How to stop this wicked sin

edited December 1969 in Personal Issues
Can somebody please (now if this is inappropriate please forgive me) tell me how to stop masturbating. It is disgusting and sinful, and i need to repent. I was just wondering if anybody new any tricks or ways.







Pray for my weakness,
Michael

Comments

  • - prayer, more prayer and more prayer

    - true repentance

    - use the power of God to overcome it when you are tempted and that is the cross...St. Paul said "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God" (1 Corinthians 1:18)

    - seek guidance from your father of confession

    - switch it with something else that is useful when you are tempted...for example reading the bible, reading these forums, listening to a hymn or a spiritual song, memorize verses that pertain to this topic and repeat them...etc

    - finally try to use the few remaining weeks of Lent and say that you are going to fast from this sin....listen to this sermon and you'll know what i mean
    http://www.orthodoxsermons.org/index.php?option=com_docman&task=search_result

    i hope i helped and pray for my weakness...i would love to hear from others so that i may benefit as well
  • [quote author=geomike link=topic=7755.msg101178#msg101178 date=1237772732]
    Can somebody please (now if this is inappropriate please forgive me) tell me how to stop masturbating. It is disgusting and sinful, and i need to repent. I was just wondering if anybody new any tricks or ways.







    Pray for my weakness,
    Michael


    Hi,

    Try to keep your mind occupied at all times.

    Are you studying? Try learning a new language? create something.
    Don't spend too much alone, or let your mind wander.

    Also, I have to admit, fasting for lent, is in fact made for this. You are the ideal candidate. Apparently, the Church abstains from all animal products for the simple reason that it can act as something to increase sexual behaviour.

    Now, it is not the reason why many of us fast. We fast because it helps us have self control (for fighting against our sins.). I need to fast for completely different reasons than yourself.

    I would honestly suggest the following programme:

    a) When you wake up, don't just lie in bed and think idle thoughts. Just get up straight away.
    b) Nothing in the day should be spent doing anything idle.
    c) Let's say we're not fasting.. and we are in the normal period (non fasting) - I'd suggest honestly u take up a sport, and take it very seriously. I know most spiritual people don't care much for their bodies, and a lot of the deacons in our church are so thin and weak, but i really believe sport is essential for any healthy mind.

    Yes. I am a sports addict.

    I recommend that if you couldnt care less about sport, that you make yourself become interested in sport.

    The problem with fasting WITHOUT prayer is that fasting actually weakens the body, and if your body is weak, its a chance for your spirit to grow. However, if u don't pray when you are fasting, you're just going to have idle thoughts, AND idle behaviour. You'll be too tired to do anything.

    Therefore, discuss this problem with your FoC and tell him that you want to fast, but if he could suggest or allow u a regime of fasting that takes into account the need to do sport which should help you overcome this problem.

    The Coptic concept is this: If the body is weak, it makes the spirit strong. That's NOT completely true. If the body is weak, it is weak. What is true is that if the body is weak, and you pray during this period, then you gain a LOT spiritually. The problem is that perhaps u cannot pray EVERY second of EVERY day???

    If you can, great. If you cannot - then take up a sport.

    What you'll find is that doing exercise intensive sport will just exhaust you so much, and will keep your mind busy, healthy and your body in shape.

