Dr Ragheb Moftah's Family & keeping recordings of Cantor Mikhail El batanoony

edited December 1969 in Hymns Discussion
Hi All,
I'm was quite surprised when I heard that Dr Ragheb Moftah's family is keeping some recordings of Cantor Mikhail & preventing the church from learning from them. This basically means that there are definitely hymns that were recorded & we don't know anything about. I'm not sure what the justification for this is.
Any thoughts?

Comments

  • Several words come to mind:

    Selfish
    Pharaoh complex
    I'm special

    Ragheb Moftah, although having preserved the recordings, also allowed for some of the tapes to be stolen, because of his carelessness and inability to reproduce them to other media.  The person that took them was with the pretense of a graduate project.  I believe to Canada.

    O well, another treasure of the Coptic Church, stolen.

    Good night.  I thought I would share that terrible news as a follow-up to your comment.

    I guess we all want to be special and say:  Epi-prosevki like a bunch of goofy 5 yr olds.  So we can feel special.
  • [quote author=ilovesaintmark link=topic=10155.msg124234#msg124234 date=1291946875]
    The person that took them was with the pretense of a graduate project.  I believe to Canada.

    OOHHHH don't tell me that.....now you just strengthen suspensions that i always had about some people up there....

    Baladoos, don't be surprised.....you think people do it for the "love" and "blessing" of it?! you should go to egypt and ask them.

    and everyone hates tasbeha.org for having that much hymns of online to download for free......how unchristian of such words or thoughts!!! despite any acceptable reasons they say that.
  • Thanks Mina. That point I made several times before and you always supported it. Very true.
    Please note that Dr. Moftah's family as I believe was a very rich family and I believe he himself used to pay from his own money for recordings. That's a very noble attitude.. but we also have to note the mindset of rich people and not being very willing to share their possession. Natural I'd say... Christian I'd say not.
  • [quote author=ophadece link=topic=10155.msg124248#msg124248 date=1291970281]
    Thanks Mina. That point I made several times before and you always supported it. Very true.
    Please note that Dr. Moftah's family as I believe was a very rich family and I believe he himself used to pay from his own money for recordings. That's a very noble attitude.. but we also have to note the mindset of rich people and not being very willing to share their possession. Natural I'd say... Christian I'd say not.


    well....as i was told, the guys wasted all his money for this project.....and even thoo, he didn't realize his greatest accomplishment; being HICS.
  • [quote author=minagir link=topic=10155.msg124249#msg124249 date=1291971584]
    [quote author=ophadece link=topic=10155.msg124248#msg124248 date=1291970281]
    Thanks Mina. That point I made several times before and you always supported it. Very true.
    Please note that Dr. Moftah's family as I believe was a very rich family and I believe he himself used to pay from his own money for recordings. That's a very noble attitude.. but we also have to note the mindset of rich people and not being very willing to share their possession. Natural I'd say... Christian I'd say not.


    well....as i was told, the guys wasted all his money for this project.....and even thoo, he didn't realize his greatest accomplishment; being HICS.


    Maybe "wasted" isn't the right word. It was useful, after all.
  • [quote author=. link=topic=10155.msg124284#msg124284 date=1292023639]
    [quote author=minagir link=topic=10155.msg124249#msg124249 date=1291971584]
    [quote author=ophadece link=topic=10155.msg124248#msg124248 date=1291970281]
    Thanks Mina. That point I made several times before and you always supported it. Very true.
    Please note that Dr. Moftah's family as I believe was a very rich family and I believe he himself used to pay from his own money for recordings. That's a very noble attitude.. but we also have to note the mindset of rich people and not being very willing to share their possession. Natural I'd say... Christian I'd say not.


    well....as i was told, the guys wasted all his money for this project.....and even thoo, he didn't realize his greatest accomplishment; being HICS.


