Coptic lawyers are trying to get the movie banned...
The story is about an older christian lady who gets divorced from her husband, falls in love with a younger man and then becomes pregnant. Actors of the movie claim this movie will change a lot for christian women and enable them to divorce...
in other words, they want to change church rules...
Copt threatens suit over divorce film in Egypt Written by Administrator Tuesday, 03 February 2009 00:40
A controversial movie still in production about a Coptic Christian woman in Egypt who has a baby out of wedlock after the church’s refusal to grant her a divorce has come under fire from Coptic activists who are seeking to ban the movie for insulting Christianity. Coptic lawyer and activist Nabil Ghobrial warned in an official filing Monday that the Coptic church would sue those involved in the film as well as governmental authorities if production was not halted or the film censored.
He called for the Grand Imam of al-Azhar, the leading religious authority in Egypt, to intervene and issue a ban on the movie, Wahid Sifr (One Zero). Sheikh Muhammad Sayyed Tantawi, as head of the Islamic Research Center, is charged of reviewing books and films with religious content
This is the first time the center has been asked to intervene in a work involving Christianity, traditionally the exclusive domain of the Coptic Orthodox Church. The filing, specifically addresses the two leading actors, the Coptic scriptwriter, Egypt’s prime minister and the censorship authority.
"If they do not respond within a week of receiving it, I have the right to submit a complaint to the Attorney General against all parties involved in the film," said Ghobrial.
The film has already begun shooting in Cairo Media City, and Ghobrial threatened to add the head of the media free-zone to the complaint if he does not close down production.
But the film’s supporters argue that the movie deals with a civil and social issue, not a religious one.
"The film is about the difficulties Copts face to obtain divorce and get a permission to remarry," Scriptwriter Marian Naaoun told the Egyptian magazine Rose al-Youssef. She said she consulted a Christian cleric and a lawyer while writing the script and stressed that she felt she was very considerate in the way she tackled this sensitive issue.
The movie follows three interwoven stories, one of them about a Coptic woman who is not granted permission by the church to remarry because her divorce was not recognized as valid. Though her friends urge her to convert to Islam to be granted the divorce the observant Christian cannot deny her faith and ends up having a baby out of wedlock.
The Coptic Church grants divorce only in two cases: adultery and conversion to another sect.
In an interview on Egyptian state TV before shooting started, leading actress Elham Shahin said she hoped the movie would change Coptic church’s current divorce laws.
The lead actor, Ahmed al-Fishawi, predicted the movie would cause controversy during the same interview because it calls for granting Christian women the right of divorce. Ghobrial sought to garner support his request for intervention from al-Azhar with previous statements made by Sheikh Gamal Qotb, former head of al-Azhar's Fatwa Committee, who urged the censors to ban any movie that harms the image of Christianity. He said the sheikh considered it inappropriate for artistic works to deal with or criticize religious doctrines or laws.
"The movie tackles one of the seven secrets of the church—marriage," Ghobrial told AlArabiya. "It calls for changing biblical marriage and divorce laws."
Coptic Church spokesman Bishop Morqos pointed out the need to seek approval from the church to ensure the film did not contradict the Christian faith.
"We are not against creativity," Morqos told AlArabiya "But when this creativity is about Christianity then the church has to be consulted."
Morqos denied that the church was assuming the role of censor, but then said experts on the film’s subject matter should be required to approve. But some Coptic Christians did not understand what the controversy was all about since the divorce issue is not under wraps and saw no reason to ban the film.
“The issue of divorce and Coptic Church is well known in Egypt and there is no need to bother censoring the film,” Heba Adel, a 26-year-old Coptic Christian, “It is not like the film will force the Coptic Church to change its doctrine," she added, saying she opposed the legal notice and thought it would be ineffective.
This is disgusting. Something has to be done. She actually thinks the Church will change its doctrine because of an uncensored movie she intends to film? Think again.
You know, on one hand I think it's frankly very stupid to even think the church will change anything because of a movie and so a movie like this has no point
but in the end, let them say what they want and do what they want, our church is not afraid of anything and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it
so if we support freedom of speech, then why would we want to forbid the movie?
how many of us liked the movie fitna, where Geert Wilders asked muslims to tear out the pages in the Koran which are teaching violence? He was asking them to 'change' their religion, wasn't he?