    Good luck.
  • Lets just say your not alone. this is a big problem i felt alot of people in our church just do not talk about or even touch upon.So a few of the churches here in the LA area decided to take into their own hands and  do a three part serious on purity. and at the end of the sermon we split up into  discussion groups.. the discussion groups consisted of males only and females only.And we talked openly about absolutley everything.I think the mere fact that we talked openly with each other really helped alot of us.and yes do not keep your body idle becuase your thoughts will be idle. Constant Prayer is crucial and try to memorize  bible verses..I know for me i am at youth meeting 4 times a week. and then church on sundays. so keep your fire lit in the church keep yourself busy if you have that luxury or that option. listen to sermons on orthodox sermons.com.. while doing something like cleaning your room. take the tv out of your room.. if there is one there.. and if the internet is your downfall  in this sin... and you feel your going to sin.... remeber the lord ..Always call upon the lord for help. or just run.. physcally run get up and move... the devil will always be able to attack you through your senses.. and these are all physcial. so act in a physical manner towards them .. run.. and if its your thoughts like for me it is, i heard somehting said by Pope Shenouda III, that your thoughts are like a bird that lands on your head. you cannot control it. but they are there. but you can prevent them from growing in your mind. and  you can push the bird of your head and prevent it from building a nest and laying eggs. Remeber it is a spiritual battle your body is a battle ground. and your fighting the lords fight. remeber to always call upon the lord.
    I hoped that helped. message me if anything .. build a support system wiht people around you...GOD BLESS
  • What part of the bible does it say exactly that masturbation is a sin? Can't you masturbate without lusting?
  • [quote author=Hailemikael link=topic=7755.msg101581#msg101581 date=1239034237]

    What part of the bible does it say exactly that masturbation is a sin? Can't you masturbate without lusting?


    I think this is a great question to ask Anba Moussa during the next youth conference.

    He will probably even thank you for asking it.
  • actually, it is in the Bible:

    Genesis 38:8-11
    And Judah said to Onan, "Go in to your brother's wife and marry her, and raise up an heir to your brother." 9 But Onan knew that the heir would not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in to his brother's wife, that he emitted on the ground, lest he should give an heir to his brother.  10 And the thing which he did displeased the Lord; therefore He killed him also. 11 Then Judah said to Tamar his daughter-in-law, "Remain a widow in your father's house till my son Shelah is grown." For he said, "Lest he also die like his brothers." And Tamar went and dwelt in her father's house.


    i think the verse is clear.
    it actually took me a while to find this verse after a servant lead me to it long time ago.
  • [quote author=minagir link=topic=7755.msg101586#msg101586 date=1239044653]
    actually, it is in the Bible:

    Genesis 38:8-11
    And Judah said to Onan, "Go in to your brother's wife and marry her, and raise up an heir to your brother." 9 But Onan knew that the heir would not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in to his brother's wife, that he emitted on the ground, lest he should give an heir to his brother.  10 And the thing which he did displeased the Lord; therefore He killed him also. 11 Then Judah said to Tamar his daughter-in-law, "Remain a widow in your father's house till my son Shelah is grown." For he said, "Lest he also die like his brothers." And Tamar went and dwelt in her father's house.


    i think the verse is clear.
    it actually took me a while to find this verse after a servant lead me to it long time ago.


    Hi Mina,

    Actually, Onan's sin was not that what he did amounted to masturbation (although it was more than this) - it was other things also.

    I think I had a chat with Fr. Peter about this, so I think its best to let him answer. He has proven that he is credible in answering.

    For me, masturbation is a sin, but the best reason why is best explained by the Catholic Church. They see it as egotistical love. Any sexual gratification outside marriage is sinful because you are only pleasing yourself. I just heard it on a radio.

    Its best to ask Fr. Peter. We are fortunate to have him here.
  • If sin is the exercise of our will in a way which is turned towards the gratification of self, rather than towards the glory of God, then we can surely see that sin is not a list of things which are wrong, but it is to do with our heart.

    It might be possible for us to imagine several scenarios where it is better to break the fast and then fast more strictly afterwards, if our will is turned towards pleasing God. Indeed we see this in the life of the Fathers. But for many of us - and priests are included as much as lay people - it is very easy to kid ourselves that on THIS occasion I am not sinning by breaking the fast, it is for a higher good, when in fact there might be no obstacle in the way of us keeping the fast quietly and discretely.

    We are with some non-Orthodox friends at lunch and someone says, 'Oh I am having a sandwich, what are you having?'. In such a case no-one is caused any inconvenience by us saying, 'Oh, I am not very hungry just now, but you go ahead'. In this case is seems to me that I would sin if I said to myself that I had better not offend my friends and should break the fast. Where is the sin? It is surely not in whether I eat or not, but in whether or not I seek to gratify myself or to glorify God. Must I really eat? Is it really so hard for me to last out the day, considering what God has already done for me, and continues to do for me?

