well, some of us think it's the church that needs to change here. these women need help and compassion, not a quick, socially appropriate answer. like, if the woman has trouble getting married, people in church should provide free child care while she works part time or take her to live with them and not work, or anything esle other than suggesting she marries the man who abused her.
tina, well done for your stance on abortion at work, keep it up! there are even some gynaecologists who have suceeded in getting a job who don't do it. it will probably be hard for you at work, but God will bless you through that.
Marrying him who raped her??????? For those of you who don't know (is there anyone?) I am a female.
I honestly think (without any offense to anyone) that suggesting that a women marry the man who raped her is an insane remark. Mina, I honestly think that if you were a woman, you would never considering thinking such a thought, let alone suggesting and recommending it. I do not care where this woman is, even if it is second- world Egypt. Forcing her to marry this man will inevitably drive this woman to insanity. Whenever she looks at him she will remember the worst day of her life, and will hate him because of it. Surely the church does not recommend that a woman hate her husband.
Oh, and I suggested adoption! There are signs all over every high school in America of places where the government (ideally not the best place?) offers to take any unwanted child. By no means can we force a mother to provide care and love when she needs to be given care and love.
As for men marrying the raped mothers, I surely have seen many men who refuse the thought of marrying anyone but a virgin. It is common Egyptian stone- age thought. It is sad, but it widely exists.
And, one last request from me to all of the men on this forum: never ask someone to do something you would never be willing to do. Ever!
Sorry for being emotional, but this topic frustrates me because few people are willing to put themselves in the shoes of a raped woman to see how it feels.
The man that raped her repented. She lost her virginity so it was a bad thing, and so the priest recommended that the man who raped her marry the woman. He didnt really recommend.. I cannot really use the word "recommend". Coptic priests NEVER recommend - do they? Its more or less a case of "I am the mouth of God, and what I tell you, you will obey, or you will go to hell" - when someone develops this status for himself, then there is no dialogue. There is no recommendation. There is just his way, or the highway.
Being Coptic, one thing we all know is obedience. We are conditioned to be obedient just by virtue of our culture. This is magnified enormously by virtue of our Coptic faith that instills in us the values of obedience to our elders (and especially the priests). So - there is No dialogue with a priest.
Therefore, if you consider all the above issues I have mentioned (obedience and power we give to priests) - whatever they suggest is never a recommendation, and is never a suggestion. You will be treated badly if you go against their word.
And this has happened to me. They themselves will do the most IMMORAL things imaginable, and yet tell you (in case you complain) - "NO no.. He is the ambassador of God, you cannot talk back at him.. no no no no"
I'm just sharing this as with respect to rape - it shows what kind of advice a woman would be receiving IF she was Coptic.
I am not Egyptian, but I am a priest of the Coptic Orthodox Patriarchate and I would not speak as you suggest all Coptic priests speak, nor would I deny anyone the possibility of discussion about anything.
I have Coptic friends I have grown Orthodox with and who I have seen become priests as well over the last few years and I cannot believe that they have the view you describe either. This is not to deny it at all as I know that it does exist. But is it universal? I -cannot believe so. Is it the case that no-one here has a good and healthy relationship with their priests? I truly hope this is not the case.
[quote author=peterfarrington link=topic=7824.msg101914#msg101914 date=1239874783] QT, is that so among all Coptic priests?
I am not Egyptian, but I am a priest of the Coptic Orthodox Patriarchate and I would not speak as you suggest all Coptic priests speak, nor would I deny anyone the possibility of discussion about anything.
I have Coptic friends I have grown Orthodox with and who I have seen become priests as well over the last few years and I cannot believe that they have the view you describe either. This is not to deny it at all as I know that it does exist. But is it universal? I -cannot believe so. Is it the case that no-one here has a good and healthy relationship with their priests? I truly hope this is not the case.
Father Peter
Well, Fr. Peter, I haven't done a survey, but generally speaking, being obedient means obeying in the Coptic Church, and we are all raised to "obey". Coptic priests may UNWITTINGLY find themselves in a position of huge power where their advice is always going to be taken so seriously. The priests would give us the SAME high standard that Mina is suggesting: i.e. that they keep the baby and that 2 wrongs do not make a right.
