How was Cantor Ibrahim Ayad Chosen by HH Pope Shenouda,

edited December 1969 in Hymns Discussion
Hi All,
I know that this topic was discussed before, but I'm interested to know the details of how HH Pope Shenouda chose Cantor Ibrahim Ayad to be the lead cantor in St Mark's Cathedral in Egypt. I read it in a book that in 1968 HH Pope Shenouda (Bishop Shenouda at this time) heared Cantor Ibrahim chanting Eptchoice Efnooty (The Annual Asbasmos Watos) & he was extremely impressed with his talent & great voice. Any other information available?

Also, how did cantor ibrahim know all these hymns? & how old is he? Where is he from?

Comments

  • [quote author=baladoos link=topic=9979.msg121979#msg121979 date=1289415883]
    Hi All,
    I know that this topic was discussed before, but I'm interested to know the details of how HH Pope Shenouda chose Cantor Ibrahim Ayad to be the lead cantor in St Mark's Cathedral in Egypt. I read it in a book that in 1968 HH Pope Shenouda (Bishop Shenouda at this time) heared Cantor Ibrahim chanting Eptchoice Efnooty (The Annual Asbasmos Watos) & he was extremely impressed with his talent & great voice. Any other information available?

    Also, how did cantor ibrahim know all these hymns? & how old is he? Where is he from?

    i think i remember hearing from some that he was brought to HH by Anba Mousa.
    Also Ibrahim Ayad himself was very close to M Fahim, Pope Kerrelos's deacon.

    Also i think there is an article on ch.net that have some of the cantors he learned from....not sure how accurate it is thoo.

    btw, you're obsessed with the guy :)
  • Actually, he was brought from one of the villages under the tutelage of Cantor Fahim Guirguis and Fr. Shenouda Anba Bishoy (former priest of St. Mark in Chicago).  Both of these individuals taught him from his youthful age, later by other Cantors.

    Incidentally, Muallim Fahim used to serve in Jerusalem at the Coptic Holy Shrines including the Church of the Holy Sepluchre, before His Holiness Pope Kyrillos VI asked for him to entrusted with the Rites at the Cathedral of St. Mark in the area of the Ezbakiya.

    I believe there was a certain prodding that Fr. Shenouda carried forward on his behalf.

    Thereafter...he deviated to his "own" approach to doing things.
  • [quote author=ilovesaintmark link=topic=9979.msg121983#msg121983 date=1289423890]
    Actually, he was brought from one of the villages under the tutelage of Cantor Fahim Guirguis and Fr. Shenouda Anba Bishoy (former priest of St. Mark in Chicago).  Both of these individuals taught him from his youthful age, later by other Cantors.

    Incidentally, Muallim Fahim used to serve in Jerusalem at the Coptic Holy Shrines including the Church of the Holy Sepluchre, before His Holiness Pope Kyrillos VI asked for him to entrusted with the Rites at the Cathedral of St. Mark in the area of the Ezbakiya.

    I believe there was a certain prodding that Fr. Shenouda carried forward on his behalf.

    oh.....that explains the strong connection between abouna Shenouda and abouna Bishoy (may god rest his soul).

    Thereafter...he deviated to his "own" approach to doing things.

    well i can't fully disagree but......that didn't change the connection as much. ya3ny i have to say that Ibrahim Ayad's voice, back then atleast, pushed to get a little...i don't really have a word for it. I don't wanna say "prideful" because i think that kind of came with the status.......but the tapes he recorded with "better" quality and the support of his status and don't forget his playful voice brought him up....WHICH IS FINE!!
    i love the guy's voice......believe it or not, now more than before. i tend to like nice-semi old-strong voices (and combination of those mixed with quality these days--listen to tee-shory by mTawfik in HICS holy week rite)...which Ibrahim came to have after having some surgeries on his voice.

