Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Categories
- All Categories 13.8K
- General Category 10.9K
- General Announcements 184
- Faith Issues 3.4K
- Coptic Orthodox Church 2.5K
- Personal Issues 1.4K
- Prayer Requests 426
- Random Issues 1.8K
- Introductions 295
- Non-Orthodox Inquiries 232
- Youth Corner 606
- Hymns 2.6K
- Hymns Discussion 2.6K
- Technicial Difficulties 368
- Technical Topics 368
Comments
[quote author=minatasgeel link=topic=12422.msg145684#msg145684 date=1317865029]
[quote author=imikhail link=topic=12422.msg145681#msg145681 date=1317860327]
It is a shame that Copts like Mina do not know much of their heritage and the connection between it and their faith.
It is a shame for to put this over the salvation of others. Despite what benefits you consider, anything that a human being places as a block for another to not receive salvation is unacceptable.
Where in the quote you highlighted do you see such a conclusion?
It is a shame that people do not understand what is written.
Yes there is a connection.....but it is not strong enough to take away the salvation of others. Now you are calling me an unbeliever and will not be saved because of lack of that knowledge...does my faith means nothing?! do my good works have no weight on my salvation?! what else other than faith and works is required for salvation?!
Here we go again...
For what it's worth, Greek trumps Coptic.
Anyone ever hear of the modern day heresy known as phyletism? Source
[quote author=imikhail link=topic=12422.msg145687#msg145687 date=1317867277]
[quote author=minatasgeel link=topic=12422.msg145684#msg145684 date=1317865029]
[quote author=imikhail link=topic=12422.msg145681#msg145681 date=1317860327]
It is a shame that Copts like Mina do not know much of their heritage and the connection between it and their faith.
It is a shame for to put this over the salvation of others. Despite what benefits you consider, anything that a human being places as a block for another to not receive salvation is unacceptable.
Where in the quote you highlighted do you see such a conclusion?
It is a shame that people do not understand what is written.
Yes there is a connection.....but it is not strong enough to take away the salvation of others. Now you are calling me an unbeliever and will not be saved because of lack of that knowledge...does my faith means nothing?! do my good works have no weight on my salvation?! what else other than faith and works is required for salvation?!
Salvation requires a Church .. a Church requires people ... people do have a language and a heritage to express themselves and their faith .... Got it!!!!!!
Where did I ever say that? What I said is that you fail to make the connection.
+ Irini nem ehmot,
Here we go again...
For what it's worth, Greek trumps Coptic.
Sorry to disappoint you Kephas. To the Coptic Church Coptic trumps Greek.
[quote author=imikhail link=topic=12422.msg145704#msg145704 date=1317875298]
[quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=12422.msg145690#msg145690 date=1317871812]
+ Irini nem ehmot,
Here we go again...
For what it's worth, Greek trumps Coptic.
Sorry to disappoint you Kephas. To the Coptic Church Coptic trumps Greek.
Sorry to disappoint you, but Greek was the lingua franca for the first 4 centuries or so of the Church. The Apostles spoke Greek. The Septaugint was written in Greek. The New Testament was written in Greek. So I say again, Greek trumps Coptic.
+ Irini nem ehmot,
[quote author=imikhail link=topic=12422.msg145704#msg145704 date=1317875298]
[quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=12422.msg145690#msg145690 date=1317871812]
+ Irini nem ehmot,
Here we go again...
For what it's worth, Greek trumps Coptic.
Sorry to disappoint you Kephas. To the Coptic Church Coptic trumps Greek.
Sorry to disappoint you, but Greek was the lingua franca for the first 4 centuries or so of the Church. The Apostles spoke Greek. The Septaugint was written in Greek. The New Testament was written in Greek. So I say again, Greek trumps Coptic.
Not for the Coptic Church. Coptic is the language of the Coptic Church NOT Greek.
[quote author=imikhail link=topic=12422.msg145707#msg145707 date=1317876082]
[quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=12422.msg145706#msg145706 date=1317875989]
+ Irini nem ehmot,
[quote author=imikhail link=topic=12422.msg145704#msg145704 date=1317875298]
[quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=12422.msg145690#msg145690 date=1317871812]
+ Irini nem ehmot,
Here we go again...
For what it's worth, Greek trumps Coptic.
