Who is to blame?

24

Comments

  • The Lebanese believed in all of that nonsense.  Who is the majority, now?

    The Christians are being taught how to roll over and play dead, lick their master's hand, and they get a little pat on the head.

    Al-Azhar is setting up an obedience school for the naive Christians.
  • How does the government deflect attention from the violence against Copts? By sticking it to the Jews (LA Times Column)
  • Cephas,

    If we look up the word "donkey" we will find that bears the synonym as the truncated form of the word "jackass".  I mean that in the zoological sense and not the anatomical.

    I do not think slander is rendered in this situation for the simple reason for the fact that he is a fulfillment of the fateful prophecy of his party mascot.

    You say donkey, I say jackass.  They both have long ears and a tail and they smell.
  • Very true though dzheremi...
    Dear Unworthy1,
    I have been following on some online channels that I can provide links for later... however my understanding is that candidates are yet to officially register by the end of this month as far as I can remember... tell me if you'd like YouTube clips or written info and I'll try to do that maybe tomorrow when I'm on a computer...
    Oujai
  • DEar ilovesaintmark,
    Article 2 deals with co-habitation (can't remember the original term). Subtly it detracts from Copts' rights rather than guarantees it...
    Oujai
  • OOps... by the way ilovesaintmark... you're addressing Cephas is the wrong thread...
    Oujai
  • U1,

    Nice.  Very appropriate.  Also predictable.

    Cephas,

    I forgot: 

    Source:  Merriam Webster
  • O.D.,

    I asked for a transfer to this thread since I inappropriately (mistakingly) posted in the prayer thread.
  • I see... it becomes confusing for me sometimes to follow which where...
    Oujai
  • [quote author=ilovesaintmark link=topic=12453.msg145882#msg145882 date=1318285730]
    Question #1:  Yes
    Question #2:  Yes; refer to question #1 because they are the same
    Question #3:  Yes; because the Copts were stupid to join in with the "revolution" against Mubarak.
    Question #4:  Yes; because the American Government is being run by a Muslim and exceptionally stupid people.

    Any more questions?


    Umm the copts did not join the revolution, they stayed in their homes, it was actually the muuslims protesting SO  YEHH
    Obamas mum is christian his dad is muslim so ur right boout american gov,
    We r not the same as Islamic people y did u say that ??
  • Mary E,

    There was no revolution--as a first point.

    Unfortunately, you are incorrect, there were plenty of Coptic (misguided) that were every bit at Tahrir Square.
    They were into the "kumbaya" moment that there was going to be a New Egypt with brotherly love.  They got the
    "brotherly love" they desired:  THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD.

    President Obama gives a big wet kiss to Islam whenever he has a chance.  Why?  They are his "brothers", both literally and figuratively.

  • There is much to learn out of the problems in Egypt now, some of which I would like to herein think about.


    While the persecution in Egypt takes a toll on the church externally, there is much already internal problems that need our attention. Don't forget the many attacks that exist from within the church in terms of the increasingly powerful secularization of the church. One can take this as a time to step back and thing that maybe God sees that our church is beginning to loose it's faith or rather is moving away from its "first love" as the church of Ephesus in Revelations 2:4. Persecution has always strengthened our church, and this may be God's way of strengthening. I say MAY because may be comments about how it would be unfair to consider the murder of our brothers a lesson, and how that would be insensitive.

    However, who is to blame may not be the best questions. Let us consder what we are doing wrong and try to fix it. Why are we violently protesting? The synod made a statement in which they claim that those who are violent are not members of the Coptic church but are people outside it who have crept in. Really??? So there is no Coptic violence? The Copts are being violent. It may be with good cause as some are loosing their famillies, but let us not deny that the Copts are being violent, and there is no excuse for what they are doing. The Copts should stop the violence and begin deciding on effective ways of fixing this problem. Throwing rocks in not what we as children of God are commanded to do. While emotional they are justified, biblicaly, they are no better than the Muslims.