I'm not saying I agree with this movie, or any other movie that critizises religion, because religion has to be dealt with in a respectful manner, no matter which religion it is.. and some of the movies or clips I've seen so far seem to be only inciting hatred and/or making fun of other people's beliefs, this is something I don't agree with at all If a movie, however, is portraying an opinion in a respectful manner, then I don't see why not, why forbid it, where's the freedom, where do you draw the line, ban any movie which has an opinion you don't agree with?
If this movie was a documentary meant to teach about christianity, then it would be a different thing, but a movie, like any other, just a movie..
Ban the Da Vinci Code? Burn the book? Shut up all atheists, moslims, hindus, jews for having different opinions, different views?
The Coptic church should by no means be swayed by a movie. Its foundations are solid and will never be changed. Actually I think something positive might come from this movie. It may raise awareness of this issue and the chuch might try to come up with solutions to avoid finding women in such situations. Maybe more pre-marriage and marriage counseling offered. More services available to such women so they don't leave the church. Apparently this is a reality and blinding our eyes to it and banning this movie does not make it go away.
as an author, it really does get on my nerves when the church over reacts over an artistic idea... weather it be a book or movie or whatever including paintings... for example in one of my plays I talk about sexuality during the youth years of a some Coptics, it involves a girl losing her virginity to a guy, that is just a part of the story, not even fully what the story is about... I was attacked for that.... in one of my novels there is a story of a guy who comes to states from Egypt.. and he happens to become sexually active... in another novel I'm talking about Saint Mary the Egyptian in modern day life... I don't even have to elaborate on why I was attacked on that one! even in my drawings, I painted a picture of MY view of how sometimes the priests are not doing all they can... which is just a painting of a person climbing a ladder while tripping and there is a priest is just watching from afar and not helping... and people on the side pointing and also not helping (servants) and a bishop just sitting on his chair, watching the priest... for that one I was actually called a hieratic, even thought it was just MY view of something, never really told them how to view it... and I was not showing it to anyone, people happened to see it when they came into my room!
so for me i was attacked first handed... so I know exactly how the writer must feel... "According to Naguib Mekhail, a Coptic human rights activist, there are several thousand Coptic women who face the same dilemma discussed in the movie." this problem is going on... if this is so horrid, I think the same story if not worse, much worse was done about muslims! so its nothing made against the church... we live in a time where media has a big role in our lives, this is just a story, and it happens... and an author chose to write about it so whats the big deal?! its not imposing that all coptics are like that! the author is a female who is a christian and lives in Egypt, she chose to write a story and was able to get it in the media... then there is nothing wrong with it! I'm a youth that lives in America, and I saw and have experienced many things I wrote about... and now for my plays and my novels, I've been getting some producers that have been wanting to make them into movies... do you think I'll disagree?!
for authors their writing is a like their child as I was told by one of the monks... as a parent they like seeing their child grow and be loved by all... I'm not against the church by any way shape of form, but I just think there is over-reacting to the situation, and people need to mellow out just a little bit!
What message are you trying to achieve through your writings? Who is your audience? Is your audience coptic children? If so - what age?
Many coptic youth lose their virginities before marriage - are your stories there to highlight the ones that really ran away from temptations? Or to glamourise fornication?
Movies as well should be responsible. Authors and artists of all sorts, should be asking themselves "is what I am doing helping the situation, or making it worse"?
Hollywood is quite powerful. The opinion of directors influences others. Can you deny that the media doesnt influence? Its well known that people are influenced in the media.
So, if I'm writing a story about St Mary the Egyptian, am I encouraging prostitution or repentance? Am I glamourising her sinful lifestyle to show that "its not so bad", or am I showing how easy it is to end up as a prostitute, and how regretful she must feel by being deceived at how she was influenced??
As an author, we must be asking ourselves one question on everything we do: Is what we are doing or producing EDIFYING to others?
If you think in your heart that what you are doing is for the greater good of humanity, then great. If you feel that you are just exercising your right to "free speech", you must bear one thing in mind: You have a right to freedom of speech. The same way you have a right to raise your hands in the air. But your right to raise your arms in the air STOPS when your hands touches the chin of the person next to you. If you continue on your agenda to raise your arms knowing that there's a man standing next to you, then your freedom automatically is seen as offensive and violent
So, in all things artistic that are on display or available for public viewing, is what we are doing hurting someone around us? Is the exercise of my freedom at the detriment of someone's values or beliefs??