Sorry to disappoint you Kephas. To the Coptic Church Coptic trumps Greek.
Sorry to disappoint you, but Greek was the lingua franca for the first 4 centuries or so of the Church. The Apostles spoke Greek. The Septaugint was written in Greek. The New Testament was written in Greek. So I say again, Greek trumps Coptic.
Not for the Coptic Church. Coptic is the language of the Coptic Church NOT Greek.
Mmmkay... Whatever helps you sleep at night. Ignore history if you wish.
+ Irini nem ehmot,
[quote author=imikhail link=topic=12422.msg145707#msg145707 date=1317876082]
[quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=12422.msg145706#msg145706 date=1317875989]
+ Irini nem ehmot,
[quote author=imikhail link=topic=12422.msg145704#msg145704 date=1317875298]
[quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=12422.msg145690#msg145690 date=1317871812]
+ Irini nem ehmot,
Here we go again...
For what it's worth, Greek trumps Coptic.
Sorry to disappoint you Kephas. To the Coptic Church Coptic trumps Greek.
Sorry to disappoint you, but Greek was the lingua franca for the first 4 centuries or so of the Church. The Apostles spoke Greek. The Septaugint was written in Greek. The New Testament was written in Greek. So I say again, Greek trumps Coptic.
Not for the Coptic Church. Coptic is the language of the Coptic Church NOT Greek.
Mmmkay... Whatever helps you sleep at night. Ignore history if you wish.
No no no ...can not ignore history. My Coptic Church official language is Coptic.
Now I can sleep better.
Thanks very much for defending me... good thing my wife is not next to me... hehe...
Dear Mina,
I am sure you know how through Coptic heritage the faith was preserved down the generations => Orthodox faith => salvation.
Dear Unworthy1,
Coptic is integral to the Coptic Orthodox church faith, Greek to the Greek Orthodox (or any other denomination I guess), English to the British, ... etc.
Dear Cephas,
Coptic trumps Greek as far as the Coptic Church is concerned. Yes Greek was originally the language of the church, but not the people. Church equals people, and that is why it had to be changed over time. To express our Orthodox faith we use Coptic as a language and as heritage wholly, and that includes the three Liturgies, that as you well know are not part of any other heritage. To argue about phyletism, you should note that we are in communion with other united yet distinct churches. They use their own heritage. Add to that the fact that British Orthodox Church recently formed uses St. James' Liturgy (one not used in the Coptic church, even though the former is an affiliate of the latter). I believe they were not that daft the people who constructed the prayers in such a manner, just to defend the One Catholic Church...
Oujai qen `P[C
Dear TITL,
Thanks very much for defending me... good thing my wife is not next to me... hehe...
Weird comment.
Dear Mina,
I am sure you know how through Coptic heritage the faith was preserved down the generations => Orthodox faith => salvation.
Relevance?
Dear Unworthy1,
Coptic is integral to the Coptic Orthodox church faith, Greek to the Greek Orthodox (or any other denomination I guess), English to the British, ... etc.
That's great! But imikhail was saying that Coptic is a part of our faith because so many texts we rely on is in Coptic. The same argument can be made for Greek. Thus, Greek is also integral to the Coptic faith.
Dear Cephas,
Coptic trumps Greek as far as the Coptic Church is concerned. Yes Greek was originally the language of the church, but not the people. Church equals people, and that is why it had to be changed over time. To express our Orthodox faith we use Coptic as a language and as heritage wholly, and that includes the three Liturgies, that as you well know are not part of any other heritage. To argue about phyletism, you should note that we are in communion with other united yet distinct churches. They use their own heritage. Add to that the fact that British Orthodox Church recently formed uses St. James' Liturgy (one not used in the Coptic church, even though the former is an affiliate of the latter). I believe they were not that daft the people who constructed the prayers in such a manner, just to defend the One Catholic Church...
Oujai qen `P[C
I'll leave it to Cephas.
[quote author=I Believe link=topic=12422.msg145726#msg145726 date=1317902985]
As for the comments on salvation, there is NOTHING absolutely nothing you can do for salvation...if you could there would be no reason for Christ to become incarnate and die for us! We already have salvation but the question is will you accept it or turn it down?