However, in EVERY situation i've been in, and without exception, not one priest has ever helped in a problem, but many times a few of them - including the bishops, have been the CAUSE of the problem, and then they play the "obedience" card to ensure that they can slap you and get away with it. If you scream, then you are not being a good Christian.
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=7824.msg101917#msg101917 date=1239880527] [quote author=peterfarrington link=topic=7824.msg101914#msg101914 date=1239874783] QT, is that so among all Coptic priests?
I am not Egyptian, but I am a priest of the Coptic Orthodox Patriarchate and I would not speak as you suggest all Coptic priests speak, nor would I deny anyone the possibility of discussion about anything.
I have Coptic friends I have grown Orthodox with and who I have seen become priests as well over the last few years and I cannot believe that they have the view you describe either. This is not to deny it at all as I know that it does exist. But is it universal? I -cannot believe so. Is it the case that no-one here has a good and healthy relationship with their priests? I truly hope this is not the case.
Father Peter
Well, Fr. Peter, I haven't done a survey, but generally speaking, being obedient means obeying in the Coptic Church, and we are all raised to "obey". Coptic priests may UNWITTINGLY find themselves in a position of huge power where their advice is always going to be taken so seriously. The priests would give us the SAME high standard that Mina is suggesting: i.e. that they keep the baby and that 2 wrongs do not make a right.
However, in EVERY situation i've been in, and without exception, not one priest has ever helped in a problem, but many times a few of them - including the bishops, have been the CAUSE of the problem, and then they play the "obedience" card to ensure that they can slap you and get away with it. If you scream, then you are not being a good Christian.
Its awful.
What you are saying is a gross over generalization. Not all priests do that. Maybe the ones you've seen in Europe but from what I've seen in the US, priests don't take advantage of this "power" they have as you put it.
please re-read what I wrote. Im NOT AT ALL saying that ALL priests are like that. I've met many that are not like this. In fact, I've met many that have complained to me personally of priests who are like that. lol
But , it is undeniable that the priests are given a huge amount of authority by virtue of the submissive nature they enforce in teaching us to be obedient. Their version of obedience is one that involves only obeying and no questioning and in many cases has no room for mercy.
Hello Tesbeha people. I ask all of you for your forgiveness if what I will say is going to offend you and correct me if I am wrong. I am writing this post because I am observing a growing trend of disregarding our clergy’s and even referring to them in some extremely inappropriate ways. It might be the case that some clergy are unfit for their position. But we should realize it is not the individual priest or bishop that we are respecting but the office they hold. In 1 Samuel 3 we see that even though the priest Eli was unholy he was still the one who help Samuel discern God’s voice. Also even though the priest of Jesus time were hypocrites Jesus order the ten lepers “He looked at them and said, “Go show yourselves to the priests.”” Luke 17:14. Personally I found our COC clergy to be very humble and loving. They bear with our childish ways and listen to our confessions not with anger but compassion. They abandon promising earthly careers to serve us for the love of God. May the God who gives them His grace pay grant them great rewards in heaven. If one strongly feels his/her abouna or bishop is not meeting their need then it will be appropriate to follow the three simple steps indicated in Matthew 18: 15 – 17. First and foremost, talk to him privately. If this doesn’t work then consider the other two options. However, without giving at least the first two steps a chance, which are recommended by our Lord Jesus Christ, it would not be wise to condemn them in public. May God give us His grace to heed to our clergy least we transgress His word: Do not touch my chosen people… 1 Chronicles 16:22 Forgive me if this is not related with the current topic Pray for me and my weakness In Christ Theophilus
[quote author=minagir link=topic=7824.msg101857#msg101857 date=1239744527] i don't see what's the wrong with what they are doing right there. they were just trying to cover as much sins as possible.
Wow, I'm speechless. So is that what you learn at Church? Destroy someone's life to cover up sins of another. That's really sad that you are trying to justify it.
Isaiah 5:20 "Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
Although I PERSONALLY can accept the statement you mentioned: i.e. "the mother or person should consider this as a test of faith" - i STILL, however, find it HUGELY INSULTING that a bishop would dare to impose his morals on others. He can consider it a test of faith for HIS personal life... but I don't think he has the right to suggest this for other people (who may not have may not even be christian or know God at all!!) especially if HE HIMSELF (not anyone else he knows!!!) is not willing to take care of a baby whose father raped his mother.