    It seems to me to be the same with sexual temptation. The temptation is not so much to break a sexual rule - though there is that aspect of course - but it is to gratify ourselves rather than to glorify God. Does it matter so much if I notice an attractive woman, and then give her a second look? Well yes it does. Not because God has not made attractive women, but because in giving a second look, even a long stare, we are gratifying ourselves and not glorifying God. Some of the greatest saints could stare at a woman and only see the inner beauty, giving thanks to God, but even most of the greatest preferred to turn their eyes to the ground because the difference between being attracted by the beauty of God's creation, and failing into self-gratification is a knife edge.

    Is it not the same with the thought that a merely mechanistic practice of masturbation is free from blame? On the one hand we must say that even if it were then very easily it becomes more than a merely mechanical practice and becomes a deliberate self-gratification, and then a pleasure, and then an addiction. But even if the practice were always merely mechanistic we must ask, is this glorifying God or is it gratifying me? Perhaps once or twice it can be blameless? I do not know. But if it is used as an excuse then it becomes self-gratification and a regular practice.

    Returning to the practice of fasting. We may fail, but we would normally wish to say that though the practice of eating is natural to our human, animal nature, nevertheless as spiritual people we wish to direct the activities of our whole being towards God and so to break the fast unnecessarily and outside the instruction of our spiritual fathers will usually be sin - sin as the misdirection of our will. In the same way if we do not pray the rule of prayer we are set it will usually be sin - the misdirection of our will. The excuses we give will often be related to our human, animal nature. But we are made more than this by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

    Is what I am doing now helping me to grow more like Christ or less like Him? Am I glorifying Him or worrying about myself? Am I pleasing Him or pleasing myself? Is what I am doing of earthly, fading value, or of spiritual, eternal value?

    I don't like thinking in terms of lists of sins. These are often very black and white and I do not believe that the Christian life is a list of rule. But, I am convinced that it is a matter of holiness and of giving God the glory due to His name, otherwise we are not living the Christian life at all.

    Should we allow masturbation as a merely mechanical practice, as an allowance for our weakness? I don't think so. Let us say that we have failed to keep our eyes on Christ. If we have failed, and honestly repent, then He will pick us up and give us the grace to move on. Have we broken the fast? Have we stared at an attractive woman? Have we watched unhelpful programmes on the TV? Have we masturbated?

    These are all sinful actions, not because they are on a list of sins, but because the cause us to grieve the Holy Spirit who withdraws from us a little. And as we grow in grace we want to grieve the Spirit less and less because when He withdraws from us it is a spiritual and inner loss that becomes harder to bear.

    If I was training for an Olympic event in 2012 think how hard I would have to train. I would be up at 5am doing hard physical exertion. I would watch what I ate. I would be in bed early. I would train hard and live a life which gave me the best chance possible of winning a medal.

    Should we live the Christian life with any less effort? St Paul tells us clearly that we must run the race to win the prize. And this requires hard choices. An Olympic athlete chooses not to go out drinking with his friends so that he is fit to train and compete the next day. It is not easy. Nor is it for us. Sometimes we need to give up making excuses and just admit that we are sinners, not because we do things that are on a list of sins, but because we choose our own comfort and gratification over God's glory.

    Sometimes we just need to say 'No!' to ourselves, and say to God, 'I don't want to do this, but even the desire to stop doing it must come from You. Give me the grace I need to glorify you in my life, I can do nothing in my own strength.' And then we need to say, 'Lord, help me get through the week overcoming this sin'. And then set another small target, and then another. It is said that it takes 21 repetitions to embed a change in behaviour.