Just wanted to correct this little bit here. St. Paul tells us that we must 'work out [our] own salvation' (cf. Philippians 2:12). So clearly there are things we must do. Within the context of the Church, we must partake of the 4 sacraments necessary for salvation (baptism, chrismation, confession/repentance and communion); we must carry our crosses and follow Christ, we must follow the commandments of Christ to love God and to love our neighbor as ourselves (as the true fulfillment of the Law). So yes, there are things we can do for salvation. God works in synergy with our will. God offers us salvation as a gift and works with us to achieve it. To say otherwise is to be Protestant saying that our salvation is assured and 'once saved always saved'. That is not Orthodoxy.
Completely agree with Cephas... we have a duty towards our fellow brothers and sisters by helping them claim their own salvation...
DEAR Unworthy1,
TITL Is a lady and I was joking that my wife wasn't there otherwise she'd have got jealous... hehe... as for the other comment, actually it's a very good point... but the weight given to the importance of Greek may not match the Coptic...
Oujai
Actually I'm only a kid with little-no experience in life. That's why I participate in this forum-- to learn. :)
I do not believe you meant the Coptic faith but the Orthodox faith.
Yes, Greek, Latin, Coptic, Syriac, Hebrew, .. all the ancient languages that the Church Fathers wrote with are essential to the Orthodox faith (dogma, accurate translations of the Bible, saying of the Church Fathers, Canons..).
We can include Arabic as well since there are many writings of the fathers in Arabic, ...
However, to the Coptic Church what matters from a worship point of view is Coptic. When the Coptic Church "exports" her faith, it has a Coptic flavor to it.
I hope I did not add confusion to confusion.
[quote author=imikhail link=topic=12422.msg145744#msg145744 date=1317924192]
I hope I did not ass confusion to confusion.
ROFLMFAO!!!!!!
+ Irini nem ehmot,
[quote author=imikhail link=topic=12422.msg145744#msg145744 date=1317924192]
I hope I did not ass confusion to confusion.
ROFLMFAO!!!!!!
OOPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What I find funnier than imkhail's typo is that you purposefully alluded to the same word in your acronym.
You start off with a simple question: "Is the Gospel of John read on the resurrection?"
The OP is answered in the very first reply.
That should be it - done, dusted, finite. But it NEVER IS with some people.
People get side-tracked and start on a new irrelevant topic. Because they HAVE to be heard. They simply MUST be heard by others.
Then comes the critical point, the "rate-limiting factor," the point where the whole thread takes a turn for the worse:
People start attacking people based on what they THINK the other person's personal beliefs are (their attack is pretty much guaranteed to be biased because of their previous perceptions of the person, and are generally utterly nonsensical.)
Never mind about getting your facts right first. Never mind about actually READING THEIR POST. Just go ahead and start a flame war.
And then follows the inevitable bickering on yet more irrelevant issues, and the incessant personal attacks, and the ridiculous moaning from the spelling and grammar Nazis.
And this will go on for page after painful page.
Peace, I've just about had it.
+ Irini nem ehmot,
[quote author=I Believe link=topic=12422.msg145726#msg145726 date=1317902985]
As for the comments on salvation, there is NOTHING absolutely nothing you can do for salvation...if you could there would be no reason for Christ to become incarnate and die for us! We already have salvation but the question is will you accept it or turn it down?
Just wanted to correct this little bit here. St. Paul tells us that we must 'work out [our] own salvation' (cf. Philippians 2:12). So clearly there are things we must do. Within the context of the Church, we must partake of the 4 sacraments necessary for salvation (baptism, chrismation, confession/repentance and communion); we must carry our crosses and follow Christ, we must follow the commandments of Christ to love God and to love our neighbor as ourselves (as the true fulfillment of the Law). So yes, there are things we can do for salvation. God works in synergy with our will. God offers us salvation as a gift and works with us to achieve it. To say otherwise is to be Protestant saying that our salvation is assured and 'once saved always saved'. That is not Orthodoxy.
If you keep reading verse 13 says, for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. The OSB goes on to explain these verses like so: Therefore, because of Christ's sacrifice, we are to take hold of what God offers, accepting His grace and working toward becoming mature in Christ. Note the cooperation: we work out or our won salvation (v.12) while it is God who works in us to do His will (v.13)
So yes you are right for the most part, I stand corrected. But don't forget that is is God who is driving in us.
Pray for me
I apologize if i have offended anyone.
His servant