hi Rem, Amoussa, Mabsoota, Ophadece, Coptic Deacon and everyone, maybe one day the influence (for better or worse) of projector screens and books on Orthodox liturgical life will be the topic of someone's research paper :p

  • cyril
    To continue the discussion does anyone happen to have evidence that shows or suggest that projector screens are of benefit? Or that they enhance beauty?
  • ophadeceophadece
    Dear all,
    I hope if somebody knows any other church using such aids let me know. I'd not be very surprised to find that we're the only ones
    Oujai
  • ShareTheLordShareTheLord
    edited July 2014
    Having books are found in many churches. Ive attended Armenian Orthodox practice, Catholic Practice and other orthodox churches and all at least had books. The aid of a book, in my opinion, is equivalent to that of a projector (if it does not hide iconography). Whether you are staring into a book or a screen projector is essentially no different.So if you are asking about 'such aids' in that matter, I would say we are definitely not the only church where you would find that!

    I would like to elaborate my opinion on the matter tho (a little late I admit). You are entitled to disagree I understand. In my opinion, ophadece your dislike of projector screens is entirely understandable. I will be proceeding with my understanding as if we are using screens as an equivalent to a book, because again, in my opinion, as long the screen is not hiding anything, they would be enitrely equivalent to having books in church. I have been taught a couple of things over the years, that although not directly related to this subject, it would support the use of these aids. The first, is that I was taught that certain Fathers say that all our senses should be used during prayer. I have never been able to find an official reference, but that is not illogical. I can say that I know the majority of all the Liturgies by heart, whether in English, Coptic, French or Arabic. But I tend to get distracted nonetheless and need to re-focus by looking at the words and slowly contemplating the words. I am no scholar, and I may be making a totally incorrect assumption, but those liturgical texts have a lot of biblical contexts. If in prayer, we are communing with God, we are communing with our congregation. If I am staring at the words to get inspired and pray, and I am slowly united myself with God in prayer, I am praying the liturgy with all my brothers and sisters in church. If I am staring at an icon instead of the altar, that is to make me realize I am in heaven surrounded by a cloud of angels. It would not be a bad influence on me to thus look at the icons instead of the altar, all is heavenly. The projector screen is not heavenly but the words are still heavenly. It is like if I am home reading the bible, am I not in prayer with God? Am I supposed to know the bible by heart and recite? We are humans, and I believe these aids are much necessary in order to grow with God. Had I never had those aids, I would have so much more trouble learning the liturgical texts or even understanding them. 


  • ophadeceophadece
    @ShareTheLord and all,
    Firstly, tv screens in church don't just distract a few people as they have a more collective function. So by contemplating on an icon away from the altar for however long you are taking the saint's blessings and benefiting even though the main aim should be focusing on Christ. But no harm done Of course, people do pray to the saints during the liturgy anyway. Indeed, deacons change their stance to focus on the shoria sometimes, the readings at other times as well as the altar. 
    Secondly, a while ago Fr Peter Farrington explained to us when he was discussing with Zoxsasi as far as I can remember that liturgical books are completely different than mobiles and iPhones and of course iPads when used for prayers. I respect this very teaching and learn from it. Trust me I saw examples happening in the church that I serve in Of having to resort to technology instead of liturgical books and you know the rest.
    Thirdly would you rather pray from the ajbeya or some apps on the mobile? Would you rather read the Bible or your phone? Of course at times there's the necessity to use such aids but that's the exception not the rule. 
    Fourthly and lastly I'd like people to totally switch off their mobiles when they are at the church. Trust me deacons do Do that. I want them to forget their dependence on screens and technology that has invaded every aspect of our life only for a couple of hours and I hope that is not too much to ask. Personally I had an experience when I was a new deacon, I took a small Gospel book with me to church and would prepare the readings in advance and flick through whilst the anaghnostos is reading but an elderly deacon stopped me then even without explanation. I had to carry on Of course until he stopped me again and then I realised why.
    Sorry for the long post
    Oujai 
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