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The dove on Sayedna's table

MozesMozes
edited December 1969 in Random Issues
To some people the landing of dove on Sayedna's table is a miracle.

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Comments

  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    it's a simple sign of God. around the same time this happen, some people asked HH a question and requested changing the laws of choosing the new pope (which is disgusting to think about now)......part of the rite is that the best 3 bishops are chosen and then there is an "or'a haykaleyah" which is think means the lot that is done in the Sanctuary.....i think. It is basically a liturgy that is done on an envelope that have the names of the 3 bishops (and i heard they also put an empty one....but not sure of that), after the liturgy, a child chooses one of the names and that bishop would become the new pope. this would be God's action into this process (not that HE doesn't work in choosing them)...

    So people wanted to remove that.
    The pope of course spoke against the people who requested this because again, this is the part of the process where you leave it to GOD to choose the shepherd. And the dove came to confirm that.

    When Joseph the Carpenter was betrothed to Virgin Mary, his rod blossomed. In our Church tradition, we say that a dove came and stood upon it to...being the Holy Spirit confirming the choice.
  • Marmoura99Marmoura99
    I also heard that some bishops wanted to replace sayedna and that they're causing a little bit of trouble around this issue.... is this true??
  • sylvia0105sylvia0105
    I cannot fathom how anyone can start talking on this subject, changing the way the church chooses the Pope.  Pope Shenouda is beyond amazing, one of the smartest people that walked this earth.  Absolutely the most eloquent individual our church or country has ever seen.  Always knows what to say and how to say it.  I think Coptic people need to get busy with productive products at times instead of stirring down roads they have no knowledge of. >:(
  • Unknown
    It is extremely rude, hurtful and shows lack of class to speak of choosing a new Pope whilst our Pontiff is not only alive, but actually, there - present!!

    I'm sure there are loads more miracles than this happening with His Holiness.
  • miskandemiskande
    I love Pope Shenouda and without any disrespect to him, why is this considered a miracle? it is a dove that landed on his desk?!? We need to be careful about what we consider is a miracle and what is an occurance. I think sometimes we get miracle-happy and consider everything somewhat unusual or rare a miracle.
  • MozesMozes
    [quote author=omelnour link=topic=8495.msg107718#msg107718 date=1258129179]
    I love Pope Shenouda and without any disrespect to him, why is this considered a miracle? it is a dove that landed on his desk?!? We need to be careful about what we consider is a miracle and what is an occurance. I think sometimes we get miracle-happy and consider everything somewhat unusual or rare a miracle.


    You are basically right,but this story might be considered a miracle,because doves do not fly at night.They do not fly,cos most daytime birds can not see well when darkens sets in. The scene took place at a time when doves are normally inactive.
  • ebnyasoo3ebnyasoo3

    I love Pope Shenouda and without any disrespect to him, why is this considered a miracle? it is a dove that landed on his desk?!? We need to be careful about what we consider is a miracle and what is an occurance. I think sometimes we get miracle-happy and consider everything somewhat unusual or rare a miracle.

    You are basically right,but this story might be considered a miracle,because doves do not fly at night.They do not fly,cos most daytime birds can not see well when darkens sets in. The scene took place at a time when doves are normally inactive.

    Actually anba Bishoy was in one of the  Egyptian TV shows and he said that it is a miracle.
  • PaNo5PaNo5
    As I heard, at this very time they were talking about the Blessed drawal (Dunno if this is the right term to be called) and his holiness said that he wasn't the right choice, then the dove came and sat on his deck. As you can see, Ibrahim Ayad, said: "So you can know that the blessed drawal was the right one". That's why it is considered a miracle.

    Excuse again for the term "Blessed drawal" I don't know the specific term.
  • marina008marina008
    it certainly annoy's me the way people make a big deal about some things. Pope Shenouda is one of the greatest people in this world. He spread Christ through making churches in different countries around the world. He is a great father and leader to us God Bless him and give him many more years in his life. The annoying thing is that people make a big deal for small things. Everyone treats Pope Shenouda like a king. In his 38th year being a pope was an exaggerated celebration. all of a sudden they're giving him many new celebrations such as the time he was a monk and the time he became a bishop. These things are toooo tooo much!The great Pope Kyrillos didn't get any recognition for becoming a pope every year. He was a very  modest person. The way the people over react in Pope Shenouda's wa3za's on WEdnesdayz are ridiculous! People clapping and almost dancing! The church is a church of order. IT's God's house and He's amongst us. Why praise Pope Shenouda over God? May God give him manyyy manyyy manyyy more years in His blessed life.


    Please pray 4 me
  • godislove260godislove260
    Marina008, I agree 100% with what you said...
  • Meena_AmeenMeena_Ameen
    that wasnt a dove that landed on sayendas table, it was a pidgeon.... dont know if that is significant or not.
  • copticmark
    marina008
    U have a very valid point, I want to make a small correction about what minagir said on casting the lots to choose the pop. (el koraa el haykalia) In the original history of the church it is not bishops that should be taken , the highest rank should not be more than hegomenos (Koommos). Only 3 exceptions in the church history took place :Pope113 anba Youannis 19 was ordained in 1928, then Anbba Makarii the 3rd was bishop of assiout , And God Bless and give him long years of life our beloved anbba Shenouda.
    In fact up till the 10th century some of the pops were from the lieghty i.e not Clergy. example is annba Demetrious el karam the auther of the abbocty calender, he was a vine dresser. also annba Athanasius the apostolic he was a deacon before his ordination, annba abraam abu zarra was from the liety. etc.

    About casting the lots this also was not since the begining, what used to be either the existing pope see a vission to who will replace him or when u read in the synaxerion it always says that the priests and the congregation of Alexandria go to the desert to consult with the fathers to choose a successor.

  • mabsootamabsoota
    you all have good points. i only recently watched the video as someone else sent it to me, and it's clear sayedna is trying to get everyone to calm down! that is what confirms to me he is living a holy life; he does not seek recognition.

    i read a brilliant article about choosing the pope by the brilliant metropolitan seraphim (again, i don't want to praise him excessively but i have met him a few times and really like him).

    http://www.britishorthodox.org/useoflot.php

    it is really long, so i won't paste it here, but basically he is explaining the origin of the lot and the way they choose.
    it seems fine to me (as if i am anyone to have an opinion!)  ;)
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