What message are you trying to achieve through your writings? Who is your audience? Is your audience coptic children? If so - what age?
the message is barely all about sexuality, but sexuality has to do with the endings, and the storyline, and of course it's something going on with the youth, thus the reason why I attack such a topic! except a research book about relationships that straight forward talks about sex in premarital relations...
my audience for these books are coptic youth from the ages of 15 to however old... the children have their own books, lol in which i do not mention anything about sex...
Many coptic youth lose their virginities before marriage - are your stories there to highlight the ones that really ran away from temptations? Or to glamourise fornication?
my stories are for youth that mess up, who went through the life of sin... but yet God is there to accept us back, I'm not glamorizing fornication by anyway... I'm just telling the youth God loves you, even if your sins were so horrid! so really I am writing for these youth that for example who lost their virginity before marriage, they can know that God is there to forgive and forget... but with true repentance! so in my stories nobody runs away from the temptation... but rather falls in it!
Movies as well should be responsible. Authors and artists of all sorts, should be asking themselves "is what I am doing helping the situation, or making it worse"?
if everyone thought the same way, then your question can easily be answered! but as the sword is double edged, so is the pen! I'm sure some youth will read the story and get the message right away... and some will read it or watch it, and it wouldn't click with them! but for example in one of my stories I talk about how there is no time... a person can die anytime with their sin... and be tormented for eternity... and because its about youth, I'm putting no age criteria to death! but due to this story some people will see it and say this will never happen... so that brings me back to the sword is double edged, the pen is a sword...
Hollywood is quite powerful. The opinion of directors influences others. Can you deny that the media doesnt influence? Its well known that people are influenced in the media.
I didn't make to the main stream yet... but hopefully in due time and according to God's mighty will! but hopefully if I make it to Hollywood, in my opinion there is a good message much better than many of the movies coming out now!
So, if I'm writing a story about St Mary the Egyptian, am I encouraging prostitution or repentance? Am I glamourising her sinful lifestyle to show that "its not so bad", or am I showing how easy it is to end up as a prostitute, and how regretful she must feel by being deceived at how she was influenced??
when I wrote the story of saint Mary, I didn't encourage prostitution... I just talked about her life as a prostitute... and its a modern day story, so it starts by her dating... she gives her virginity away by the age of seventeen... and I escalate from there, about a Coptic non virgin in California... and how as a youth she just went on with it, and as saint Mary, she did it for the "ACTION" not for the money... but yet her life style will lead her to her salvation! and how sweet repentance is... but her life of repentance is about 3 chapters... while there are 20+ chapters that are talking about her life from birth to repentance! its a novel, don't forget that, so there is love, suspense, everything that will catch the readers' thought! so you be the judge!
As an author, we must be asking ourselves one question on everything we do: Is what we are doing or producing EDIFYING to others?
I always have a message from my writing... I don't just talk about two people having sex... I'm not writing a passion novel, or an adult novel... I'm writing a rated PG15 story... and I can guarantee you 250 percent there is nothing new that the youth have not seen/heard in person... or on tv!
If you think in your heart that what you are doing is for the greater good of humanity, then great. If you feel that you are just exercising your right to "free speech", you must bear one thing in mind:
You have a right to freedom of speech. The same way you have a right to raise your hands in the air. But your right to raise your arms in the air STOPS when your hands touches the chin of the person next to you. If you continue on your agenda to raise your arms knowing that there's a man standing next to you, then your freedom automatically is seen as offensive and violent
I don't need to exercise freedom of speech... if you know me, you'd know if there is something on my mind, I WILL SAY IT... so I didn't write all these novels to freedom of speech... the only reason I started writing, is when I was in the protestant churches all I wanted to achieve is a church full of youth... they did that by acting plays, and whenever I saw their plays, I always thought I can do better! so I said i will start a something new... and I remember i went bought a new notebook, and a new pen... because they were my sacrifice and I didn't want it to previously have been used for anything, but the action of God!!! it was intended for the Coptic church only but do to church politics and "priest drama" I started working on the play to be for the Orthodox churches... then due to it being self funded I made it for all Christians yet focusing on heavily populated Egyptian areas... and do to the amount of work... I stopped... and now producers heard about it... and that's how its a nationwide "everybody" story about Coptic youth!
