Hi,
I'm just curious to know what the viewpoint of the CoC is concerning assisted suicide where someone is so ill, and in serious pain, that it is best to let them die?
The argument of the consensus for those who are pro-assisted suicide is that we allow horses and cows to be put down if they are in pain, but we allow humans to go on suffering.
Thanks
Comments
I think,there is little or no difference between Euthanasia and Assisted suicide.While in the case of Ethanasia, a doctor adminsters a lethal injection with the intention of taking the life of a patient and in the case of that latter one, the patient is prescribed the lethal dose and s/he then takes the dose until death enters. In both cases,regardless of the patients wish or suffering(God's will), innocent life is being taken away and that does consititute murder. As you know, the COC allows only the termination of life support machines for brain dead individuals, cos they are already dead anyway.
I think,there is an ongoing debate about assisted suicide in the UK right now.
It is not your will but HIS WILL
God doesn't give us anything that we can't bear
And again it is not your life it belongs to God
Yeah, OK Geomike, but what about in the case where the pain is soooo unbearable and the person is terminally ill?
1. everythaaaaaaang is God's will
2. in your case you mentioned, you would be ending his life for his relief and satisfaction.....people get relief from murdering others too, doesnt make it right...
in conclusion, murder is wrong
the end
Yeah, OK Geomike, but what about in the case where the pain is soooo unbearable and the person is terminally ill?
Though I am not Coptic, I hope I can offer my view.
I'm going to agree with geomike's answer that God gave us the life and we are in no place to take that life away. God gave that affliction to them as their cross to bear toward their salvation. We are to endure every sort of suffering for Christ's sake and we cannot decide we can no longer bear it and end it on our own since it is up to God when someone dies or don't die. Suicide is pretty much like blasphemy since God gave us this life to repent and work toward our salvation but when we decide that we no longer want to labor anymore and end our life on our own terms, it's like taking the gift that God gave us and throwing it right back in His face and when it is assisted suicide, one is helping someone to die which is murder and your assisting in their own sin.
Well that could just be a tribulation
God doesn't give us anything that we can't bear
And again it is not your life it belongs to God
Geomike,
Also, if someone was to make the decision to end the life of another person in this situation, wouldn't that still be God's will being performed? We are created by god for a purpose, maybe that person's purpose was to bring the other person's trapped spirit to God for salvation.
God Bless,
Patrick
Geomike,
Also, if someone was to make the decision to end the life of another person in this situation, wouldn't that still be God's will being performed? We are created by god for a purpose, maybe that person's purpose was to bring the other person's trapped spirit to God for salvation.
God Bless,
Patrick
Just because we perform an action, does not mean it is God's will. He gave us the freedom to choose our own paths and decisions even if they do not coincide with His will. If we chose to end the life a sick individual, it most certainly would not be God's will. Ending the life of someone else is wrong because, as was mentioned earlier, it is not our life to take away. If God wants to take the person, He will and no one will be able to stop Him. Only in brain death can we "pull the plug" but that is only because we consider a brain dead person to be dead already.
I understand the harshness that may be associated with this rule. I have seen friends debate whether to end the life of a parent when there seems to be no hope. Remember however, with God all things are possible. He could use the sick person to perform a miracle and heal him/her. He could use the sick person to bring quarreling family members together. He could use the person's illness to give them a chance at repentance and drawing near to Him at the end of life. We should never feel like we can understand God's actions. They are so far above our own thinking that we can not even comprehend them.
[quote author=patman98 link=topic=8222.msg105184#msg105184 date=1249519677]
Geomike,
Also, if someone was to make the decision to end the life of another person in this situation, wouldn't that still be God's will being performed? We are created by god for a purpose, maybe that person's purpose was to bring the other person's trapped spirit to God for salvation.
God Bless,
Patrick
Just because we perform an action, does not mean it is God's will. He gave us the freedom to choose our own paths and decisions even if they do not coincide with His will. If we chose to end the life a sick individual, it most certainly would not be God's will. Ending the life of someone else is wrong because, as was mentioned earlier, it is not our life to take away. If God wants to take the person, He will and no one will be able to stop Him. Only in brain death can we "pull the plug" but that is only because we consider a brain dead person to be dead already.