A bishop imposing his morals on others... There is something immensely disturbing about your statement. I thought there was a difference between "morals" and what the church decrees. Abortion is just wrong. It's not a matter of morals. I am very sorry that you think when a bishop states the church's views, which is his role as a shepherd, that you seem to find it offensive. That would mean that the church is just a corrupt organization trying to "impose morals" on the world. The church doesn't try to impose anything on anyone, neither do bishops. They say it like it is. Abortion is not accepted by the Coptic church unless the mother's life is in danger--simple as that.
As for abortion and rape, we as Christians should be willing to adopt a child if we knew it would get aborted otherwise; and if we aren't good enough Christians to be able to do that, it doesn't mean that it's justifiable for a child to be killed. A christian woman who got raped will certainly find it trying, but that doesn't mean she is justified in any way to get an abortion. Perhaps the child's father is a rapist, but he has another Father, and the child's life is neither the property of his earthly mother or father. Simply put, the decision is not theirs to make. Life does not belong to us no matter what. "This person causes me psychological and physiological issues, and so I must be justified in killing them." That sounds a bit different, now...
[quote author=grace08 link=topic=7824.msg101934#msg101934 date=1239937632] [quote author=minagir link=topic=7824.msg101857#msg101857 date=1239744527] i don't see what's the wrong with what they are doing right there. they were just trying to cover as much sins as possible.
Wow, I'm speechless. So is that what you learn at Church? Destroy someone's life to cover up sins of another. That's really sad that you are trying to justify it.
Isaiah 5:20 "Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
I can't speak on Mina's behalf, but I think you misunderstood what he said.
I understood from that statement that the priests are trying to AVOID more sins (i.e. 2 wrongs don't make a right). I know Mina a bit now, and I'm 99% sure that he meant to say "avoid" rather than "cover up".
Although I PERSONALLY can accept the statement you mentioned: i.e. "the mother or person should consider this as a test of faith" - i STILL, however, find it HUGELY INSULTING that a bishop would dare to impose his morals on others. He can consider it a test of faith for HIS personal life... but I don't think he has the right to suggest this for other people (who may not have may not even be christian or know God at all!!) especially if HE HIMSELF (not anyone else he knows!!!) is not willing to take care of a baby whose father raped his mother.
A bishop imposing his morals on others... There is something immensely disturbing about your statement. I thought there was a difference between "morals" and what the church decrees. Abortion is just wrong. It's not a matter of morals. I am very sorry that you think when a bishop states the church's views, which is his role as a shepherd, that you seem to find it offensive. That would mean that the church is just a corrupt organization trying to "impose morals" on the world. The church doesn't try to impose anything on anyone, neither do bishops. They say it like it is. Abortion is not accepted by the Coptic church unless the mother's life is in danger--simple as that.
As for abortion and rape, we as Christians should be willing to adopt a child if we knew it would get aborted otherwise; and if we aren't good enough Christians to be able to do that, it doesn't mean that it's justifiable for a child to be killed. A christian woman who got raped will certainly find it trying, but that doesn't mean she is justified in any way to get an abortion. Perhaps the child's father is a rapist, but he has another Father, and the child's life is neither the property of his earthly mother or father. Simply put, the decision is not theirs to make. Life does not belong to us no matter what. "This person causes me psychological and physiological issues, and so I must be justified in killing them." That sounds a bit different, now...
I think abortion is wrong also. I said there was NO debate there. My only problem was with people enforcing it on others who at the same time have nothing to offer the person they are telling to accept the baby. They may not be taking into account the fact that the obedience of Christians greatly outweights their personal judgement on what they can /cannot handle.
As I said, a priest advised that a woman should marry the person who raped her.
Being obedient, she did that. I've seen MANY similar cases, where out of "obedience" the priest's advice was given too much importance especially when they themselves were giving such moral advice yet were NOT offering ONE BIT OF HELP.
And as I said, in 90% of all problems i've seen in the Church, the priest AND HIS advice was the sole cause of the problem.
QT, I honestly agree with jydeacon. In the US, I have not seen such things. I am actually very close with my FOC and a number of other priests, and H.G. Bishop David himself. I have never seen such absurd things being imposed on others. Maybe the situation is different in the UK??