So, in all things artistic that are on display or available for public viewing, is what we are doing hurting someone around us? Is the exercise of my freedom at the detriment of someone's values or beliefs??
when I write something I well research it... and I make sure its well with the dogma, if you read anything in my plays, novels or anything I write, it does not hurt the coptic church by anyway... but talking to the youth about how something so small might escalate, and hurt us in the end... and the fact that not all copts are virgins! but when it comes to dogma and beliefs I make sure I pay VERY close attention to it!
also may I add there are many priests that read my stuff... and all they disagreed on is a maybe a line or two in the whole thing, they were worried about the comfort of the audience, yet they see worse in movies! but the reason I mention that is that non of the dogma or beliefs I have in my work is criticized by the priests!
another thing is in one of my plays I had a kissing scene, that's what pushed my priests away from even reading it! which I did remove, but is back now that its being produced!
[quote author=Rowyn link=topic=7631.msg104867#msg104867 date=1248331749] Thanks for the briefing QT_PA_2T. What the church rules to be changed in this movie? I don't exactly get the point.
from what i have heard, the movie was banned already.
Comments
The story is about an older christian lady who gets divorced from her husband, falls in love with a younger man and then becomes pregnant.
Actors of the movie claim this movie will change a lot for christian women and enable them to divorce...
in other words, they want to change church rules...
I was also wondering if anyone has any news about the movie, or heard reviews?
Copt threatens suit over divorce film in Egypt
Written by Administrator
Tuesday, 03 February 2009 00:40
A controversial movie still in production about a
Coptic Christian woman in Egypt who has a baby
out of wedlock after the church’s refusal to
grant her a divorce has come under fire from
Coptic activists who are seeking to ban the movie for insulting Christianity.
Coptic lawyer and activist Nabil Ghobrial warned
in an official filing Monday that the Coptic
church would sue those involved in the film as
well as governmental authorities if production
was not halted or the film censored.
He called for the Grand Imam of al-Azhar, the
leading religious authority in Egypt, to
intervene and issue a ban on the movie, Wahid
Sifr (One Zero). Sheikh Muhammad Sayyed Tantawi,
as head of the Islamic Research Center, is
charged of reviewing books and films with religious content
This is the first time the center has been asked
to intervene in a work involving Christianity,
traditionally the exclusive domain of the Coptic Orthodox Church.
The filing, specifically addresses the two
leading actors, the Coptic scriptwriter, Egypt’s
prime minister and the censorship authority.
"If they do not respond within a week of
receiving it, I have the right to submit a
complaint to the Attorney General against all
parties involved in the film," said Ghobrial.
The film has already begun shooting in Cairo
Media City, and Ghobrial threatened to add the
head of the media free-zone to the complaint if
he does not close down production.
But the film’s supporters argue that the movie
deals with a civil and social issue, not a religious one.
"The film is about the difficulties Copts face to
obtain divorce and get a permission to remarry,"
Scriptwriter Marian Naaoun told the Egyptian magazine Rose al-Youssef.
She said she consulted a Christian cleric and a
lawyer while writing the script and stressed that
she felt she was very considerate in the way she tackled this sensitive issue.
The movie follows three interwoven stories, one
of them about a Coptic woman who is not granted
permission by the church to remarry because her
divorce was not recognized as valid. Though her
friends urge her to convert to Islam to be
granted the divorce the observant Christian
cannot deny her faith and ends up having a baby out of wedlock.
The Coptic Church grants divorce only in two
cases: adultery and conversion to another sect.
In an interview on Egyptian state TV before
shooting started, leading actress Elham Shahin
said she hoped the movie would change Coptic church’s current divorce laws.
The lead actor, Ahmed al-Fishawi, predicted the
movie would cause controversy during the same
interview because it calls for granting Christian women the right of divorce.
Ghobrial sought to garner support his request for
intervention from al-Azhar with previous
statements made by Sheikh Gamal Qotb, former head
of al-Azhar's Fatwa Committee, who urged the
censors to ban any movie that harms the image of
Christianity. He said the sheikh considered it
inappropriate for artistic works to deal with or
criticize religious doctrines or laws.