    Maybe "wasted" isn't the right word. It was useful, after all.

    well yeahh.
  • Again, I don't understand why they want to keep some recordings from the church. If the intention of the original recordings was to preserve coptic hymns, then how come they don't want to make it available to the church. At least to the known cantors who are responsible for coptic hymns!!!! Cantor Tawfik mentioned that Cantor Mikhael used to tell them about a long alleluia introduction for the annual psalm 150 & another version of Ekesmaro-oot, but they didnt' get a chance to learn it from him, in other words, these hymns were buried with Cantor Mikhael. Maybe these hymns were recorded, but no one got the chance to learn them from the recordings. I totally don't understand their intention behind this.
  • [quote author=baladoos link=topic=10155.msg124704#msg124704 date=1292455091]
    Again, I don't understand why they want to keep some recordings from the church. If the intention of the original recordings was to preserve coptic hymns, then how come they don't want to make it available to the church. At least to the known cantors who are responsible for coptic hymns!!!! Cantor Tawfik mentioned that Cantor Mikhael used to tell them about a long alleluia introduction for the annual psalm 150 & another version of Ekesmaro-oot, but they didnt' get a chance to learn it from him, in other words, these hymns were buried with Cantor Mikhael. Maybe these hymns were recorded, but no one got the chance to learn them from the recordings. I totally don't understand their intention behind this.

    i doubt they are hiding any recording of "unknown" hymns.
  • mm....not sure if this is correct though, I still don't understand why they are keeping the original recordings. At least we need these recordings for learning purposes!!
  • [quote author=baladoos link=topic=10155.msg124714#msg124714 date=1292462140]
    mm....not sure if this is correct though, I still don't understand why they are keeping the original recordings. At least we need these recordings for learning purposes!!

    you are not gonna learn from them....trust me. his recordings, M Mikhail, were best in being able to extract musical notes from......mainly that's it.
  • lol if there even was such a thing as an unknown hymn, there would be the questions of when to sing it!

    Cheers
  • Well Mina, If Cantor Mikhael recorded every single hymn he knows, then definitely there are some recordings of unknown hymns. Why wouldn't Cantor Mikhael record every single hymn he knows??? According to what I know, he tried his very best to record every hymn he knew at this time.
  • [quote author=baladoos link=topic=10155.msg124726#msg124726 date=1292468391]
    Well Mina, If Cantor Mikhael recorded every single hymn he knows, then definitely there are some recordings of unknown hymns. Why wouldn't Cantor Mikhael record every single hymn he knows??? According to what I know, he tried his very best to record every hymn he knew at this time.

    we believe that he doesn't know ALL the hymns that you might be thinking. he simply didn't record everything....he didn't have access to all of those hymns. he barley recorded everything from around cairo....some from far (as m.nasef from el-mansoura--i think)....some Alexandria (but not a lot because that area were kind of proud ppl so they didn't "share" hymns as much--that's also y many ppl just don;t like them and say that "they make alhan up")....elso else3ed, upper egypt....he had no access to those at all.

    also that is simply confirmed by how different our hymns today are based on the area the orignal teaching was.
  • Mina is right, Mlm Mikhael definitely did not know all the hymns out there. There are so many variations and things going on. The only hymn he even got from el sa3eed was Apetjeek(although I'm not sure if he got it directly from them or another source but its originally from there I believe).

    Take the liturgy of St cyril in coptic. He was only able to record maybe 5 known tunes from the liturgy? I'm sure at that time it wasn't as rare to find but yet he didn't record and refused to teach it saying it was simply too difficult. Why he did that? Who knows, but because of that we "lost" an entire liturgy and set of tunes for it. The key isn't to worry about whats lost and reviving but to HOLD on to what we have now and preserve them.
  • Pardon my ignorance, but who is Cantor Mikhail El batanoony.

    There was one stage there were alot of hymns (i.e the tunes/hazzat) that were some how lost. So there was a Cantor that had a gift of being able to fit the correct musical note(s) into a hymn- so he restored back the tunes of the hymns. Was that Cantor Mikhail?
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