    One thing that I have noticed that I am EXTREMELY opposed to is the following: In my church, they have had these "prayer meetings" (yes that is what they call them...) that involve a 5 minute prayer in the beggining, 5 more at the end, and a song in the middle. The entire meeting lasts a good 4 hours. The rest of the 3:45 are spent on politician speeches, and the like. We say that we pray, but we just talk and talk and talk. If we are going to have a PRAYER MEETING lets have a meeting in which we pray to God, not listen to speeches and babblings which ultimatley have gotten us nowhere. Lets use this trial to increase our prayer. This year, we have declared a fast, and and time of prayer which is very good. I simply want to point out the importance of actually praying, and not just filling out petions and the like. They are all very good, but the ONLY person capable of doing ANYTHING is God. No government, political figure, saint, priest, bishop, youth with a rock, or any other human can change a THING with out God doing everything. So rather then put cranes around this mountain and hire the worlds best engineers to plan its movement, lets ask the one who moved the mountains and the seas to where they are, and lets ask him to move this mountain from us.

    Return Orthodoxy
  • I need someone to give me a quick run-down of the major attacks against Copts in Egypt over the past year (include 2010). This is urgent. Thanks!
  • [quote author=Unworthy1 link=topic=12453.msg146030#msg146030 date=1318483633]
    I need someone to give me a quick run-down of the major attacks against Copts in Egypt over the past year (include 2010). This is urgent. Thanks!


    Sorry I wont answer your question quite well
    BUT
    there has been millions no one may count so that is reallly saddd :'(
  • No worries, Mary. I know there are too many to name. I was just referring to the "headline cases." Anyhow, I already got what I need - thanks!
  • [quote author=Unworthy1 link=topic=12453.msg146032#msg146032 date=1318491730]
    No worries, Mary. I know there are too many to name. I was just referring to the "headline cases." Anyhow, I already got what I need - thanks!


    :) Glad to hear you got what you needed :D Take Careee
  • DEar returnorthodoxy,
    The Holy Synod was right. Christians didn't pelt any rocks, and some thugs infiltrated the march incited by government, scaf officials
    OUjai
  • Hi Ophadeec,

    My cousin went down along with his other Coptic friends and they told me that they were pelting rocks themselves. While my cousin is not a proper representation of the Copts in Egypt, but still he is a Copt along with his friends, and they were pelting rocks. I told him never to go down and pelt rocks again. The Synod is correct in saying they were "unarmed" as in having no actual weapons, but they still were violent.

    ReturnOrthodoxy
  • I do think it is a stretch to think that out of the thousands of Copts not one was violent.
  • Snipers fired at them to kill just as they started to reach the site. Then immediately the vehicles attacked ferociously driving back and forth many times.

    Some started pelting rocks trying to stop the armored vehicles from squashing more people. BTW it is video recorded that soldiers inside and outside the vehicles were directly firing at them to kill with their automatic guns. What can you say now? Would rocks thrown at the shielded attackers cause any harm?

    Then angry intruding outsiders and thugs caused more havoc.

    GBU
  • Dear returnorthodoxy,
    I stand corrected. Yes, Christians threw rocks at snipers in both elqolaly (top end of Shoubra, 3.5 - 4 miles from the march outset), and again near to the Maspero building (2 - 2.5 miles later), and they did that as a reaction. Seriously, do you call this violent? I would like to ask you how would you like them to react? How would you have reacted? Please tell me if you will walk down the street in an open area... very open... and being shot at, what would you do apart from running, because running won't save you...
    Bottom line is please don't talk about our brothers this way. This was not the first time ever in history (I mean the very recent history) for Christians, including even monks pelting rocks at people who attack them. I don't see it as abnormal, and I would like to ask you if you do, to define what would be a normal reaction...
    Oujai qen `P[C
  • Ophadeece,

    You must ahve missed the part where i said

    It may be with good cause as some are loosing their famillies, but let us not deny that the Copts are being violent, and there is no excuse for what they are doing. The Copts should stop the violence and begin deciding on effective ways of fixing this problem. Throwing rocks in not what we as children of God are commanded to do. While emotional they are justified, biblicaly, they are no better than the Muslims.