"The movie tackles one of the seven secrets of
the church—marriage," Ghobrial told AlArabiya.
"It calls for changing biblical marriage and divorce laws."
Coptic Church spokesman Bishop Morqos pointed out
the need to seek approval from the church to
ensure the film did not contradict the Christian faith.
"We are not against creativity," Morqos told
AlArabiya "But when this creativity is about
Christianity then the church has to be consulted."
Morqos denied that the church was assuming the
role of censor, but then said experts on the
film’s subject matter should be required to approve.
But some Coptic Christians did not understand
what the controversy was all about since the
divorce issue is not under wraps and saw no reason to ban the film.
“The issue of divorce and Coptic Church is well
known in Egypt and there is no need to bother
censoring the film,” Heba Adel, a 26-year-old
Coptic Christian, “It is not like the film will
force the Coptic Church to change its doctrine,"
she added, saying she opposed the legal notice
and thought it would be ineffective.
but in the end, let them say what they want and do what they want, our church is not afraid of anything and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it
so if we support freedom of speech, then why would we want to forbid the movie?
how many of us liked the movie fitna, where Geert Wilders asked muslims to tear out the pages in the Koran which are teaching violence? He was asking them to 'change' their religion, wasn't he?
I'm not saying I agree with this movie, or any other movie that critizises religion, because religion has to be dealt with in a respectful manner, no matter which religion it is.. and some of the movies or clips I've seen so far seem to be only inciting hatred and/or making fun of other people's beliefs, this is something I don't agree with at all
If a movie, however, is portraying an opinion in a respectful manner, then I don't see why not, why forbid it, where's the freedom, where do you draw the line, ban any movie which has an opinion you don't agree with?
If this movie was a documentary meant to teach about christianity, then it would be a different thing, but a movie, like any other, just a movie..
Ban the Da Vinci Code? Burn the book? Shut up all atheists, moslims, hindus, jews for having different opinions, different views?
God bless
The Coptic church should by no means be swayed by a movie. Its foundations are solid and will never be changed. Actually I think something positive might come from this movie. It may raise awareness of this issue and the chuch might try to come up with solutions to avoid finding women in such situations. Maybe more pre-marriage and marriage counseling offered. More services available to such women so they don't leave the church. Apparently this is a reality and blinding our eyes to it and banning this movie does not make it go away.
+mahraeel+
so for me i was attacked first handed... so I know exactly how the writer must feel... "According to Naguib Mekhail, a Coptic human rights activist, there are several thousand Coptic women who face the same dilemma discussed in the movie." this problem is going on... if this is so horrid, I think the same story if not worse, much worse was done about muslims! so its nothing made against the church... we live in a time where media has a big role in our lives, this is just a story, and it happens... and an author chose to write about it so whats the big deal?! its not imposing that all coptics are like that! the author is a female who is a christian and lives in Egypt, she chose to write a story and was able to get it in the media... then there is nothing wrong with it! I'm a youth that lives in America, and I saw and have experienced many things I wrote about... and now for my plays and my novels, I've been getting some producers that have been wanting to make them into movies... do you think I'll disagree?!
for authors their writing is a like their child as I was told by one of the monks... as a parent they like seeing their child grow and be loved by all... I'm not against the church by any way shape of form, but I just think there is over-reacting to the situation, and people need to mellow out just a little bit!
akhadna el baraka... neshkor Allah!
What message are you trying to achieve through your writings? Who is your audience? Is your audience coptic children? If so - what age?
Many coptic youth lose their virginities before marriage - are your stories there to highlight the ones that really ran away from temptations? Or to glamourise fornication?
Movies as well should be responsible. Authors and artists of all sorts, should be asking themselves "is what I am doing helping the situation, or making it worse"?
Hollywood is quite powerful. The opinion of directors influences others. Can you deny that the media doesnt influence? Its well known that people are influenced in the media.
So, if I'm writing a story about St Mary the Egyptian, am I encouraging prostitution or repentance? Am I glamourising her sinful lifestyle to show that "its not so bad", or am I showing how easy it is to end up as a prostitute, and how regretful she must feel by being deceived at how she was influenced??
As an author, we must be asking ourselves one question on everything we do: Is what we are doing or producing EDIFYING to others?