[quote author=Christ4Life link=topic=7824.msg101945#msg101945 date=1240025335] QT, I honestly agree with jydeacon. In the US, I have not seen such things. I am actually very close with my FOC and a number of other priests, and H.G. Bishop David himself. I have never seen such absurd things being imposed on others. Maybe the situation is different in the UK??
Yes, I know some very good bishops too.. and yes Anba David is someone whom i love tremendously.
However, from what i've seen, there are Bishops that seem to take refuge from the responsibilities of their actions by virtue of their priesthood.
Comments
these women need help and compassion, not a quick, socially appropriate answer.
like, if the woman has trouble getting married, people in church should provide free child care while she works part time or take her to live with them and not work, or anything esle other than suggesting she marries the man who abused her.
tina, well done for your stance on abortion at work, keep it up! there are even some gynaecologists who have suceeded in getting a job who don't do it. it will probably be hard for you at work, but God will bless you through that.
For those of you who don't know (is there anyone?) I am a female.
I honestly think (without any offense to anyone) that suggesting that a women marry the man who raped her is an insane remark. Mina, I honestly think that if you were a woman, you would never considering thinking such a thought, let alone suggesting and recommending it. I do not care where this woman is, even if it is second- world Egypt. Forcing her to marry this man will inevitably drive this woman to insanity. Whenever she looks at him she will remember the worst day of her life, and will hate him because of it. Surely the church does not recommend that a woman hate her husband.
Oh, and I suggested adoption! There are signs all over every high school in America of places where the government (ideally not the best place?) offers to take any unwanted child. By no means can we force a mother to provide care and love when she needs to be given care and love.
As for men marrying the raped mothers, I surely have seen many men who refuse the thought of marrying anyone but a virgin. It is common Egyptian stone- age thought. It is sad, but it widely exists.
And, one last request from me to all of the men on this forum: never ask someone to do something you would never be willing to do. Ever!
Sorry for being emotional, but this topic frustrates me because few people are willing to put themselves in the shoes of a raped woman to see how it feels.
The man that raped her repented. She lost her virginity so it was a bad thing, and so the priest recommended that the man who raped her marry the woman. He didnt really recommend.. I cannot really use the word "recommend". Coptic priests NEVER recommend - do they? Its more or less a case of "I am the mouth of God, and what I tell you, you will obey, or you will go to hell" - when someone develops this status for himself, then there is no dialogue. There is no recommendation. There is just his way, or the highway.
Being Coptic, one thing we all know is obedience. We are conditioned to be obedient just by virtue of our culture. This is magnified enormously by virtue of our Coptic faith that instills in us the values of obedience to our elders (and especially the priests). So - there is No dialogue with a priest.
Therefore, if you consider all the above issues I have mentioned (obedience and power we give to priests) - whatever they suggest is never a recommendation, and is never a suggestion. You will be treated badly if you go against their word.
And this has happened to me. They themselves will do the most IMMORAL things imaginable, and yet tell you (in case you complain) - "NO no.. He is the ambassador of God, you cannot talk back at him.. no no no no"
I'm just sharing this as with respect to rape - it shows what kind of advice a woman would be receiving IF she was Coptic.
I am not Egyptian, but I am a priest of the Coptic Orthodox Patriarchate and I would not speak as you suggest all Coptic priests speak, nor would I deny anyone the possibility of discussion about anything.
I have Coptic friends I have grown Orthodox with and who I have seen become priests as well over the last few years and I cannot believe that they have the view you describe either. This is not to deny it at all as I know that it does exist. But is it universal? I -cannot believe so. Is it the case that no-one here has a good and healthy relationship with their priests? I truly hope this is not the case.
Father Peter
QT, is that so among all Coptic priests?
I am not Egyptian, but I am a priest of the Coptic Orthodox Patriarchate and I would not speak as you suggest all Coptic priests speak, nor would I deny anyone the possibility of discussion about anything.
I have Coptic friends I have grown Orthodox with and who I have seen become priests as well over the last few years and I cannot believe that they have the view you describe either. This is not to deny it at all as I know that it does exist. But is it universal? I -cannot believe so. Is it the case that no-one here has a good and healthy relationship with their priests? I truly hope this is not the case.
Father Peter
Well, Fr. Peter, I haven't done a survey, but generally speaking, being obedient means obeying in the Coptic Church, and we are all raised to "obey".