    to hear the difference, listen to the "Annual rite" and compare it with the "Resurrection" or "Palm Sunday" rites.....over 10 years different between the time they were both recorded by the same person.
  • I fully agree with Minagir, I love Ibrahim Ayad's voice when he recorded the resurrection tapes, absolutely fantastic. & Yes Mina, I'm obssessed with this guy, I'm a big fan
  • Ohh and actually, the annual rites were recorded in 1987, while the palm sunday rites were recorded in approximately 2007. Cantor Ibrahim recorded the full set of the rites of the feast of the cross, he recorded them at the end of 2009, but I personally think that his voice got worse in this recording. He sounded like an old Cantor, not like Ibrahim Ayad that we are used to. Especially if you hear the reading of the procession gospels.
  • [quote author=baladoos link=topic=9979.msg121986#msg121986 date=1289429570]
    Ohh and actually, the annual rites were recorded in 1987, while the palm sunday rites were recorded in approximately 2007. Cantor Ibrahim recorded the full set of the rites of the feast of the cross, he recorded them at the end of 2009, but I personally think that his voice got worse in this recording. He sounded like an old Cantor, not like Ibrahim Ayad that we are used to. Especially if you hear the reading of the procession gospels.

    i didn't get or heard the Cross recordings yet. i also heard he have recorded things for the 29th of the month....also annunciation....but i didn't get them yet. i been slacking of really.
  • Really???? 29th of the month? & annunciation? I never heard of that! do you mean the teaching lessons that he had on his website?
  • [quote author=baladoos link=topic=9979.msg121996#msg121996 date=1289437232]
    Really???? 29th of the month? & annunciation? I never heard of that! do you mean the teaching lessons that he had on his website?

    no. rite. i might be mistaking....really havn't being much attention. i did hear thoo that he might be coming to visit  :)
  • Ohhh really? you mean to USA?
  • [quote author=baladoos link=topic=9979.msg122005#msg122005 date=1289440032]
    Ohhh really? you mean to USA?

    yeah. nj specifically. but we heard,,,,,nothing for sure yet
  • I wish I can meet with Ibrahim Ayad one day, he is my hero.....  ;D, does anyone know how old he is? I think he is about late 50s right? Anyone knows if there are any interviews with him?

    Also, I like to know some information about Cantor Gad Lewis & Cantor Zaher. I actually know how cantor Gad looks like, but I haven't seen a picture of cantor zaher before.
  • whoa whoa whoa minagir, Ibrahim Ayad might be coming to NJ? Where did you hear this? For what occasion?
  • [quote author=user00 link=topic=9979.msg122014#msg122014 date=1289444842]
    whoa whoa whoa minagir, Ibrahim Ayad might be coming to NJ? Where did you hear this? For what occasion?

    i have connections  ;D.
    not sure really. definitely nothing special because he must be with hh in general important things like nativity, holy week, resurrection.
  • Wow!!! you guys are very lucky  ;D, I wish I can come to USA when Cantor Ibrahim goes there. By the way, anyone knows where I can download liturgies that has Cantor Ibrahim Ayad? I have downloaded some, but I still need to download more. By the way, any recommendation for the best gregorian liturgies & where I can download them?
  • Cantor Ibrahim Ayad was actually here in Mississauaga, Ontario, Canada during St. Marys fast for the whole week:) it was a great blessing.
  • Wow!!! that's fantastic, you guys are lucky
  • Baladoos,

    I did some research and I found out that Ib's birthday is February 30th in case anyone wanted to know.
  • [quote author=ilovesaintmark link=topic=9979.msg122053#msg122053 date=1289529433]
    Baladoos,

    I did some research and I found out that Ib's birthday is February 30th in case anyone wanted to know.

    oh comon......don't give more info to baladoos to go crazy about....
  • Minagir,

    You know how playful I get.  I have to do it to the guy.

    Actually, I have been humble about an issue.  Ib is my second cousin 15 times removed.  I found out the last time I was in Egypt.  My aunt told me I have a remote cousin named Ibrahim.  I figure it has to be Ibrahim Ayad.  Who else would have that name?
  • [quote author=ilovesaintmark link=topic=9979.msg122056#msg122056 date=1289530332]
    Actually, I have been humble about an issue.  Ib is my second cousin 15 times removed.  I found out the last time I was in Egypt.  My aunt told me I have a remote cousin named Ibrahim.  I figure it has to be Ibrahim Ayad.  Who else would have that name?

    hmmm....a lot of ppl.
    actually, i think we are also relatives by marriage from far far away. ya3ny my 2nd cousin married someone who is like 2nd cousin to him.....not that it's important or anyone knows.

    actually, what's more interesting to me is my dad met mGad alooong time ago before i was born. i am proud of that  ;D
  • Please allow me to put a dampener on things, you know it is my job.  :)

    I think that we should be very cautious about allowing Western forms of hero worship to enter into the Church. Anyone who has a service in the Church is seeking to perform that service with humility and is constantly having to struggle against pride. When such a servant is made into the equivalent of a media star, even out of completely genuine respect for their service then it becomes much harder to them to work out their own salvation.

