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Resurrection Re-Enactment

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  • imikhailimikhail
    The liturgy is not a reminding but an actual living of the events.
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    imikhail......i disagree on that to. What you are trying to do is call the entire liturgy an enactment.......so now the Resurrection enactment is just an addition to that. i don't agree with that. the liturgy is not an enactment....we truly LIVE in it.
  • RemnkemiRemnkemi
    You beat me to it Mina.

    I would like to add that when Jesus tells us "Take eat, this is my body", the second half of his statement is "Do this in remembrance of me". The Last Supper/First Eucharist is a living, eternal remembrance that is "given for salvation." In this sense, the acts of (or actions that took place in) the First Passover and the Last Supper are remembered and relived in every Eucharist. But there is no need to make a distinction between enactment or remembrance (unless you are only copying events verbatim like a civil war re-enactment). If there is no need to make a distinction, then there is no reason to call one an enactment and the other a remembrance, especially if the word re-enactment has the implication of theatrics devoid of spirituality).
  • imikhailimikhail
    The reliving of the event is through the calling of the Holy Spirit. This done ONLY in the liturgical service. However the resurrection enactment idoes not have the calling of the Holy Spirit.
  • RemnkemiRemnkemi
    So are you saying an event that calls on the Holy Spirit should be called a remembrance and an event that does not call on the Holy Spirit should be called an enactment?
  • imikhailimikhail
    In a way yes, let me explain.

    Epiclesis or the invocation of the Holy Spirit leads the Church into anamnesis which is the mystery of experiencing the actual salvation deeds through the Eucharist. It is not a passive experience where we just remember but we live mystically those moments of salvation.

    Unfortunately, the closest English word to anamnesis is "remembrance", which does not fully explain the mystery of living the actual events. Thus, the word has been reserved to denote the Eucharistic mystery which only takes place through epiclesis. Using it in the liturgical sense to refer to other ritual services, outside the liturgy like the procession of Judas, would not be proper for there is no epiclesis and no mystical living of the event.

    Again, to be clear, I am just refering to the liturgical meaning of the word "remembrance" and why it is proper only to use it in the Eucharistic service.

    Please, let me know if this makes sense.
  • peterfarringtonpeterfarrington
    As a native English speaker I have to say that the phrase Resurrection Re-enactment sounds very clumsy to my ears and is not form of language  I would normally use. I would speak about the Battle of Hastings Re-enactment when a whole day is given over to re-enacting the events of 1066. But the words we use in the Paschal liturgy are not very extensive.

    I would probably describe it as the Resurrection Dialogue.

    I do agree completely that it is not the same as the central elements of the eucharist which is a mystical participation by the Holy Spirit, but it is undoubtedly more than simple words, and is a blessed means of recalling our attention to the events of the resurrection in a dramatic manner.
  • RemnkemiRemnkemi
    [quote author=Father Peter link=topic=11187.msg136054#msg136054 date=1302811060]
    As a native English speaker I have to say that the phrase Resurrection Re-enactment sounds very clumsy to my ears and is not form of language  I would normally use. I would speak about the Battle of Hastings Re-enactment when a whole day is given over to re-enacting the events of 1066. But the words we use in the Paschal liturgy are not very extensive.

    I would probably describe it as the Resurrection Dialogue.

    I do agree completely that it is not the same as the central elements of the eucharist which is a mystical participation by the Holy Spirit, but it is undoubtedly more than simple words, and is a blessed means of recalling our attention to the events of the resurrection in a dramatic manner.


    Fr Peter,
    As a native English speaker, and even more as a British speaker (since we are continuing the Britain vs. American fued), would "Resurrection Enactment" seem clumsy to you? I think it's not much different the "Resurrection Re-enactment".

    Also isn't the pharse "it (the Resurrection event) ...is a blessed means of recalling our attention to the events of the resurrection" is the definition of remembrance? Shouldn't "Resurrection Remembrance" be adequate?

    George
  • TITLTITL

    As a native English speaker, and even more as a British speaker (since we are continuing the Britain vs. American fued)

    How come I wasn't invited to this? You can't have a Britain vs. America feud without an AMERICAN! You British people are really something...
  • peterfarringtonpeterfarrington
    I haven't joined in this discussion because I do not think the terms are important. If someone thinks that what is happening is the same as at the epiclesis then they are mistaken. But if that distinction is clear then I do not think the term is important. I don't think we use any such terms in my own congregation but we know what we are talking about.
  • RemnkemiRemnkemi
    Fair enough, Fr Peter,

    I wanted to see TITL's reaction anyway. And to set the record clear I am American and Vietnam doesn't count.
  • TITLTITL
    I'm making my own forum.


    And in case anyone was wondering, no one from here is invited.
  • imikhailimikhail

    Also isn't the pharse "it (the Resurrection event) ...is a blessed means of recalling our attention to the events of the resurrection" is the definition of remembrance? Shouldn't "Resurrection Remembrance" be adequate?

    I am not sure what else we would call the "Resurrection Enactment", but certainly I would not call it "Resurrection Remembrance".

    The word "Remembrance" has been used in the liturgy to equate the Greek word anamnesis. It is the English translation word used in the most Bible translations.

    Using "Resurrection Remembrance" would be confusing from a liturgical sense especially when explaining to non Orthodox.

    Thanks.
  • RemnkemiRemnkemi
    [quote author=TITL link=topic=11187.msg136077#msg136077 date=1302821290]
    I'm making my own forum.


    And in case anyone was wondering, no one from here is invited.

    TITL, what are you talking about. I got your back. Can't you hear me singing "I'm proud to be an American"? And I hate country music.

    Please invite me to your forum ;D
  • TITLTITL
    Since you're the only person on this forum who loves me, I guess I can invite you under one circumstance: no more "let me say this to see how much TITL will freak out".

    We should name our forum "Preference vs. Time Constraint: Americans Only". It's genius; I can't believe I thought of it myself!



  • mabsootamabsoota
    i love you too but i have a funny british accent that goes egyptian when i am in church...
  • TITLTITL
    hahaha awww ok everyone is invited to my forum; I'm renaming it "Tasbeha.org". Here's the link for those that are interested: http://tasbeha.org/content/community/index.php
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=TITL link=topic=11187.msg136108#msg136108 date=1302894095]
    hahaha awww ok everyone is invited to my forum; I'm renaming it "Tasbeha.org". Here's the link for those that are interested: http://tasbeha.org/content/community/index.php

    hahaha.....ur funny.
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