If you think in your heart that what you are doing is for the greater good of humanity, then great. If you feel that you are just exercising your right to "free speech", you must bear one thing in mind:
You have a right to freedom of speech. The same way you have a right to raise your hands in the air. But your right to raise your arms in the air STOPS when your hands touches the chin of the person next to you. If you continue on your agenda to raise your arms knowing that there's a man standing next to you, then your freedom automatically is seen as offensive and violent
So, in all things artistic that are on display or available for public viewing, is what we are doing hurting someone around us? Is the exercise of my freedom at the detriment of someone's values or beliefs??
my audience for these books are coptic youth from the ages of 15 to however old... the children have their own books, lol in which i do not mention anything about sex... my stories are for youth that mess up, who went through the life of sin... but yet God is there to accept us back, I'm not glamorizing fornication by anyway... I'm just telling the youth God loves you, even if your sins were so horrid! so really I am writing for these youth that for example who lost their virginity before marriage, they can know that God is there to forgive and forget... but with true repentance! so in my stories nobody runs away from the temptation... but rather falls in it! if everyone thought the same way, then your question can easily be answered! but as the sword is double edged, so is the pen! I'm sure some youth will read the story and get the message right away... and some will read it or watch it, and it wouldn't click with them! but for example in one of my stories I talk about how there is no time... a person can die anytime with their sin... and be tormented for eternity... and because its about youth, I'm putting no age criteria to death! but due to this story some people will see it and say this will never happen... so that brings me back to the sword is double edged, the pen is a sword... I didn't make to the main stream yet... but hopefully in due time and according to God's mighty will! but hopefully if I make it to Hollywood, in my opinion there is a good message much better than many of the movies coming out now! when I wrote the story of saint Mary, I didn't encourage prostitution... I just talked about her life as a prostitute... and its a modern day story, so it starts by her dating... she gives her virginity away by the age of seventeen... and I escalate from there, about a Coptic non virgin in California... and how as a youth she just went on with it, and as saint Mary, she did it for the "ACTION" not for the money... but yet her life style will lead her to her salvation! and how sweet repentance is... but her life of repentance is about 3 chapters... while there are 20+ chapters that are talking about her life from birth to repentance! its a novel, don't forget that, so there is love, suspense, everything that will catch the readers' thought! so you be the judge! I always have a message from my writing... I don't just talk about two people having sex... I'm not writing a passion novel, or an adult novel... I'm writing a rated PG15 story... and I can guarantee you 250 percent there is nothing new that the youth have not seen/heard in person... or on tv! I don't need to exercise freedom of speech... if you know me, you'd know if there is something on my mind, I WILL SAY IT... so I didn't write all these novels to freedom of speech... the only reason I started writing, is when I was in the protestant churches all I wanted to achieve is a church full of youth... they did that by acting plays, and whenever I saw their plays, I always thought I can do better! so I said i will start a something new... and I remember i went bought a new notebook, and a new pen... because they were my sacrifice and I didn't want it to previously have been used for anything, but the action of God!!! it was intended for the Coptic church only but do to church politics and "priest drama" I started working on the play to be for the Orthodox churches... then due to it being self funded I made it for all Christians yet focusing on heavily populated Egyptian areas... and do to the amount of work... I stopped... and now producers heard about it... and that's how its a nationwide "everybody" story about Coptic youth! when I write something I well research it... and I make sure its well with the dogma, if you read anything in my plays, novels or anything I write, it does not hurt the coptic church by anyway... but talking to the youth about how something so small might escalate, and hurt us in the end... and the fact that not all copts are virgins! but when it comes to dogma and beliefs I make sure I pay VERY close attention to it!
also may I add there are many priests that read my stuff... and all they disagreed on is a maybe a line or two in the whole thing, they were worried about the comfort of the audience, yet they see worse in movies! but the reason I mention that is that non of the dogma or beliefs I have in my work is criticized by the priests!
another thing is in one of my plays I had a kissing scene, that's what pushed my priests away from even reading it! which I did remove, but is back now that its being produced!
nakhod el baraka... neshkor Allah!
I'm just curious.
________________
California Criminal Defense Attorney
Thanks for the briefing QT_PA_2T. What the church rules to be changed in this movie? I don't exactly get the point.
from what i have heard, the movie was banned already.
If only people would listen to the BIBLE.
If your spouse commits adultery, only then can you divorce.