    Sin is about choices. We are all able to choose not to sin, whatever we say about our own circumstances. God will give us the grace we need, but we need to make even a halting effort to draw on that grace. Holiness is not avoiding a list of sins, it is a life lived with God first in our lives. There is always something more spiritually fruitful to be doing than masturbating, even if it were possible to do so without lust. Perhaps it is on occasion, but it seems to me that it is not possible to do so without pleasure, and therefore the desire for such pleasure. If we say 'I really need to masturbate' then we are not telling the truth. We do not need to masturbate, rather we want to masturbate, for a variety of reasons, but if we want to masturbate then it is a matter of will, and therefore the judgement must be made, is this exercise of the will in accordance with God's will for me now, or against God's will for me now. It is hard to see that it is ever in God's will when we could be praying or reading some spiritual material of singing hymns or helping someone do chores round the house, or engaging in physical exercise to subdue our animal passions. It seems to me that there is always some sense in which masturbation, under any circumstances, is a giving in to something other than God's will.

    With masturbation, which can often become an addiction, we just need to decide one day that it is pretty pathetic that a child of God, an heir of the kingdom, should be bound in such a way, or by smoking, or other addictive behaviour. We need to decide that we are not going to make excuses. We are not going to cut down our practice to manageable levels, there is no manageable level for turning away from God and pleasing ourselves. And if we fall then God will pick us up and we will do better the next day and the next. No excuses. We are not bound by our human, animal nature. He is not waiting for us to fail. And nor is our Spiritual Father. But he is willing us to succeed, and will give us what we need if we call out for His help. 'Lord help me to glorify you in my life'.

    This isn't meant to become a sermon, so I'll stop. But it also helps, with all self gratification, to believe that the way we life affects those around us. Our Church life is affected by our spiritual state. Our service is affected by our spiritual state. Our family is affected by our spiritual state. Our friends are affected by our spiritual state. It helps to have them in mind as well as the glory of God. If I do THIS or THAT, whatever those sins are, then my family will be hurt. My friends will be hurt. The life of our congregation will be hurt. This is a private sin, but it is not personal, it affects others. This will often help strengthen our resolve.

    It can also help to arrange to see our spiritual father more regularly and to seek with his prayers to stop this sin in between times. If we only see father after a great interval then we often only have bad news to share with him. If, for a while, we can see him regularly, then we will find that we have gone a week without committing this sin, and then perhaps two weeks, and three. And if we fall one week then his prayers and advice will help us to glorify God the next week.

    But we must beware of the knife-edges between a just about blameless action, and the momentary slip over the edge into sin. The great fathers avoided these knife-edges because they knew themselves and their own weaknesses. The excellent book 'Unseen Warfare' deals with these practical issues. It wisely counsels those to whom it is addressed to avoid seeing even their own bodies naked unnecessarily, and to avoid handling oneself, since this is not sin, but is an occasion for sin. As an evangelical I would have found this odd. But now, and as I get older and slightly more experienced, I see the great wisdom in avoiding even the occasion for sin. We are not as self-controlled as we usually imagine. It is better to be safe than sorry.

    May God truly bless and strengthen all those seeking to live a life of holiness

    Father Peter
  • firstly i just want to say and i know its not constructive or helpful
    but masturbating is gross, disgusting, sad, low, gross, disgusting, disgraceful, gross!

    now thats out of the way....
    the great lent is an awesome opportunity to let go of this sick sin and move on.....
    they always say take on another habit to get away from the old habit and its true...
    spend ur time doing something else like sports, spending time with ur family, reading a book! and hopefully day by day...u will lose the interest in such a gross sin....

    it will happen its jus a matter of time and inner strength....u can doo it son!

    God bless bro n take care of urself ;)
  • Thank you guys so much.







    Pray for me and my wickedness,
    Michael
  • [quote author=geomike link=topic=7755.msg101609#msg101609 date=1239074290]
    Thank you guys so much.







    Pray for me and my wickedness,
    Michael


    No worries Mike. I would only suggest that it is best now you've shared your life's intimate secret on the internet, and you've given your real name, you might as well go and tell abouna and confess it, and be done with it.

    Thanks for sharing mike.
  • Thank you guys for your help and support. May God reward greatly in heaven.





    Pray for me,
    Michael
  • And may God give you the grace of His Holy Spirit to overcome this sin, once and for all.