    There is a difference between saying, 'I give thanks to God for the ministry of X', and talking about X as if he was top of the charts or a leading political figure or a top author. St Severus had to write several letters to people who asked him to send the eucharist to them by post because HIS eucharist must be better than anyone else's. He often had to ask people to stop praising him because he knew that he himself was also a struggler with sin and needed prayer and not praise.

    Do we remember St Anthony, when he was told that there was someone who was more spiritual than he was.

    In the city there is someone like you, a doctor by profession, who gives all his money to the needy, and the whole day long he sings the Thrice-Holy Hymn with the angels.

    This person was unknown. We don't even know his name. But he was the equal and even the superior of St Anthony, and he lived in the city of Alexandria, pursuing a profession. The crowds came out to see St Anthony, some of them seeking advice, some seeking healing, many seeking an interesting day out, just as in the time of our Lord. But in the midst of them was already a man who was St Anthony's equal.

    Let us give thanks to God for the public ministry of those God has called, but let us be hesitant in praising them as if any gift they had was their own, more eager to pray for them. Each careless word of praise, beyond what is due, takes away from their eternal blessing. The Lord says of those who are praised in this life that they have received their reward. Each careful word of prayer benefits both them and us.

    The Scriptures also warn us against saying, I am of Apollos, I am of Paul, I am of Cephas. Even the great Apostles did not want to gather a fan base around themselves, but insisted that anything they might do was due to God, to whom be all the glory.

    Please also consider those in our own congregations. There are hidden and humble saints in our midst that we easily pass over. The priest who hesitates and stumbles in the liturgy while weeping may be a spiritual giant compared to the priest who is fluent and attractive in his service but has not properly learned to pray. I know who I would rather stand beside at the altar. The old deacon whose voice is broken but who has served faithfully for 50 years or more. God knows his worth. What spiritual lessons such treasures of the Church might share if we were willing to become their disciples. Perhaps they make mistakes? Perhaps they are not technically entirely correct. But if we do not learn the spiritual lessons they are able to teach us, by entering into the relationship of father-son then all of our technical proficiency becomes rather worthless.

    I was blessed to have such a priest. Not always the most accurate, but always the most loving. I have learned a great deal from him as a priest myself in following his carefulness for our souls.

    We should not neglect the treasure which is in our own congregations. Humble yourselves to learn from those who live out the Christian life in a hidden humility. Do not do harm to other's service and diminish their eternal reward by elevating them beyond their service. Do we not think that Cantor Ibrahim Ayad, and all others with a well known ministry, do not wake up every morning and pray earnestly, 'Remove from me all pride, O Lord, that destroys our service'. We must surely be careful not to place temptation in the path of such servants.

    There really is no place at all for such hero worship in the Church. What matters more to our salvation? The ministry of a man we quite likely will never meet, or that of the over-looked servant standing beside us? Please let us remember that the diaconal service is not essentially about hymns and chanting. It is about selfless service. This is why the first deacons were set apart, to serve the congregation by waiting at tables. It is all very well being excited about the ministry of X and Y, but why do we never hear people being excited about sharing what Z has done in our own congregation? Perhaps it is because he only comes in early every service of worship to take care of the practical matters? Perhaps it is because he only visits all the elderly and sick? Perhaps it is because she only makes packages of food which she distributes to the poor?

    Let me be clear. I am moved in my spirit when I hear a beautiful setting of the liturgy, and it often helps and encourages my worship. But I am moved far more, and even to tears, when I hear of the humble service of some soul, unknown almost to all, unnoticed even by those in the same congregation. I am moved far more, and even to tears, when a priestly or diaconal voice breaks up with the spiritual emotion of the words which are being prayed and sung. That which is performed in secret will be rewarded with the greatest fanfare. That which is performed in public has already been rewarded.

    Let us pray for those who have a public and visible ministry. They need our prayers a great deal more than they need our praise.

    Father Peter
  • i was going to say something positive about that post, but there is this danger of it sounding like hero- worship
    ;)
    lol
    seriously, though, i know someone who is really humble and serves all the time and is always praying and thinking of God. she is not at all famous, and will never be, but i am really delighted to know someone like that and to see her often.
    i pray to God that u all meet someone like this to teach you how to live 
    :)
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