drinking wine

edited December 1969 in Random Issues
a few questions

1. is it wrong to drink the wine that is used for communion (manischewitz)?

2. if it is right to drink the wine, it is alright to drink other wines like for a wedding for dinner?

3. if it is right to drink all wines without abusing, what about drinking beer without abusing?

Comments

  • 1. I don't see why not. .

    2. It is not right to drink wine, it is ok in moderation. That applies to any occasion and any wine. So long as you don't get drunk.

    3. Yes. Yes.

    ---That said, you have to ask yourself why would you drink beer at all without abusing it? It tastes awful. It differs from wine in that wine might actually taste good and go well with dinner. . .

    That's just my opinion on this whole topic. I didn't cite any scripture or patristic writings so my words are definitely fallible.
  • Yeah thats what I was thinking.

    With all due respect though, we don't follow our opinions we follow the church.
    That said could someone find out what the church says about this. Because I went to about 4 different priest and they all said different things
  • In public, in a sermon, in a lecture or even in speaking to small group, a priest generalizes topics that are on the border or being considered a sin or not. Abouna will not sit in an hour with highschool kinds to explain things like that because kids (more like those who lack maturity even if they are over 25 yrs) will concentrate on one thing: "YOU CAN DO [THIS]" and will disregards the "BUT you can't go as far as this"

    It is not wrong to drink, being of the legal age. But it is wrong to get drunk and become intoxicated to the point of losing one's mental state.
  • + Irini nem ehmot,

    'Love, and do what you will.' -St. Augustine
  • [quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=12490.msg146420#msg146420 date=1319308740]
    + Irini nem ehmot,

    'Love, and do what you will.' -St. Augustine


    Very true.

    However, I always heard it as - "Love God, and do what you will"



  • + Irini nem ehmot,

    No. The quote does not have the word 'God' in it, though it certainly is implied.
  • An interesting article by Father Antonios Kaldas from the Archangel Michael & St Bishoy Church in Australia:

    http://www.frantonios.org.au/2010/07/07/whats-wrong-with-alcohol/

    It brings up some good points, you cannot deny that even if you disagree.
  • I remember a monk being asked a question similar on live TV.

    A man asked him if it was a sin to use wine as the blood of Christ? The monk took a good 2 minutes in silence thinking. In the end, his answer was that it is not right and it is not wrong.

    As for the question on if it is ok to drink in moderation, I would have to say that there is no right or wrong answer. Would you ever see Abouna drinking (outside of church). on the other hand, the Bible never says it a sin to drink. It a sin to be drunk.

    So, pretty much, I would have to say there is neither right or wrong answer. (if that helps) lol :)
  • A friend of mine told me that one bishop (perhaps southern diocese?? I cant remember) had asked his parishoners not to drink the same wine as used in the liturgy in that specific diocese. Not all churches use Maneschewits...it just happens to be the cheapest sweet wine out there. There are others made by religious companies and that come from Greece etc but they tend to be more expensive.

    As for drinking alcohol, like the others said, its with moderation...remember we are not muslim! If we ban alcohol alltogether we should also ban pork.

    Also remember that Christ blessed the wine at the wedding of Cana in Galilee when the people at the wedding reception had already drunk some wine. Not that He is advocating to drink at all, but that we must use our own discretion and common sense...only thing is that "common sense isnt that common" :)
  • [quote author=Timothym link=topic=12490.msg146932#msg146932 date=1320207210]As for drinking alcohol, like the others said, its with moderation...remember we are not muslim! If we ban alcohol alltogether we should also ban pork.

    That makes no sense whatsoever.
  • umm I was being  sarcastic, however some people actually do think that wine is banned...
  • Written by C.S. Lewis which is the perfect answer to your question. It is, I think the true orthodox view on alcohol.