    Father Peter
  • i learnt a lot from father peter's post, thank you again  :)

    i want to clarify something, though, mainly for the ladies, although it may apply to some of the gents too.
    i think (and  have not found anything so far in scripture to support this nor to contradict it) that there is a difference between the occasional (once a month, once a year etc) practice of someone whose husband/wife is away on a long journey, in prison, just died etc and the habitual practice which is usually related to looking at pictures of naked people.

    what i didn't realise for many years was that when many guys (not necessarily in this topic, i am talking generally) and some girls talked about masturbation, they automatically included looking at pornography. i have had the 'priveledge' of having lots of non-Christian friends who have gone into detail with me on this subject far more than i wanted and i have since realised they just assume everyone does it. i think this is why people like hailemikael are reading this and thinking 'what's the big deal?' because many of us would never think that could happen!
    obviously porn is a big deal.

    however, in the other cases (married people thinking of their spouse), i think it's more a case of weakness than of sin.
    if you're not married, masturbation can awaken desire much more than it fulfils it. song of solomon 2 verse 7 tells us not to 'stir up or awaken love until it pleases'. so, for single people (and also for married people whose spouse is away) it is best to follow the advice above about how we can control ourselves.

    may God give us His strength in this holy season
  • Honestly, I don't think it's that bad of something to do. There are a lot worse things you can do.
  • what i am about to say is nothing compared to what Father Peter said....i have never learned so much from one post in my life. God Bless You and strengthen you in your service Father and may you always enlighten us with your knowledge and experience.

    after thinking more about this topic i arrived to a conclusion (correct me if i am wrong) that it's all about your will. if you truly from your heart want to stop a sin like this then with God's help you can. and by truly wanting to stop i mean that you hate the sin and hate that it lives inside you and that you're a slave to it and above all hate to ruin your image which is the image of God and hate to turn away from your all loving father. when you sin you're like a little child who leaves his father's hand and runs away. what can that little child achieve on his own? how lost will he be? it is the attitude of "i WILL not do it by the grace of God" and not the attitude "i will TRY not to do it".

    also, i think the reason that you want to stop is important as well. the reason should be that you love God your father too much and do everything that belongs to God in which sin does not. also because of the NEED you have in your heart to be with your father on Earth and for eternity.

    also, remember that "the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God" (1 Corinthians 1:18). USE IT!

    hopefully you understand what i am trying to say because i think my thoughts are all over the place.

    thanks and pray for me
  • [quote author=FindTheWayToday link=topic=7755.msg101715#msg101715 date=1239353571]
    Honestly, I don't think it's that bad of something to do. There are a lot worse things you can do.


    Just because there are worse things to do does not lessen the atrocity of a sin.

    Committing adultery is bad, but doing that while killing someone is worse.
    Killing one person is bad, but killing two is worse.
    Looking at women lustfully is bad, but physically committing the sin is much worse.

    Does the essence of the first sin make it seem any less bad when you put the second one next to it? I hope not, for if you think that way the devil will trick you into committing an infinite number of sins, for there is always "something worse" you can do.
  • I used to know someone who struggled with this sin-- did it initially young (not knowing it was a sin or had a name or was anything that anyone else did) and after learning it was a sin did it a few years later.

    This person was a servant in the church, and for him, just to remember the little, innocent, pure kids he served in church was enough for him to despise himself for committing it and try to stop. It can almost become an addiction. If you haven't done it too much , you'll have less trouble stopping.

    Think of the ugliness of the sin, put that before and then juxtapose it with something positive and pure, like kids you serve, your father of confession, your favorite saint, etc.

    This time of the Resurrection is not one of backsliding-- rather, it is one of Victory. Christ has taken care of everything-- all we have to do is accept what He's done for us and quite frankly, He's done too much for us to let go to waste.

    We should never lose hope, because St. Paul says that "where sin abounded, grace abounded much more." Sometimes it's the real ugly sins that lead us to true repentance and humility, because we see the sin in its true form-- ugly and repulsive and we feel enslaved and so we seek a new start with Christ all the more.

    Don't forget St. Paul who said in 2 Corinthians 5:17 that "If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away, behold, all things have been made new."