Coptic priests may UNWITTINGLY find themselves in a position of huge power where their advice is always going to be taken so seriously. The priests would give us the SAME high standard that Mina is suggesting: i.e. that they keep the baby and that 2 wrongs do not make a right.
However, in EVERY situation i've been in, and without exception, not one priest has ever helped in a problem, but many times a few of them - including the bishops, have been the CAUSE of the problem, and then they play the "obedience" card to ensure that they can slap you and get away with it. If you scream, then you are not being a good Christian.
Its awful.
[quote author=peterfarrington link=topic=7824.msg101914#msg101914 date=1239874783]
QT, is that so among all Coptic priests?
I am not Egyptian, but I am a priest of the Coptic Orthodox Patriarchate and I would not speak as you suggest all Coptic priests speak, nor would I deny anyone the possibility of discussion about anything.
I have Coptic friends I have grown Orthodox with and who I have seen become priests as well over the last few years and I cannot believe that they have the view you describe either. This is not to deny it at all as I know that it does exist. But is it universal? I -cannot believe so. Is it the case that no-one here has a good and healthy relationship with their priests? I truly hope this is not the case.
Father Peter
Well, Fr. Peter, I haven't done a survey, but generally speaking, being obedient means obeying in the Coptic Church, and we are all raised to "obey".
Coptic priests may UNWITTINGLY find themselves in a position of huge power where their advice is always going to be taken so seriously. The priests would give us the SAME high standard that Mina is suggesting: i.e. that they keep the baby and that 2 wrongs do not make a right.
However, in EVERY situation i've been in, and without exception, not one priest has ever helped in a problem, but many times a few of them - including the bishops, have been the CAUSE of the problem, and then they play the "obedience" card to ensure that they can slap you and get away with it. If you scream, then you are not being a good Christian.
Its awful.
What you are saying is a gross over generalization. Not all priests do that. Maybe the ones you've seen in Europe but from what I've seen in the US, priests don't take advantage of this "power" they have as you put it.
please re-read what I wrote. Im NOT AT ALL saying that ALL priests are like that. I've met many that are not like this. In fact, I've met many that have complained to me personally of priests who are like that. lol
But , it is undeniable that the priests are given a huge amount of authority by virtue of the submissive nature they enforce in teaching us to be obedient. Their version of obedience is one that involves only obeying and no questioning and in many cases has no room for mercy.
It might be the case that some clergy are unfit for their position. But we should realize it is not the individual priest or bishop that we are respecting but the office they hold. In 1 Samuel 3 we see that even though the priest Eli was unholy he was still the one who help Samuel discern God’s voice. Also even though the priest of Jesus time were hypocrites Jesus order the ten lepers “He looked at them and said, “Go show yourselves to the priests.”” Luke 17:14.
Personally I found our COC clergy to be very humble and loving. They bear with our childish ways and listen to our confessions not with anger but compassion. They abandon promising earthly careers to serve us for the love of God. May the God who gives them His grace pay grant them great rewards in heaven.
If one strongly feels his/her abouna or bishop is not meeting their need then it will be appropriate to follow the three simple steps indicated in Matthew 18: 15 – 17. First and foremost, talk to him privately. If this doesn’t work then consider the other two options. However, without giving at least the first two steps a chance, which are recommended by our Lord Jesus Christ, it would not be wise to condemn them in public.
May God give us His grace to heed to our clergy least we transgress His word: Do not touch my chosen people… 1 Chronicles 16:22
Forgive me if this is not related with the current topic
Pray for me and my weakness
In Christ
Theophilus
i don't see what's the wrong with what they are doing right there. they were just trying to cover as much sins as possible.
Wow, I'm speechless. So is that what you learn at Church? Destroy someone's life to cover up sins of another. That's really sad that you are trying to justify it.
Isaiah 5:20 "Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness;
Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
Although I PERSONALLY can accept the statement you mentioned: i.e. "the mother or person should consider this as a test of faith" - i STILL, however, find it HUGELY INSULTING that a bishop would dare to impose his morals on others. He can consider it a test of faith for HIS personal life... but I don't think he has the right to suggest this for other people (who may not have may not even be christian or know God at all!!) especially if HE HIMSELF (not anyone else he knows!!!) is not willing to take care of a baby whose father raped his mother.