I understand the harshness that may be associated with this rule. I have seen friends debate whether to end the life of a parent when there seems to be no hope. Remember however, with God all things are possible. He could use the sick person to perform a miracle and heal him/her. He could use the sick person to bring quarreling family members together. He could use the person's illness to give them a chance at repentance and drawing near to Him at the end of life. We should never feel like we can understand God's actions. They are so far above our own thinking that we can not even comprehend them.
Thank you Aiernovi,
I understand what you mean, that is very true, God does work in mysterious ways that cannot be understood by us sometimes, but there is the possibility that that is what god wanted them to do, but i will never be able to find out in this life.
God Bless,
Patrick
I think to use science to end someone's life - even if they are in pain is wrong. But the arguments you have given are not strong enough, and what worries me is that these petty reasons will encourage others to do the opposite.
I think it is best to ask a Bishop and get his response, otherwise I fear that if anyone of us used this material in a debate against Assisted Suicide we would clearly lose.
My main concerns are:
i. The pressure on old and sick people to agree to an assisted suicide could and would become very great and would lead to many people feeling that they should agree to kill themselves to save others any inconvenience and cost.
ii. Government ministers have already said that old and sick people need to be more aware of the cost and burden they represent to others and should consider assisted suicide in the future if it were legal.
iii. Easily available suicide would mean that many who had a full life ahead of them would take such an option unwisely because they were feeling depressed.
iv. Those who wish to commit suicide are often in a state of mental illness, just as those who wish to mutilate their bodies and have a so-called sex change are mentally ill. They need help to live not help to die.
v. Assisted suicide will undoubtedly cause pain to the family left behind, and be seen as an abandonment.
These are not all supposed to be water-tight reasons. I am not sure there is usually such a thing in any societal issue. But these are generally the reasons I am against assisted suicide. Especially the first. It seems to me that a ward full of old people with pressure on beds in a care home would very easily start to put pressure on the oldest and sickest to save everyong further inconvenience by agreeing to an assisted suicide.
Here is one instance of what concerns me....
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/jul/26/assisted-suicide-christian-nurses-rcn
The Nurses union reports that nurses are now in favour of being neutral about the issue of assisted suicide rather than being against it as in the past. Yet clearly only a tiny proportion, 0.5% of nurses, indicated they were in favour of a more relaxed attitude, yet the nurses union reports to the press that over 50% of nurses were now in favour or neutral towards assited suicide. It seems to me that there is a great deal of publicity, media activity, even lies, about people's views on this subject, which suggests that there is a lot of lobbying being organised and paid for by people who stand to benefit from a change in the law. We should always ask - who benefits - and in this case there is a lot of money to be made from legalising assisted suicide and cornering the market in the UK.
Father Peter
http://www.civitas.org.uk/wordpress/?p=852
Civitas is a UK organisation that produces important and interesting materials on social issues, and though not explicitly Christian it presents a perspective that takes account of Britain's 2000 year old Christian heritage.
Father Peter
I know we all disagree with Assisted Suicide, but seriously - if we start saying stuff like "Its against God's will" - then we start in an already defeated position against those who do not believe in God.
And that applies to any argument. We must find ways to explain why something is wrong without just saying "because God said so".
Fr Peter's points are clearly valid and have a strong weighting in any debate against Assisted Suicide.
I for one, did not think of all those points, but I feel we must endeavour to find common grounds with those who do not believe in God by which to base our arguments on.
Yeah, OK Geomike, but what about in the case where the pain is soooo unbearable and the person is terminally ill?
well God never gives you more than you can handle. i believe it will one day soon be acceptable in our society but we cannot accept this, this world is pain and suffering and its only for a short time, this world is the LEAST of what we truely deserve.
if someone has a terminal illness, the decision not to try and re-start their heart with a defibrillator or their lungs with a ventillator is a decision that recognises they are not getting better and will soon die even if resuscitated. it is normally (in most developed countries at least) discussed with the patient and the relatives before it happens.
killing someone, even if they want, is murder, and wrong for all the reasons father peter said.
it is hard to suffer pain and long-term illness, but with Jesus praying for us to our Father, it is bearable. one person who has shown us how to endure this suffering is our beloved saidna anba anthony who encourages Christians by his patient endurance of his suffering.
http://tasbeha.org/content/community/index.php?topic=7859.msg102161#new
may God bless him and all who suffer and let us continue the fight to stop assisted suicide being legal. let us pray for Christians in countries where it is already legal, so they have the strength to fight these terrible laws.