    Have you read the words of the hymn "Ya kul el sefoof"? You can read it here:
    http://tasbeha.org/media/index.php?st=Hymns/Major_Feasts_of_the_Lord/Resurrection/Ibrahim_Ayad/Part_2/05.Ya_Kolalsefof_-_O_Heavenly_Choirs_-_Arabic.1126.mp3

    Go confess if you haven't yet. The priest will guide you and help you.

    Don't lose hope-- Christ gave us hope in His Blood and Resurrection.

    The only thing we have to give Him is the life he gave to us. I got that from a song about Good Friday done by a Coptic person. I love watching it. Here is the link if anyone wants to see it:
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9083929271085743213&ei=f0jtSeWRJ5G8qwLQpOzAAw&q=good+friday+coptic&hl=en
  • I would like to add 2 verses of hope (they gave me hope when I needed it) both from Micah 7:
    Micah 7:8
    Do not rejoice over me, my enemy
    When I fall, I will arise
    When I sit in darkness
    The Lord will be a light to me

    God doesn't expect us not to fall. But it His greatest desire that when we fall, we will, by His grace, arise.
    I suppose the key is to stop believing you can overcome the sin because we can't. Only when we admit
    that we cannot and let God take control do we find peace and victory. Also, if thinking too much on your
    sin is leading you to despair or depression, or actually, even if it's not, don't think about yourself. Just think of Christ.
    Look to Christ. Don't be egocentric, be Christocentric. If your eyes are always on Christ-- you will view
    everthing in this world in a different light, everything will be lovely.

    The other verse is: Micah 7:18-19
    18 Who is a God like You,
          Pardoning iniquity
          And passing over the transgression of the remnant of His heritage?

          He does not retain His anger forever,
          Because He delights in mercy.
          19 He will again have compassion on us,
          And will subdue our iniquities.

          You will cast all our sins
          Into the depths of the sea.

    Christ is Risen!
    Indeed He is Risen!
  • [quote author=the_least link=topic=7755.msg102059#msg102059 date=1240285376]
    what i am about to say is nothing compared to what Father Peter said....i have never learned so much from one post in my life. God Bless You and strengthen you in your service Father and may you always enlighten us with your knowledge and experience.

    after thinking more about this topic i arrived to a conclusion (correct me if i am wrong) that it's all about your will. if you truly from your heart want to stop a sin like this then with God's help you can. and by truly wanting to stop i mean that you hate the sin and hate that it lives inside you and that you're a slave to it and above all hate to ruin your image which is the image of God and hate to turn away from your all loving father. when you sin you're like a little child who leaves his father's hand and runs away. what can that little child achieve on his own? how lost will he be? it is the attitude of "i WILL not do it by the grace of God" and not the attitude "i will TRY not to do it".

    also, i think the reason that you want to stop is important as well. the reason should be that you love God your father too much and do everything that belongs to God in which sin does not. also because of the NEED you have in your heart to be with your father on Earth and for eternity.

    also, remember that "the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God" (1 Corinthians 1:18). USE IT!

    hopefully you understand what i am trying to say because i think my thoughts are all over the place.

    thanks and pray for me


    Besides all the great answers and your great answer, I have one comment and question about yours that I think if answered can be helpful to some. You mentioned that one has to sincerely want to stop. I think thats a desire all those that do it  or struggle with any sin have, however its weakness that overcomes them and causes the sin to be committed. The will is there definately and there is a struggle.. I think the issue is they can not hate the sin, since its something that feels good/relieves stress/pleasureable..etc etc.  So the question I think is. How can one hate the sin? Generally speaking it doesnt have to be specific to only this sin and this category. I personally would like an answer for that for my benefit, I struggle with many sins that I would like to overcome, the will is there.. but idk so much about the hate.

    One thing I would like to add to everything that was said is, avoid the occasion of sin and in the beginning of the journey to stop is just lessen the frequency of the occurrence of the sin gradually. For example: if the sin is committed lets say 10 times a day (which i think is impossible..but for the sake of the example work with me..) let it be 8 times and work on that for a couple weeks, a month, whatever until you master doing it only 8 times. After that lessen it to say 5 times..and the same thing and keep going down the numbers until you completely stop. It will require alot of self control, but its possible. Just keep praying and have faith in Him. You will NOT do this alone, guaranteed.  May God help all those struggling with this, and all other sins and guide us through out the way into His kingdom.
    God bless.