A bishop imposing his morals on others... There is something immensely disturbing about your statement. I thought there was a difference between "morals" and what the church decrees. Abortion is just wrong. It's not a matter of morals. I am very sorry that you think when a bishop states the church's views, which is his role as a shepherd, that you seem to find it offensive. That would mean that the church is just a corrupt organization trying to "impose morals" on the world. The church doesn't try to impose anything on anyone, neither do bishops. They say it like it is. Abortion is not accepted by the Coptic church unless the mother's life is in danger--simple as that.
As for abortion and rape, we as Christians should be willing to adopt a child if we knew it would get aborted otherwise; and if we aren't good enough Christians to be able to do that, it doesn't mean that it's justifiable for a child to be killed. A christian woman who got raped will certainly find it trying, but that doesn't mean she is justified in any way to get an abortion. Perhaps the child's father is a rapist, but he has another Father, and the child's life is neither the property of his earthly mother or father. Simply put, the decision is not theirs to make. Life does not belong to us no matter what. "This person causes me psychological and physiological issues, and so I must be justified in killing them." That sounds a bit different, now...
[quote author=minagir link=topic=7824.msg101857#msg101857 date=1239744527]
i don't see what's the wrong with what they are doing right there. they were just trying to cover as much sins as possible.
Wow, I'm speechless. So is that what you learn at Church? Destroy someone's life to cover up sins of another. That's really sad that you are trying to justify it.
Isaiah 5:20 "Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness;
Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
I can't speak on Mina's behalf, but I think you misunderstood what he said.
I understood from that statement that the priests are trying to AVOID more sins (i.e. 2 wrongs don't make a right). I know Mina a bit now, and I'm 99% sure that he meant to say "avoid" rather than "cover up".
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=7824.msg101755#msg101755 date=1239515678]
Although I PERSONALLY can accept the statement you mentioned: i.e. "the mother or person should consider this as a test of faith" - i STILL, however, find it HUGELY INSULTING that a bishop would dare to impose his morals on others. He can consider it a test of faith for HIS personal life... but I don't think he has the right to suggest this for other people (who may not have may not even be christian or know God at all!!) especially if HE HIMSELF (not anyone else he knows!!!) is not willing to take care of a baby whose father raped his mother.
A bishop imposing his morals on others... There is something immensely disturbing about your statement. I thought there was a difference between "morals" and what the church decrees. Abortion is just wrong. It's not a matter of morals. I am very sorry that you think when a bishop states the church's views, which is his role as a shepherd, that you seem to find it offensive. That would mean that the church is just a corrupt organization trying to "impose morals" on the world. The church doesn't try to impose anything on anyone, neither do bishops. They say it like it is. Abortion is not accepted by the Coptic church unless the mother's life is in danger--simple as that.
As for abortion and rape, we as Christians should be willing to adopt a child if we knew it would get aborted otherwise; and if we aren't good enough Christians to be able to do that, it doesn't mean that it's justifiable for a child to be killed. A christian woman who got raped will certainly find it trying, but that doesn't mean she is justified in any way to get an abortion. Perhaps the child's father is a rapist, but he has another Father, and the child's life is neither the property of his earthly mother or father. Simply put, the decision is not theirs to make. Life does not belong to us no matter what. "This person causes me psychological and physiological issues, and so I must be justified in killing them." That sounds a bit different, now...
I think abortion is wrong also. I said there was NO debate there. My only problem was with people enforcing it on others who at the same time have nothing to offer the person they are telling to accept the baby. They may not be taking into account the fact that the obedience of Christians greatly outweights their personal judgement on what they can /cannot handle.
As I said, a priest advised that a woman should marry the person who raped her.
Being obedient, she did that. I've seen MANY similar cases, where out of "obedience" the priest's advice was given too much importance especially when they themselves were giving such moral advice yet were NOT offering ONE BIT OF HELP.
And as I said, in 90% of all problems i've seen in the Church, the priest AND HIS advice was the sole cause of the problem.
QT, I honestly agree with jydeacon. In the US, I have not seen such things. I am actually very close with my FOC and a number of other priests, and H.G. Bishop David himself. I have never seen such absurd things being imposed on others. Maybe the situation is different in the UK??
Yes, I know some very good bishops too.. and yes Anba David is someone whom i love tremendously.
However, from what i've seen, there are Bishops that seem to take refuge from the responsibilities of their actions by virtue of their priesthood.