    "It is a mistake to think that Christians ought all to be teetotallers; Mohammedanism, not Christianity, is the teetotal religion. Of course it may be the duty of a particular Christian, or of any Christian, at a particular time, to abstain from strong drink, either because he is the sort of man who cannot drink at all without drinking too much, or because he is with people who are incline to drunkenness and must not encourage them by drinking himself. But the whole point is that he is abstaining, for a good reason, from something he does not condemn and which he likes to see other people enjoying."
  • + Irini nem ehmot,

    [quote author=Coptic Soldier link=topic=12490.msg147032#msg147032 date=1320297715]
    Written by C.S. Lewis which is the perfect answer to your question. It is, I think the true orthodox view on alcohol.


    "It is a mistake to think that Christians ought all to be teetotallers; Mohammedanism, not Christianity, is the teetotal religion. Of course it may be the duty of a particular Christian, or of any Christian, at a particular time, to abstain from strong drink, either because he is the sort of man who cannot drink at all without drinking too much, or because he is with people who are incline to drunkenness and must not encourage them by drinking himself. But the whole point is that he is abstaining, for a good reason, from something he does not condemn and which he likes to see other people enjoying."


    C.S. Lewis is one of the greatest modern Christian apologists. I love his writings. Is that taken from Mere Christianity?
  • [quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=12490.msg147040#msg147040 date=1320330974]
    + Irini nem ehmot,

    [quote author=Coptic Soldier link=topic=12490.msg147032#msg147032 date=1320297715]
    Written by C.S. Lewis which is the perfect answer to your question. It is, I think the true orthodox view on alcohol.


    "It is a mistake to think that Christians ought all to be teetotallers; Mohammedanism, not Christianity, is the teetotal religion. Of course it may be the duty of a particular Christian, or of any Christian, at a particular time, to abstain from strong drink, either because he is the sort of man who cannot drink at all without drinking too much, or because he is with people who are incline to drunkenness and must not encourage them by drinking himself. But the whole point is that he is abstaining, for a good reason, from something he does not condemn and which he likes to see other people enjoying."


    C.S. Lewis is one of the greatest modern Christian apologists. I love his writings. Is that taken from Mere Christianity?


    Correct. The greatest book ever written in my opinion.
  • lol i don't see why you can't drink wine that is used for communion, i think its just the brand lol. Our church uses all kinds of brands of wine, so i dont think its like prohibited. Abouna wont tell us "You drank that brand of wine!"
  • Hey Guys,
    So I have no quotes, but I'm just going to throw in some thoughts. I don't believe that it is wrong to drink wine. As for drinking the kind of wine used in Church, I personally wouldn't recommend it. It is obviously not a sin, nor will it ever be, its just that, if you are having a good drink with your friends at home, and hanging out, in a lax scene, the taste if the wine may associate itself with this scene (psychologists, correct me if I'm wrong). So I personally wouldn't drink that kind, just so I can reserve the taste for something special, and not have any relation between the time of Communion and the time of relaxing. In the monastery this past year, I was in charge of making the wine in the winery. I spent most of my time in the winery alone. When taking communion I was reminded of all the emotions I felt in that room. But this changes for every person.

    Im kind of scared to post this seeing as there are no quotes or anything, but I claim ignorance and claim that I may very well not know anything that I am saying. Its just some ideas, and I am open to any ideas for or against.

    Forgive the ignorance
    ReturnOrthodoxy
  • i agree with this. i don't drink much anyway, but i have friends who are much more spiritual than me who i learn a lot from who do drink, but they would only have 1 or (at most) 2 glasses, then not drink again for ages and ages. alcohol clouds yr brain so u can't study so well and tend to say embarrassing things u will regret - this can happen even after 1 glass.
    (with me it happens after no glasses!)
    ;)

    as for communion wine, i know what type was used in my previous church and i would never drink that type outside of church, like returnorthodoxy said, u could easily confuse the feelings of drinking for pleasure with Holy Communion, and i don't feel the need to mess with my brain. it's scrambled enough as it is!
    in exodus, the jews were told not to use the same perfume as the anointing oil, and not to burn incense of the same mix as the temple incense, and i think this is for the same principle.
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