    GBU, please pray for the forgiveness of my inequities
  • Dear GBU

    I think that we have to truly believe that whatever sin is particulary a temptation for us is truly hurtful to God and others.

    If we have lustful thoughts these really change the world and make it worse as well as our own hearts. We grieve God, we sin against others in our hearts, we harden our hearts so that we are not the body of Christ, serving the world.

    If we do not have these feelings then we must ask God for them, because if we actually think that a sin is OK then however much we say we want to stop actually our actions show that we do not want to.

    God is greater than all sin, all habit and addiction. We need his grace but he does not will us to be bound by any sin at all.

    There is someone close to me who will say one thing, and then repeat it a few minutes later, and then yet again! I have sinned against this person by becoming irritated, even if I say nothing my irritation affects how I deal with this person for a little while. Not to say that it also affects my relationship with God at that time. Suddenly its all about me! That is what sin is. I have to keep in my mind at all times that my sin harms other people, even if there is no direct connection, because we are all united and what affects one affects all.

    In terms of lust it is helpful whenever some image or person is presented before us as an object of sin to pray for that person, asking the Lord to bless them and forgive us. Otherwise we sin against them, against God and against his image in us and them. This often helps to overcome temptation. These are real people that we are making objects out of instead of seeing Christ in them.

    Father Peter
  • Thank you soo much Father Peter.
    That answers my question very well and makes alot of sense. I have yet to learn to hate sins so I can finally stop them.
    God bless and reward you.

    Prayers needed.
  • [quote author=FindTheWayToday link=topic=7755.msg101715#msg101715 date=1239353571]
    Honestly, I don't think it's that bad of something to do. There are a lot worse things you can do.


    if we all think of sins this way, NO ONE will be saved!!!
  • [quote author=Joyful in Him link=topic=7755.msg102072#msg102072 date=1240303068]
    How can one hate the sin?


    Fr. Peter already answered this and again my answer is nothing compared to his

    very simply (this is a very wise answer that was told to me when i asked a similar question) you hate sin because you love God - because he is your father and you NEED to be with him. also, you love all that belongs to Him and sin doesn't belong to him - it is not of his nature. you hate being alone far from Him which is the result of sin.

    another thought: imagine if you have no one in the world but your father (God) and you sin against Him and go to prison and you hate it. Then, He comes and breaks the bars and tells you that you are free and that he fully forgives you and loves you even to the point of death. Are you going to go with Him or stay in prison? Every time you sin it is like leaving the joy and the glory of being with your father and going back into prison with your own will. Think of how foolish this is. God has freed you! Why don't you want to be free and live with him forever in joy.

    this is why you should hate sin because of how foolish it is and because you love your father so much and want to be with him no matter what stands in your way.

    thanks and God Bless and pray for my weakness
  • [quote author=the_least link=topic=7755.msg102115#msg102115 date=1240345803]
    [quote author=Joyful in Him link=topic=7755.msg102072#msg102072 date=1240303068]
    How can one hate the sin?


    Fr. Peter already answered this and again my answer is nothing compared to his

    very simply (this is a very wise answer that was told to me when i asked a similar question) you hate sin because you love God - because he is your father and you NEED to be with him. also, you love all that belongs to Him and sin doesn't belong to him - it is not of his nature. you hate being alone far from Him which is the result of sin.

    another thought: imagine if you have no one in the world but your father (God) and you sin against Him and go to prison and you hate it. Then, He comes and breaks the bars and tells you that you are free and that he fully forgives you and loves you even to the point of death. Are you going to go with Him or stay in prison? Every time you sin it is like leaving the joy and the glory of being with your father and going back into prison with your own will. Think of how foolish this is. God has freed you! Why don't you want to be free and live with him forever in joy.

    this is why you should hate sin because of how foolish it is and because you love your father so much and want to be with him no matter what stands in your way.