    I made it clear that i understand their position, but i simply will not deny the fact that they are violent. I know that it is  a bad situation but that does not change the law. Don't ask me what I would do. that was never my point. Ask what should be done regardless of who it is. I know its hard, and unlikely, I am just stating ideals from the bible. The bible says, "Do not resist the evil person." (Matthew 5:39)

    They are being violent, even though they are simply responding to greater violence, they are being violent. The fact that they are our brothers does not make it in anyway incorrect to speak the truth.

    Pray for peace in Egypt. that was my main point in the first post.

    ReturnOrthodoxy
  • [quote author=returnorthodoxy link=topic=12453.msg146044#msg146044 date=1318523905]
    Hi Ophadeec,

    My cousin went down along with his other Coptic friends and they told me that they were pelting rocks themselves. While my cousin is not a proper representation of the Copts in Egypt, but still he is a Copt along with his friends, and they were pelting rocks. I told him never to go down and pelt rocks again. The Synod is correct in saying they were "unarmed" as in having no actual weapons, but they still were violent.

    ReturnOrthodoxy


    I think the rock throwing was a knee jerk reaction expressed by many after seeing Military Army tanks and humvee's running over innocent protestors in a zigzag format.

    The sight would have shocked you - no?

    Wouldn't you have tried to do something?

    Well - here's an eye witness account of someone that was actually there:



    If you don't understand arabic, all I can tell you is that her testimony makes me want to go to Egypt and throw stones at the military myself.

    This is beyond cruel.

  • DEar returnorthodoxy,
    I still disagree for calling Copts violent due to their reaction.. if that's your view then probably Copts have been violent all along, not only last Sunday.. I just hate for you to be prejudiced by media announcements or any other source... God bless us all and bless Egypt as a whole... pray for us please
    Oujai
  • And another point actually, you call me violent if I instigate attacking another person, but if you come and hit me and I punch you to defend myself, what do you call that? I don't necessarily call it violence because I may be placid all my life and based on one specific occasion I wouldn't have drastically changed...
    Oujai
  • I don't think anyone is saying that they are violent but that some acted violently on that occasion.

    We are taught to turn the other cheek. We are taught to be radically different from the world. Of course, it is natural to return evil with evil. But we as Christians return evil with good.

    Just because the degree of evil returned by a few Copts was only a fraction of the evil dealt them, that doesn't mean it is acceptable.
  • Unworthy1, you stole the words out of my mouth.
    Violence is violence whether for defense or not. I am not prejudiced based on the media. I know well the effects of the media. I am telling you what I heard first hand from my cousin on the streets. Still, this conversation is of little value, and we need to pray for the will of God, and the strength of our church the face of adversity.

    God is Good
    ReturnOrthodoxy

  • + Irini nem ehmot,

    [quote=John 2:13-17 (EOB)]Now the Passover of the Jews was near, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. In the temple, he found those who sold oxen, sheep and doves, as well as the money changers sitting [at their booths]. So, he made a whip of cords and drove [them] all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen; he also poured out the changers' money and overthrew their tables. To those who sold the doves, he said, 'Take these things out of here! Do not make my Father's house a marketplace!' Then his disciples remember that it was written: 'Zeal for your house will consume me.'

    Christ didn't exactly turn the other cheek, did He? Would this constitute violence? Was not Christ the aggressor in this case?
  • Kephas,
    I don't have much of an answer lol. So does this mean that violence in certain places is acceptable? So what is ment by turning the other cheek? Where does it end. Not an argument, just an honest question.

    ReturnOrthodoxy
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