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Why apostolic succession may have to be true

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  • user157
    Matthew 4:23
  • imikhailimikhail
    [quote author=user157 link=topic=12817.msg150672#msg150672 date=1326860752]
    You are a very smart guy imikhail I did not expect such a challebge


    Then do not.

    I get a sense you want to reach the senior level quickly by posting so many posts.
  • user157
    What nonsense he who calls his brother a fool is in danger of hellfire 
    He who oppresses the poor oppresses his maker
    Jesus has me all backed up
    U don't want a challenge did Jesus ever back out of a challenge
  • imikhailimikhail
    [quote author=user157 link=topic=12817.msg150674#msg150674 date=1326860948]
    Matthew 4:23


    Here is the verse .. hope you understand it .. do not worry I will help you:

    "Jesus went throughout Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom, and healing every disease and sickness among the people."

    Two things to consider:

    Jesus was in Galilee and he healed every type of sickness.

    My question to you what about the other sicknesses in the rest of Israel, Syria, Egypt, Rome, ....? Did Jesus heal those as well according to this verse?

    Another question. Where does it say he healed all the sick?
  • user157
    He had enough works to prove himself I know not all cities received his miracles but do many others did so that even the Pharisees believed but they would not admit
  • imikhailimikhail
    [quote author=user157 link=topic=12817.msg150678#msg150678 date=1326861358]
    He had enough works to prove himself I know not all cities received his miracles but do many others did so that even the Pharisees believed but they would not admit


    Very well and He is still proving Himself today. He the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. He does not change.

    Just because you are unaware of the miracles does not mean  they do not exist.
  • user157
    Also it is mentioned that there were many other works not mentioned in the bible and everyone in earth witnessed the sun going dark and the earthquake and the angels voice I suppose and in the last days they will see Elijah bring fire from heaven and the other signs and believe it or not even an angel preaching the gospel
  • imikhailimikhail
    [quote author=user157 link=topic=12817.msg150680#msg150680 date=1326861538]
    Also it is mentioned that there were many other works not mentioned in the bible and everyone in earth witnessed the sun going dark and the earthquake and the angels voice I suppose and in the last days they will see Elijah bring fire from heaven and the other signs and believe it or not even an angel preaching the gospel


    And your point is ...?
  • user157
    My point is these signs are enough to convince unvelievers
  • imikhailimikhail
    [quote author=user157 link=topic=12817.msg150682#msg150682 date=1326861767]
    My point is these signs are enough to convince unvelievers


    If they are willing to believe ..
  • user157
    About that concept of me making posts to increase my reputation why would I want to do that what do I gain I only gain a reputation if my words are good if u think it is to get married  i sometimes see myself as an attractive guy but sometimes ugly but I am rich and I can choose to marry from any Christian denomination not because I am rich enough but I choose the cOpts who I am more familiar and I do not want to upset a priest who told me to when he thought I was looking at other girls
    But my spouse must become orthodox of ofcourse
  • user157
    [quote author=imikhail link=topic=12817.msg150683#msg150683 date=1326861838]
    [quote author=user157 link=topic=12817.msg150682#msg150682 date=1326861767]
    My point is these signs are enough to convince unvelievers


    If they are willing to believe ..


    Lol and u judge I am not willing to believe but I have doubts about something's in church
    Heaven will be full of critics like u and I am not being sarcastic even my brother criticises me but about other things
  • user157
    Incase I did not say so before I know Jesus healed the man whom Peter cut off his ear but it was not I front of a great multitude
  • user157
    [quote author=imikhail link=topic=12817.msg150675#msg150675 date=1326860964]
    [quote author=user157 link=topic=12817.msg150672#msg150672 date=1326860752]
    You are a very smart guy imikhail I did not expect such a challebge


    Then do not.

    I get a sense you want to reach the senior level quickly by posting so many posts.




    And I get the sense that u do not want me to be saved
  • user157
    I remember some of u lost ur peace just because u had some doubts about Jesus when Jesus wants us to recEive the gospel from the heart first And the mind receives faith as a blessing when god so wills and it is sought for long enough for jesus is the saviour of all men especially them which believe love is greater than faith
  • user157
    Tell a retarted person to understand by the mind and he will not or an old man who can not study viciously if it is the father and not flesh and blood which reveals the truth a person should not read apologetics until he wants to go to a mental hospital or kill himself for they are new doubts planted by Satan and no e will go to heaven until he can say blessed is he who comes in the name of the lorc the condemnation is for the heart not the mind the condemnation is that the light has come into the world and men love darkness more than the light
  • user157
    [quote author=user157 link=topic=12817.msg150687#msg150687 date=1326862943]
    [quote author=imikhail link=topic=12817.msg150675#msg150675 date=1326860964]
    [quote author=user157 link=topic=12817.msg150672#msg150672 date=1326860752]
    You are a very smart guy imikhail I did not expect such a challebge



    Then do not.

    I get a sense you want to reach the senior level quickly by posting so many posts.