    thanks and God Bless and pray for my weakness


    Thank you soo much for your reply. Every word you said, is very true. I agree 100%. As much as I know that and realize its importance, I doubt the presence of hate of the sin in myself because I always have the same list of sins as I am going to confession. I put an effort to stop, but it seems like I cant stop them because they have became soo much like a habbit. I dont notice I committed a sin until its too late after I have done it. Sometimes a few minutes later thinking about something I said..or just evaluating events of the day before I sleep. They are not soo much consciously committed. For example one of my more frusterating sins that I can never catch myself before doing is saying Gods name in vain... something happens right away "oh my God" well I have made the transition to say gosh instead of God... but its just as bad. What makes me guilty the most, when I am reminded of what the people that translated and wrote the bible did when they were going to write the word "GOD" ..and how they had to purify themselves and wash their hands and get a new feather and ink and everything.. as honor for the name and I disrespect it and use it verry freely and loosly in this manner. God deserves MUCH better than that.
    -I greatly dislike my sins, and are verrry annoyed that I commit them after allllll these years..i am still stuck in the same spiritual grade. Unlike the sin of this topic, they arent even pleasureable, there is NO benefit in them whatsoever, I just dont notice my sins. Any ideas or suggestions of how to be cautious, and sensitive of actions or words to prevent it before happening?? When I do notice or see the temptation of w/e it is coming my way, I put a strong effort to not do it, say it, think it..etc.
    Any help would be appreciated..

    please pray for the forgiveness of my many inequities
    God bless
  • Dear to Christ, the Lord will reward your desire to be free from these sins.

    I was fortunate to grow up in an evangelical Christian home where I was not even allowed to say shut-up, much less any other bad words, and I was brought up to never use the name of the Lord in such a way, and even now I find it most disturbing when I hear people close to me use it in such a way, completely unconsciously. This seems to me to show the value of good habits - not using the name of the Lord in such a way does not make me a better Christian, because I have many other inward sins, but by having a built in uncomfortableness about speaking in such a way I am at least preserved from this - thanks to my parents.

    Might I suggest that you choose an hour in the day, the same hour, when you think you will be able to be most able to concentrate on this issue. I don't know if you are at school or college or work. But set a reminder on your phone or watch when the hour starts and then simply watch yourself before you say anything. And try to speak less. I remember St Arsenius (I think) said that he had often sinned when speaking but rarely when keeping silent.

    Begin this hour with a prayer, asking God to grant you grace and help and awareness of your actions, and as far as possible fill the hour with the Jesus Prayer - Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me, with scripture if possible (why not learn one or two psalms). If you are able to pray one of the hours from the Agpeya at this time as well then that might be a help.

    But try to both fill the time positively with thoughts of Christ, and with attention on what you are saying. Try for this hour not to answer anyone immediately, but pause for a second to collect your thoughts and words. And if it is possible to be silent through the hour and remain in prayer then that is good as well.

    We should always try to overcome sin - which is a turning of our will away from God - with a positive turning of our hearts and minds towards God, which is holiness. Simply gritting our teeth and insisting that we will not do this anymore doesn't really work because it is trusting in ourselves.

    Perhaps begin by only seeking not to use the name of the Lord in vain during this hour. Count how many times you become aware that you have used it in such a way during the hour, and repent, and seek to do better then next day with God's help until you pass several days without having used his name during the hour in an inappropriate way. Then perhaps when you have discovered that with God's help you can go this hour in controlling your tongue extend it to two hours, but always try to keep the focus on God and on being collected within yourself. And then three and so on. After a while it will become uncomfortable for you to use his name lightly.

    These are only some ideas. But do begin slowly to gain control of your tongue with God's help and offer it to him as a living sacrifice. Do not plunge straight into making commitments which you do not have the strength to fulfill.

    May God bless you and his saints intercede for you

    Father Peter
  • Father Peter,
    Thank you sooo much again. That is perfect. I will definately try that and work towards it.
    I already generally barely talk, so that will be the easy part (although I am trying to change that..)
    Thanks ALOT for the advice! This helps alooot. May God reward and bless your service.
    keep me in your prayers please
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