    And I get the sense that u do not want me to be saved


    Perhaps u think I am trying to become a church father well I do not oppose it if I am right but I may be wrong I will not assume I am definitely correct but I am putting forward the problems I have that others may have and protesting against violence to people of little faith for Jesus never broke a bruised reed


    I wish to be attached tO my church and preach the gospel so others may find salvation in our church

    However if I am right about my doubts the church must defend its apostolic origin and I guess then I can not be a church father for there will be no church as we
    Pray in the liturgy confirm the foundation of the church
  • user157
    I am going to read about the miracles of Christ and come back if there are no obstacles such as tiredness
    Unbelief is a sin of the heart and not of the mind which is why Israel can be grafted in if they are willing
  • user157
    [quote author=Ioannes link=topic=12817.msg150660#msg150660 date=1326858913]
    [quote author=user157 link=topic=12817.msg150649#msg150649 date=1326853155]
    [quote author=servant33 link=topic=12817.msg150561#msg150561 date=1326772837]
    [quote author=user157 link=topic=12817.msg150542#msg150542 date=1326744502]
    Because I had to end my post to just let others know I have not completely been able to prove our church is from the apostles or to support my revelation


    lol I don't understand.

    Here is proof of apostolic succession:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Coptic_Orthodox_Popes_of_Alexandria


    How do u know this history is true and someone did not make it up


    How are we sure of any history? Many church fathers mention apostolic succession. Irenaeus and Tertullian seem to rely on this argument heavily. Another way apostolic succession works is by tracing the teaching AND worship. You can find the same teaching from St Ignatius of Antioch that you find in our church today. You can read St. Cyprian and see his thought reflected in the teachings of St. John Chrysostom or St Cyril of Alexandria. Then fast forward to today, and still the same. Apostolic succession is not just successive ordination, but successive doctrine, teaching, and worship.

    A great example of this comes from the EOTC. The protestants attacked them by pulling a beggar off the street, cleaning him up, and paying him to pretend he was a bishop from a church in the countryside. The EOTC pulled out their records to not only show this man was never a bishop, but that the church he claimed to be from did not even exist, ever. The EOTC showed that they have always kept a detailed record of their bishops and priests since their founding. I am sure this is the same for all or most of the Orthodox churches.

    In the new book I am working on I list the patriarchs of the coptic church, from the beginning to our current patriarch.


    The people of today care to make accurate records and governments are serious to insure future generations will know through video perhaps or some other way back far in history not many would follow if up and people would write things and hide them in the red sea so who knows if anyone was even aware of it
  • user157
    But I personally believe the new testament
  • user157
    Let's consider the second or third generation they would have heard about the miracles Of christ and if that generation was interested in Christ it would have stopped people from making false claims about apostolic succession and so on for the further generations but the problem is the writings were found years later in dead sea scrolls they put them in the sea secretly now if apostolic succession was true which also the Catholics claim why are not their doctrines not the same and could a church err in its doctrines if it is the only true apostolic church for if they have not erred the world better be afraid
  • TimothymTimothym
    If you read the Gospels well, you will see that Jesus healed those who desired to be healed and who believed that they could be healed. Remember Nazareth where He would not do any miracles because He was unwelcome there and there was no faith there in His own home town. As much as God is merciful, we can only truly be healed if we recognize, desire, and accept the healing and the Healer. Which event are you talking about Jesus not healing someone's leg? I'm sorry, it doesn't come to my mind.

    Also as for those 'retarded' people, our faith does not *have to be * understood mentally and its never understood mentally alone. God gave most people a brain and for those of us blessed to have one we ought to use it to think logically. He also gave us our heart and our conscience through which the God, Holy Spirit guides us.

    Since Christ is God and God is eternal and all-powerful that means that God also has control over all of history and time. If we cannot trust the Church which was founded to be Christ's presence on Earth after He ascended into heaven then how can we trust anything else on earth? So the Church was founded 2000 years ago. As time goes on, institutions (not to say that the Church is one necessarily) gain credibility. You've seen those signs "since 1905" etc.

    And just like imikhail mentioned earlier, if you go back to the documents immediately after the new testament period, the church fathers then whether in Rome, or in Egypt, or in Syria or Greece all spoke about the same Gospel and knew of the same epistles, traditions, and beliefs. Don't forget that they didn't have Microsoft Word, photoshop, and the internet back then!
  • user157
    Jesus gave all the miracles to those who were searching and seeking for the truth remember the father of the epileptic boy? Even the widow in elijahs time did not have much faith but she was a seeker and a good lady and especially naman did not he only confessed the God of Israel after he was healed Jesus just could not do a miracle to those who do not receive him and who are unworthy
    He did them not for show since he did not want to reveal himself as the messiah to those who had not receive him yet because he wanted their heart first lest they should open their heart so that he would heal them
  • user157
    The widow that Elijah came to gave Elijah a chance which is why she got the miracle but only after the miracle did she fully believe
  • user157
    So the lesson is u must seek God to receive a miracle he will not force himself on those who do not want to receive him the Pharisees would only follow God if he forces himself on them and splits the red sea in two
  • IoannesIoannes
    User157, I am kind of lost here, what exactly is your point?
  • RemnkemiRemnkemi
    Yeah, I'm lost here too. And why do you limit each post to one or two sentences? Can you please gather your thoughts into a full, concise and clear discussion in less messages?
  • user157
    No I will not gather it this is for those who want to know Gods will for their life not an intelligence contest however I will do so when I have a whole day in front of the computer and not using my iPhone on my holiday
    My point was that people need to be free from fears of doubts but they must give God their heart and life and also I still want to see clearly why the list of descendants is true and not made up

  • peterfarringtonpeterfarrington
    The list of bishops is not made up. We know the names and some details about the lives of each one.
  • user157
    What if those details are made up how do u prove it they were not made up?
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